OT "I'm Dealing With A Few Transgender Issues"

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Natebishop3 said:
So here is my question....

Do you think that this has something to do with biology, or do you think it's something more spiritual? You mentioned "the shape of your soul" and I'm genuinely curious if our souls could be inherently male or female...

I'm not really religious, but I believe that there's something.... I like the idea of the force.... I believe we definitely have an energy. I believe all living things do. I refuse to accept that my dog is just an animal. He has a personality. He has a soul... whatever that means... I'm going to miss him terribly when he's gone (which will unfortunately be very very soon.)

I have always wondered about what makes us different.... how much of what makes us who we are is from our upbringing and how much are we just born with.
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Animals have plenty of personality; heck even fish play with humans given the opportunity. Finding out recently that trees communicate and help each other through their root systems leads me to believe life thrives on interconnected communication. We're just the only ones with credit ratings, so we think we're special.

I was quite Christian up until I was 18, so I put it in those words as a way of being consistent with who I was back then. By 14, I was thinking of it as "self image" more than "soul", something I could feel when I was alone in a quiet place and closed my eyes. It was more and more... disconcerting to feel that girl stay the same size and shape while my body grew bigger around her like a suit of armor I didn't want to wear. Transition has done a lot of things for me but I'll never be 5'6". This is why starting puberty blockers *before* puberty starts is important. When I was 12, I was 5'6"; when I was 15, I was 6'0". Even at 15, my transition would have been compromised. Kids these days should haven't to compromise like that.
 
Natebishop3 said:
So here is my question....

Do you think that this has something to do with biology
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I forgot to tackle this part of the question, but it's so important it deserves its own reply anyway.

I'm curious about this too, but the question itself is incredibly fraught; we don't like to talk about biology. Trans bodies are highly politicized right now, and when politics intersects with science, you get a lot of things like treating conditions that aren't actually maladies as if they were, and then trying to "cure" them. But when a condition is about your entire body, the cure is to prevent that body from existing.

In short, a lot of people would love to find the biological source of transness, and make sure it can be screened for and eventually eliminated. And that's a really tough thing to talk about because, on one hand the boy that would have been born in my place would never have felt the sadness and dysphoria at not being congruent with his body. But on the other hand, it feels like using science to avoid dealing with a societal problem, which is that of acceptance.

It's eugenic in nature.

And it's a philosophy question that a lot of trans people talk about among themselves; we generally consider it an "inside topic" that we can't really let the general cis population get ahold of, because it opens some really deep vulnerabilities.

Those of us who are trans now are fighting a war for kids who hopefully will have it easy, getting medicine and proper puberties and surgeries as needed in discrete, undramatic ways. And we know those kids will view us as ugly and monstrous because of our compromised bodies and weird, ludicrous dignity in the face of being ugly, because they will never have to look on a trans body that had the wrong puberty. We will be the veterans who die out, as the definition of trans changes so much as to become an archaic term, because medicine and acceptance will have evolved to the point where "trans" as a concept is just... gone.

And when it's gone, there will be a culture that is lost. Transness is a weird graffiti mural on the side of a building; some see it as ugly and illegal, but others see it as beautiful and artistic, the ultimate self-expression in opposition to standards and expectations. That part makes me really sad, and secretly, selfishly hope there isn't a discernible biological aspect to it, because then that culture doesn't go away altogether. It's a horrible future to wish upon countless children, just to keep having a culture I recognize. I hate myself a little when I think about it.

This is why we don't talk about biology. Because it is never just about biology.
 
YamTastic said:
I forgot to tackle this part of the question, but it's so important it deserves its own reply anyway.

I'm curious about this too, but the question itself is incredibly fraught; we don't like to talk about biology. Trans bodies are highly politicized right now, and when politics intersects with science, you get a lot of things like treating conditions that aren't actually maladies as if they were, and then trying to "cure" them. But when a condition is about your entire body, the cure is to prevent that body from existing.

In short, a lot of people would love to find the biological source of transness, and make sure it can be screened for and eventually eliminated. And that's a really tough thing to talk about because, on one hand the boy that would have been born in my place would never have felt the sadness and dysphoria at not being congruent with his body. But on the other hand, it feels like using science to avoid dealing with a societal problem, which is that of acceptance.

It's eugenic in nature.

And it's a philosophy question that a lot of trans people talk about among themselves; we generally consider it an "inside topic" that we can't really let the general cis population get ahold of, because it opens some really deep vulnerabilities.

