Imagine you are George Zimmerman

[PapaG]

Bingo. If Zimmerman stays in the car as the police told him to do, none of this happens.

The question to be resloved is whether this was bad judgement - or if Zimmerman intended to provoke a violent confrontation. If it's the former, he has to live with what he did. If it's the latter, he should be charged with a crime.

It's sad that some people are rushing to convict him without all the facts. It is even sadder that some people are defending him based on Martin's race and taste in clothing. I wore a sweatshirt to Safeway earlier....I guess some people think I deserve to die because of it. Has this country gone insane?

The police never told Zimmerman to stay in his car. At least get the facts correct.

 

[MickZagger]

This story is juicy. I'm loving how riled up everyone is. In the end justice will be served. I have a good feeling Zimmerman's going to do some jail time.

 

[RR7]

I'm not jumping to conclusions about Martin's actions and motivations, I'm going off the available information. Sure, Zimmerman did make a statement but it is corroborated by his injuries and witness testimony as well. Even if they did, the standard for convicting someone of a crime is to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and it is quite far from this being provable.

You're jumping to the conclusion of what he states when there were no other witnesses, though. There wasn't a witness to say who hit who first, or what actions Zimmerman was partaking before an altercation.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

You're jumping to the conclusion of what he states when there were no other witnesses, though. There wasn't a witness to say who hit who first, or what actions Zimmerman was partaking before an altercation.

Its not jumping to conclusion if he gave an account of what happened and its corroborated by physical evidence.

 

[MickZagger]

Its not jumping to conclusion if he gave an account of what happened and its corroborated by physical evidence.

How do you know the physical evidence corroborated? If Zimmerman was punched in the face or scraped, how do you prove whether it was self defense, or retaliation by the dead black kid?

 

[PapaG]

How do you know the physical evidence corroborated? If Zimmerman was punched in the face or scraped, how do you prove whether it was self defense, or retaliation by the dead black kid?

An eyewitness saw the 'fight'. The same eyewitness that made the DA decide not to press charges, even though the police felt they could. Two of us are arguing based on the available information, and others seems to be using the "what if" argument. "What if" doesn't win cases, and can even be the basis for a malicious prosecution civil suit against the DA and the county.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

How do you know the physical evidence corroborated? If Zimmerman was punched in the face or scraped, how do you prove whether it was self defense, or retaliation by the dead black kid?

He said he approached by Treyvon, punched in the face and was on the ground and Treyvon was smashing his head into the ground.

Police reported noted a broken nose, bloody face and injuries on the back of his head as well as his "back being wet". :MARIS61:

It seems pretty consistent with his version of the story and there is nothing really to prove otherwise. So it would be reasonable to conclude that this is likely what happened.

 

[PapaG]

It's really sad to me how few people here seem to understand the basic requirements for filing criminal charges on a citizen. Then again, Obama did get elected, and will probably be re-elected, so nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[MickZagger]

An eyewitness saw the 'fight'. The same eyewitness that made the DA decide not to press charges, even though the police felt they could.

There was also a witness that heard shrieking and screaming coming from the younger man. Almost as though he was getting smothered by the larger 300lb man.

Zimmerman weighed double what Morgan did. Unless Morgan had a gun, the shooting is not self defense. Its like me getting in a fight with a 100lb unarmed 14 year old and shooting him. Ridiculous. Its clear Zimmerman has mental issues.

 

[PapaG]

He said he approached by Treyvon, punched in the face and was on the ground and Treyvon was smashing his head into the ground.

Police reported noted a broken nose, bloody face and injuries on the back of his head as well as his "back being wet". :MARIS61:

It seems pretty consistent with his version of the story and there is nothing really to prove otherwise. So it would be reasonable to conclude that this is likely what happened.

But what if!!! :MARIS61:

I actually would like to see some of those asking for the DA to ignore the investigatory process and to just file charges to have that happen to them someday, and see how they feel about due process at that point. Due process? What's that? lol

 

[MickZagger]

He said he approached by Treyvon, punched in the face and was on the ground and Treyvon was smashing his head into the ground.

