If CJ were to be traded, who are we most likely to get?

[illmatic99]

They need to be good next year. And if Nurk is gone the year after, they need to be able to replace him. Where's the money to get that guy coming from? 100 million will be tied to three players in Dame/Simmons/Powell. Salary cap will be ~110 million. Plus, each year that passes is one year older for Dame.

Also, I can't believe you can watch what's happening in the playoffs these last two years and not be concerned about offense. The teams that are struggling are the ones that can't push the right buttons on offense. No successful lineup has more than one non-shooter, and Simmons makes it that much harder to field competitive offensive lineups because having him out there means you can't play your big men who are usually non-shooters. Philly should not be down 3-2 right now to Atlanta, but they are because Simmons is a net negative on offense.

Simmons has had a horrific series. But he's not a career 30% FT shooter. if he even shoots 50% (he's a career 60% shooter) , they're already in the ECFs. You really think THIS is who he is? If Morey is as impulsive as their fanbase seems to be, it would be the absolute PERFECT opportunity to acquire a undervalued asset.

And let's not underestimate the impact Doc Rivers has had on this series. Getting out coached by McMillan is no easy feat but he's managed to do it.

 

[boredinsalem]

If Philly loses, trades involving Simmons will be available.

I think it's more likely that Philly doesn't want to sell low and tries to recalibrate by surrounding him with shooters (like CJ). I think the more viable trade is probably CJ + Jones for Tobias Harris and Thybulle. I think we'd be a much better team with that deal, but definitely hemmed into counting on Tobias/Powell/Nurk as our 2/3/4 (in whatever order).

But the potential with Ben is too tantalizing for me-- this idea of pairing him with Dame is not about what Ben is like now. I still think he can be unlocked similar to how Westbrook was by D'Antoni right before the pandemic hit.

Agreed on this point (especially with D'Antoni). I think he's shown that he can utilize a non-shooter if he offers other skills (in Russ' case, getting to the cup and running the fast break). I could see Derozan being a cheaper fit in a role like that. D'Antoni could surround him with shooters and defenders (Simons, Collins) and let him murder in a second unit (while picking up fouls on the opposing bigs).

 

[illmatic99]

Agreed on this point (especially with D'Antoni). I think he's shown that he can utilize a non-shooter if he offers other skills (in Russ' case, getting to the cup and running the fast break). I could see Derozan being a cheaper fit in a role like that. D'Antoni could surround him with shooters and defenders (Simons, Collins) and let him murder in a second unit (while picking up fouls on the opposing bigs).

In lineups with Dame, Simmons is Draymond.

In lineups without Dame, Simmons is a suped-up form of Ricky Rubio who is 6'10.

 

[MickZagger]

I just don’t see us getting much for him. Unless he’s packaged with younger guys like nas and Simons.

That contract is awful.

 

[B-Roy]

Simmons has had a horrific series. But he's not a career 30% FT shooter. if he even shoots 50% (he's a career 60% shooter) , they're already in the ECFs. You really think THIS is who he is?

And let's not underestimate the impact Doc Rivers has had on this. Getting out coached by McMillan is no easy feat but he's managed to do it.

Simmons is a HUGE reason why their offense is dying in the 4th. It's not just him missing free throws. He clogs the lane for their best player and does NOTHING when the ball is out of his hands. He will be this player on any other team. That means he has to play small ball center in close games. You need big wings they can shoot next to him. Even the Milwaukee series is showing the limits of what you can do with a guy that can't shoot, no matter how good he is at other parts of the game.

Bottom line is they shouldn't be down 3-2. This should have been an easy 4-1 victory for Philly.

And yeah, he's probably not THIS bad, but I do think he was a bit overrated by the collective NBA hivemind before these playoffs. He's literally the same player he was 4 years ago, and he's got clear mental issues on the floor. Needs the right coach/players to get the most out of him. I think Dame could do it, but if the rest of the roster around him sucks, there's no point. Need to field a competitive roster around those two now.

 

[illmatic99]

Bottom line is they shouldn't be down 3-2. This should have been an easy 4-1 victory for Philly.

there is a reason why this idea is even a conversation right now. it's the kind of a high risk opportunity that can catapult us from a middling playoff team to a contender. (and to be honest, what's the risk here? Us losing in round 1 of the playoffs again with CJ?)

you keep mentioning adding to Dame/Powell/Simmons/Nurk.