Those of us who are trans now are fighting a war for kids who hopefully will have it easy, getting medicine and proper puberties and surgeries as needed in discrete, undramatic ways. And we know those kids will view us as ugly and monstrous because of our compromised bodies and weird, ludicrous dignity in the face of being ugly, because they will never have to look on a trans body that had the wrong puberty. We will be the veterans who die out, as the definition of trans changes so much as to become an archaic term, because medicine and acceptance will have evolved to the point where "trans" as a concept is just... gone.

And when it's gone, there will be a culture that is lost. Transness is a weird graffiti mural on the side of a building; some see it as ugly and illegal, but others see it as beautiful and artistic, the ultimate self-expression in opposition to standards and expectations. That part makes me really sad, and secretly, selfishly hope there isn't a discernible biological aspect to it, because then that culture doesn't go away altogether. It's a horrible future to wish upon countless children, just to keep having a culture I recognize. I hate myself a little when I think about it.

This is why we don't talk about biology. Because it is never just about biology.
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Maybe biology isn't even the right word..... Like you said, you knew at a young age. Most of my gay friends also told me that they knew at a young age. Almost like it's something that was coded into their DNA. Part of who they are at the most foundational level.

If you're not spiritual at this point in your life, I understand and I'm not sure if exploring the concept of the soul makes sense. I just wonder if reincarnation is at all possible, and if so, is it possible that our souls could be inherently male or female? Masculine or feminine?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Maybe biology isn't even the right word..... Like you said, you knew at a young age. Most of my gay friends also told me that they knew at a young age. Almost like it's something that was coded into their DNA. Part of who they are at the most basic level.
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On a purely intellectual level, I tend to agree with this hypothesis; I'm just terrified it'll be used to eugenics us into non-existence.

If you're not spiritual at this point in your life, I understand and I'm not sure if exploring the concept of the soul makes sense. I just wonder if reincarnation is at all possible, and if so, is it possible that our souls could be inherently male or female? Masculine or feminine?
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I'll give you this, which I didn't really want to discuss too in-depth because I feel it muddies the waters... I am non-binary; I consider myself "mostly a girl" but not entirely. My pronouns are she/they (this means you can use either, and it's nice if you alternate or don't stick with one or the other too much). Also, I am a genetic chimera; at some point in my mom's pregnancy, I absorbed my fraternal twin. I know this in the dumbest way possible: I have both kinds of earwax.

Earwax is genetic; there's a very simple one-or-the-other genetic marker for it. You either have flaky earwax or gooey earwax. But, in me, one ear is gooey and the other is flaky. I'm also slightly asymmetrical, one ear is smaller than the other (I have to use two wildly different earbud sizes).

So, the question that I have pondered for a while is, "did this have something to do with my being trans?" Not just from a biological standpoint, but from a metaphysical one... Which one am I? Was the absorbed twin XY or XX? Which one was the twin that did the absorbing? Am I both? I doubt I'd have thought much about this if I wasn't trans. Is half my brain the other twin's? If so, do I have more than one personality?

Bodies are weird, man.
 
YamTastic said:
On a purely intellectual level, I tend to agree with this hypothesis; I'm just terrified it'll be used to eugenics us into non-existence.



I'll give you this, which I didn't really want to discuss too in-depth because I feel it muddies the waters... I am non-binary; I consider myself "mostly a girl" but not entirely. My pronouns are she/they (this means you can use either, and it's nice if you alternate or don't stick with one or the other too much). Also, I am a genetic chimera; at some point in my mom's pregnancy, I absorbed my fraternal twin. I know this in the dumbest way possible: I have both kinds of earwax.

Earwax is genetic; there's a very simple one-or-the-other genetic marker for it. You either have flaky earwax or gooey earwax. But, in me, one ear is gooey and the other is flaky. I'm also slightly asymmetrical, one ear is smaller than the other (I have to use two wildly different earbud sizes).

So, the question that I have pondered for a while is, "did this have something to do with my being trans?" Not just from a biological standpoint, but from a metaphysical one... Which one am I? Was the absorbed twin XY or XX? Which one was the twin that did the absorbing? Am I both? I doubt I'd have thought much about this if I wasn't trans. Is half my brain the other twin's? If so, do I have more than one personality?

Bodies are weird, man.
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Hmm.... that's an interesting theory. I wonder if there has been any analysis on the number of gay twins. I was friends for many years with a set of twins that I met in theater. One gay (although he didn't come out until college) and the other straight. I have often wondered if there's any kind of connection. I was happy for him when he finally came out because his family embraced him. I was a little scared because his family is extremely religious and I wasn't sure how they would react. They were all there at his lovely wedding.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Hmm.... that's an interesting theory. I wonder if there has been any analysis on the number of gay twins. I was friends for many years with a set of twins that I met in theater. One gay (although he didn't come out until college) and the other straight. I have often wondered if there's any kind of connection. I was happy for him when he finally came out because his family embraced him. I was a little scared because his family is extremely religious and I wasn't sure how they would react. They were all there at his lovely wedding.
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There have definitely been many studies on that, but I'm not really too interested in delving deeper into it; I've mentioned a couple times now why I'm not super comfortable with questions of biology. I know you mean no harm, and I definitely suggest you investigate yourself, but I can't really lead you there.
 