Police reported noted a broken nose, bloody face and injuries on the back of his head as well as his "back being wet". :MARIS61:

It seems pretty consistent with his version of the story and there is nothing really to prove otherwise. So it would be reasonable to conclude that this is likely what happened.

lol, just cause he got his ass kicked doesn't mean it was self defense. Zimmerman started it. There's no other word except for Zimmermans, because there was no witnesses when the fight began.

 

[MickZagger]

It's really sad to me how few people here seem to understand the basic requirements for filing criminal charges on a citizen. Then again, Obama did get elected, and will probably be re-elected, so nothing surprises me anymore.

Those Obama freaks are all just black people apologists.

God bless the white race!

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

There was also a witness that heard shrieking and screaming coming from the younger man. Almost as though he was getting smothered by the larger 300lb man.

Zimmerman weighed double what Morgan did. Unless Morgan had a gun, the shooting is not self defense. Its like me getting in a fight with a 100lb unarmed 14 year old and shooting him. Ridiculous. Its clear Zimmerman has mental issues.

Martin was also in shape and had like a 5" height advantage. He was 160lbs, so Zimmerman was 5'9" 320lbs?

so its:

vs.

Image removed by Denny because the origin site is a malware site.

now?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

lol, just cause he got his ass kicked doesn't mean it was self defense. Zimmerman started it. There's no other word except for Zimmermans, because there was no witnesses when the fight began.

proof? evidence? anything at all?

Your case basically boils down to Treyvon having skittles and he's black, so its a hate crime.

 

[MickZagger]

Martin was also in shape and had like a 5" height advantage. He was 160lbs, so Zimmerman was 5'9" 320lbs?

so its:

vs.

Image removed by Denny because the origin site is a malware site.
now?

I've read Morgan was 140lbs and Zimmerman was pushing 300lbs. I've read mix reports on the size of the two. You ever been in a wrestling match with someone who weighs a significant amount more than you? Like atleast 100lbs?

Its a dramatic difference.

 

[MickZagger]

proof? evidence? anything at all?

Your case basically boils down to Treyvon having skittles and he's black, so its a hate crime.

Where did I ever say it was a hate crime? Thats a strawman. Go back to my first post in this thread. I think Zimmerman is a retard who felt drunk with power and was trying to be a hero. I don't think he intentionally went out to kill a young black kid. But, he's obviously stupid and should never of had a gun.

 

[PapaG]

There was also a witness that heard shrieking and screaming coming from the younger man. Almost as though he was getting smothered by the larger 300lb man.

Zimmerman weighed double what Morgan did. Unless Morgan had a gun, the shooting is not self defense. Its like me getting in a fight with a 100lb unarmed 14 year old and shooting him. Ridiculous. Its clear Zimmerman has mental issues.

Nope. Even Martin's dad said it wasn't Trayvon yelling in the 911 call.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I've read Morgan was 140lbs and Zimmerman was pushing 300lbs. I've read mix reports on the size of the two. You ever been in a wrestling match with someone who weighs a significant amount more than you? Like atleast 100lbs?

Its a dramatic difference.

Initial police report says 160lbs, which is probably what was on his driver's license which is often outdated and he is a growing boy so he's probably bigger. I've read Zimmerman was around 200-250lbs, some accounts have him lost weight as well. Never seen anything suggesting 5'9", 300lbs.
Its probably blob vs. muscle, as you can see.

 

[MickZagger]

Nope. Even Martin's dad said it wasn't Trayvon yelling in the 911 call.

I watched a dateline special about this and two ladies who heard the screams were certain it was coming from a younger guy getting smothered. Asked who they thought the screams came from they said Trayvon Morgan.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Where did I ever say it was a hate crime? Thats a strawman. Go back to my first post in this thread. I think Zimmerman is a retard who felt drunk with power and was trying to be a hero. I don't think he intentionally went out to kill a young black kid. But, he's obviously stupid and should never of had a gun.

Why was he not arrested for gun possession? I don't think Zimmerman is exactly the brightest bulb in the bunch either, which is why I tend to think that he couldn't really come up with a good made up story of events and kept in consistent.