I think that's a championship roster as is with the right coach and Simmons unlocking his full potential. We know who CJ is. We don't know who Simmons can be.

 

[B-Roy]

Agreed on this point (especially with D'Antoni). I think he's shown that he can utilize a non-shooter if he offers other skills (in Russ' case, getting to the cup and running the fast break). I could see Derozan being a cheaper fit in a role like that. D'Antoni could surround him with shooters and defenders (Simons, Collins) and let him murder in a second unit (while picking up fouls on the opposing bigs).

Westbrook was unlocked by Houston going super small and trading their best big for RoCo, not because of anything crazy D'Antoni did. Morey (and probably D'Antoni) realized you can't play 2 non-shooters, so they took pennies on the dollar for Capela, only to get pounded in the second round by the Lakers anyways.

Having one of your best players be a non-shooter is a problem. Ask any team that has had to deal with Westbrook, Simmons and Giannis.

 

[boredinsalem]

Westbrook was unlocked by Houston going super small and trading their best big for RoCo, not because of anything crazy D'Antoni did. Morey (and probably D'Antoni) realized you can't play 2 non-shooters, so they took pennies on the dollar for Capela, only to get pounded in the second round by the Lakers anyways.

Having one of your best players be a non-shooter is a problem. Ask any team that has had to deal with Westbrook, Simmons and Giannis.

Russ getting COVID pre-bubble didn't help. That team in the time between the Capela trade and the bubble was very fun to watch. D'Antoni did a lot of creative shit with Russ initiating the offense from the post, it wasn't just a matter of removing the center and running the same stuff.

 

[B-Roy]

you keep mentioning adding to Dame/Powell/Simmons/Nurk.

I think that's a championship roster as is with the right coach and Simmons unlocking his full potential. We know who CJ is. We don't know who Simmons can be.

You really think that's a championship roster? I see Dame, Simmons and Powell. Nurk will get played off the floor in the playoffs. Doesn't really seem that much different to me than Steph/Draymond/Wiggins. I guess that's where our differences lie. The rest of the roster sucks.

Again, the whole we don't know who Simmons can be thing still overrates him. Sometimes when a player tells you who he is, you should take him at his word. I see no path to him making a significant jump unless he develops a jump shot, and I'm not going to bet that he's going to develop a jump shot. How much better can he be if he doesn't develop a jump shot really? I mean, the potential with him is that if he DOES get a jump shot, it will unlock every other aspect of his game. I just don't see that happening. So at best he's just Draymond.

And again, I'd move CJ + Some picks for him because I think that makes our team better. I think replacing CJ AND RoCo with Simmons makes it worse, and I don't want to do that with Dame on the clock.

 

[illmatic99]

So at best he's just Draymond.

you say that like it's a bad thing. Draymond was 2nd team All NBA in his peak.

No combo of CJ+Roco can reach that level.

 

[illmatic99]

Russ getting COVID pre-bubble didn't help. That team in the time between the Capela trade and the bubble was very fun to watch. D'Antoni did a lot of creative shit with Russ initiating the offense from the post, it wasn't just a matter of removing the center and running the same stuff.

he stopped shooting any shots outside of the paint for like 2 months, and that was 100% MDA's doing.

 

[B-Roy]

Russ getting COVID pre-bubble didn't help. That team in the time between the Capela trade and the bubble was very fun to watch. D'Antoni did a lot of creative shit with Russ initiating the offense from the post, it wasn't just a matter of removing the center and running the same stuff.

The point is, it's hard to have one of your best players be a non-shooter. You have to do weird shit with the rest of the roster in order to get the most out of this one player. I don't trust Olshey to do that.

 

[B-Roy]

you say that like it's a bad thing. Draymond was 2nd team All NBA in his peak.

No combo of CJ+Roco can reach that level.

I mean Draymond now. Peak Draymond had a jumpshot.

 

[calvin natt]

there is a reason why this idea is even a conversation right now. it's the kind of a high risk opportunity that can catapult us from a middling playoff team to a contender. (and to be honest, what's the risk here? Us losing in round 1 of the playoffs again with CJ?)

you keep mentioning adding to Dame/Powell/Simmons/Nurk.

I think that's a championship roster as is with the right coach and Simmons unlocking his full potential. We know who CJ is. We don't know who Simmons can be.

Hold up. That foursome wins a championship? Between Simmons and Nurkic I’d be terrified if that group had to win a close championship game/series

 

[illmatic99]

 

[B-Roy]

Great, he dominated our shitty defense. What happens in the playoffs against good defenses? I mean, he's not even doing this to Atlanta.