If one of a pair of identical twins is gay, there is a higher than average probability the other one will be but it's not absolute.

I am less concerned with why I am a lesbian and Yam transgender then I am with why so many people are so invested in hating us.
 
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crandc said:
If one of a pair of identical twins is gay, there is a higher than average probability the other one will be but it's not absolute.

I am less concerned with why I am a lesbian and Yam transgender then I am with why do many people are so invested in hating us.
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Fear. Lack of understanding. Brainwashing.

Why do some people hate black people? Or Mexicans? Or northerners.... hate is taught, and it's typically passed down. My mom was a flight attendant so I grew up around gay men. My mom's best friend was a gay man named Scott. He was always "uncle Scott" when he visited. So I was raised with the understanding that gay people are just as normal as anyone else, but a lot of people are not.

I always go back to that story about the black man who converted quite a few members of the KKK simply by befriending them.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I always go back to that story about the black man who converted quite a few members of the KKK simply by befriending them.
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That is kind of what I was portraying in my United We Drive thread. It's amazing how far that can go.
 
crandc said:
If one of a pair of identical twins is gay, there is a higher than average probability the other one will be but it's not absolute.

I am less concerned with why I am a lesbian and Yam transgender then I am with why do many people are so invested in hating us.
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That question has long long mystified me. Why? There's no logical reason other than pure stupidity.
 
Lanny said:
That question has long long mystified me. Why? There's no logical reason other than pure stupidity.
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Divide and conquer has been a means of rule for a long time. Convince people the real problem is gays, immigrants, teaching about racism, Jews, Muslims, Asians... They won't fight for their and others' rights, instead will turn on the designated Other.
 
I lived a block from this church for eight years; I'm really glad I've moved to a different neighborhood if this is what they're going to do to it. It makes me sad to see such a welcome part of the neighborhood go this direction.

https://www.wweek.com/news/2022/03/...-of-portlands-most-progressive-neighborhoods/

Last spring, WW reported that St. Stephen Catholic Church, located in the Sunnyside neighborhood, had terminated its lease with Childswork Learning Center, the largest preschool in Portland.

Childswork vacated the building July 1, 2021. At issue, the preschool’s operators thought, was parking. The church tore down the playground and replaced it with freshly striped parking spaces. At the time, the parish’s attorney told WW the parish had plans for the space “more directly connected to its core ministry.”

That replacement is the rare item that might prove even more contentious in Portland than parking: a religious school with hardline views on gender identity.
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Natebishop3 said:
Well that's hardcore... I wonder if they'll get enough interest. Pretty damn old fashioned and disgusting.
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A lot of conservative institutions are trying more extreme tactics to remain relevant. It's kind of extinction panic; even though so many of the systems in place benefit them, they feel increasing social pressure to go further by the people who remain loyal.
 
YamTastic said:
A lot of conservative institutions are trying more extreme tactics to remain relevant. It's kind of extinction panic; even though so many of the systems in place benefit them, they feel increasing social pressure to go further by the people who remain loyal.
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Pardon this bizarre aside, but MAN I loved Farrell's!!

farrels1-1.jpg
 
YamTastic said:
I went to the one in Eugene when I was in college! It was fun!
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Pardon that pic, but my warped mind raced to a Portland institution that effectively lost its way.

I hope to have a beer with you someday.....and NOT at the Acropolis! Do you drink beer per chance?
 
ABM said:
Pardon that pic, but my warped mind raced to a Portland institution that effectively lost its way.

I hope to have a beer with you someday.....and NOT at the Acropolis! Do you drink beer per chance?
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I'd drink a beer with you for sure!
:cheers:
 
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YamTastic said:
I'd drink a beer with you for sure!
:cheers:
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OK, I'll be out there in late August for a wedding. I already owe @Lanny a steak dinner, so we could grab him and his wife, Orion, and whomever, and make it happen! You're in the Portland area, correct?

Wait!! Is Orion banned in here??
 
ABM said:
OK, I'll be out there in late August for a wedding. I already owe @Lanny a steak dinner, so we could grab him and his wife, Orion, and whoever, and make it happen! You're in the Portland area, correct?
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Yeah, I live in NE right now, but by August I'll be in NW.
 
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