 

[RR7]

Initial police report says 160lbs, which is probably what was on his driver's license which is often outdated and he is a growing boy so he's probably bigger. I've read Zimmerman was around 200-250lbs, some accounts have him lost weight as well. Never seen anything suggesting 5'9", 300lbs.
Its probably blob vs. muscle, as you can see.

listed at 6' on that report, too, not 6'3"

 

[MickZagger]

listed at 6' on that report, too, not 6'3"

Big difference. 6'3" 160lbs is so scrawny. There's no way he was throwing around a 200lb+ man. Zimmerman probably just didn't like the feeling of getting his ass kicked by a younger, smaller guy, knew there was no witnesses so he pulled out his gun and shot him.

 

[PapaG]

Big difference. 6'3" 160lbs is so scrawny. There's no way he was throwing around a 200lb+ man. Zimmerman probably just didn't like the feeling of getting his ass kicked by a younger, smaller guy, knew there was no witnesses so he pulled out his gun and shot him.

Trayvon shouldn't have punched Zimmerman, then. As a scrapper, I'm sure you know that you never know who is holding what, be it a gun or a knife.

Unless the theory now is that Zimmerman attacked Martin first, and then waited until he was getting his ass kicked before pulling out his gun and murdering Trayvon in a hate crime, all as part of a plan to claim self-defense. That makes a lot of sense...

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

listed at 6' on that report, too, not 6'3"

Yeah, probably from his DL which is a year old (did they find ID on him?) so he probably grew in that year since. His weight flucuates in the media between 140-160lbs.

 

[STOMP]

Following him could easily be viewed as threatening, depending on how he was being followed. Again, we don't know. And if Trayvon felt there was reasonable belief of threat, then technically, he had every right to beat Zimmerman, under the same law Zimmerman shot him under.

Again, you can't really prove any of this. And I don't believe a perceived threat would be covered under stand your ground or self defense.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/27/justice/florida-teen-shooting-witnesses/index.html

Benjamin Crump, the Martin family lawyer, says Martin's girlfriend's account of what happened connects the dots and destroys Zimmerman's claims of self-defense.
The girl, who did not want to be identified, said she was on the phone with the teen before the shooting.
When Zimmerman got closer to Martin, she told her boyfriend to run, but Martin told her that he was not going to run, she said.
"What are you stopping me for?" Martin asked Zimmerman, according to the girl.
"What are you doing around here?" Zimmerman asked in response.
The girl said she then got the impression that an altercation was taking place and that someone had pushed Martin, because the headset fell out of his ear, and the phone shut off.

STOMP

 

[RR7]

Do any of the witnesses who saw the fighting describe seeing the gun go off? I know people heard it from inside their house, but seems like the witness the two on the ground, but not one getting shot.

 

[PapaG]

Plus Martin allegedly punched a bus driver a few weeks ago, according to his now-closed Facebook account, so it's not like he wasn't known to be violent.

 

[PapaG]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/27/justice/florida-teen-shooting-witnesses/index.html

Benjamin Crump, the Martin family lawyer, says Martin's girlfriend's account of what happened connects the dots and destroys Zimmerman's claims of self-defense.
The girl, who did not want to be identified, said she was on the phone with the teen before the shooting.
When Zimmerman got closer to Martin, she told her boyfriend to run, but Martin told her that he was not going to run, she said.
"What are you stopping me for?" Martin asked Zimmerman, according to the girl.
"What are you doing around here?" Zimmerman asked in response.
The girl said she then got the impression that an altercation was taking place and that someone had pushed Martin, because the headset fell out of his ear, and the phone shut off.

STOMP

LOL

Well, that clears things up! Derrrr

What the fuck?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Big difference. 6'3" 160lbs is so scrawny. There's no way he was throwing around a 200lb+ man. Zimmerman probably just didn't like the feeling of getting his ass kicked by a younger, smaller guy, knew there was no witnesses so he pulled out his gun and shot him.

Punched him in the face, then lifting his head up and down and smashing it on the ground isn't really that heavy of lifting.

 

[RR7]

Plus Martin allegedly punched a bus driver a few weeks ago, according to his now-closed Facebook account, so it's not like he wasn't known to be violent.

alledgedly, based on some post on his twitter account, he's got a history of violence. Let's ignore Zimmerman's factual history of violence then? One has a KNOWN history of violence. The other has a post on twitter. No charge from a bus driver, nothing else on that.