 

[Natebishop3]

I would 100% trade CJ for Simmons... but I want to keep RoCo. Those two can be interchangeable at forward.

Dame
Powell
RoCo
Simmons
Nurk

I'm not against trading Nurk, but I really want to see what he can do in a new system. With that said, I really wish he could shoot the three.

 

[illmatic99]

Hold up. That foursome wins a championship? Between Simmons and Nurkic I’d be terrified if that group had to win a close championship game/series

with the right coach and simmons regaining his confidence, ya. think the pieces are there. Simmons' ceiling is a top 20 player. Dame was maybe the 5th best player this past year.

I believe that's the framework for a title team when you put a decent supporting cast and a great coach with two top 20 guys whose games would fit with each other perfectly.

 

[TBpup]

i think nurk is gone in a year or so, tbh.

But the potential with Ben is too tantalizing for me-- this idea of pairing him with Dame is not about what Ben is like now. I still think he can be unlocked similar to how Westbrook was by D'Antoni right before the pandemic hit.

That said, we keep on talking about offense incessantly. The main impact is what he could allow us to do defensively.

And as @boredinsalem posted, it would be interesting to see what someone of D'Antoni's inovation would do with Dame/Powell/Simmons/RoCo/Powell or some other somewhat similar itteration of Simmons coming to Portland with Dame.

 

[Natebishop3]

Simmons is EXACTLY the kind of buy-low star that we should be trying to get.

I would love to get Middleton but I think his stock is rising too high.

 

[Natebishop3]

 

[Natebishop3]

To me, Butler is the dude. His attitude and his defense would change this team over night.

Dame
Norm
Butler
RoCo
Nurk

That's a squad.

Let Simmons go play with Bam. They are both young guys and they fit the same window.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Simmons is EXACTLY the kind of buy-low star that we should be trying to get.

I would love to get Middleton but I think his stock is rising too high.

We really need Simmons and Philly to embarrass themselves tonight. Still, an unlikely trade scenario...... but you never know.
He would solve a few deficiencies for sure. He can defend 4 positions, start at either forward position and play back up PG.

 

[Natebishop3]

We really need Simmons and Philly to embarrass themselves tonight. Still, an unlikely trade scenario...... but you never know.
He would solve a few deficiencies for sure. He can defend 4 positions, start at either forward position and play back up PG.

It's funny because the teams that I would actually want to go to the finals are the ones I'm rooting to lose because I want them to make a trade.

Milwaukee
Philly
LAC (actually I would never root for them to win)

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Simmons is EXACTLY the kind of buy-low star that we should be trying to get.

I would love to get Middleton but I think his stock is rising too high.

TBH, I think Siakam is the best fit out of all the names being thrown around. Simmons has the highest ceiling however. Middleton is more of a 2 than a 3 but he's a great fit as well despite his size.

 

[Natebishop3]

TBH, I think Siakam is the best fit out of all the names being thrown around. Simmons has the highest ceiling however. Middleton is more of a 2 than a 3 but he's a great fit as well despite his size.

I would take literally any of those guys though lol

 

[Chris Craig]

TBH, I think Siakam is the best fit out of all the names being thrown around. Simmons has the highest ceiling however. Middleton is more of a 2 than a 3 but he's a great fit as well despite his size.

But, CJ probably won't bring someone like Soaking or even Simmons in return. If Walker is any indication, the Blazers will have to send out a pick with CJ just to get someone who is about to retire, a young prospect, and a future 2nd. Ugh

 

[Natebishop3]

But, CJ probably won't bring someone like Soaking or even Simmons in return. If Walker is any indication, the Blazers will have to send out a pick with CJ just to get someone who is about to retire, a young prospect, and a future 2nd. Ugh

Eh......... I don't think his value is THAT bad.

CJ is just better than him.



Like.... it's not even close.



Kemba was also HORRIBLe in the playoffs.

 

[Natebishop3]

I get that people are frustrated with CJ, and he didn't have a great playoff series, but the dude averaged 23ppg, 5 assists, and 4 rebounds on 46% from the field and 40% from three. Those are NOT bad numbers. Those are arguably All-Star numbers. He's not even old. He just doesn't fit with this team. The guy has value.

 

[RR7]

Those are arguably All-Star numbers.

In 5...4...3...