Is Collins demoted?

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I know you're just being funny Tortured. But in a couple, he may be a bad ass.
I hope so, and yeah I shouldve used the green font. :).

I dont know, Though theres a little truth in the Joke Im not really confident that he’s being developed the right way, but I hope to be wrong.
 
I hope so, and yeah I shouldve used the green font. :).

I dont know, Though theres a little truth in the Joke Im not really confident that he’s being developed the right way, but I hope to be wrong.
The team can only develop so much, it's on the player to get it done.
 
Zach is a very young player who has a lot of ability, but has become very mechanical on the floor. He's thinking instead of doing. It's like there's a mental block right now. Earlier he was just playing and doing what came natural, but now he's slow to process info and defenders are able to give him fits because of the delay. Layman always had the skillset, but it just never materialized. With patience by the franchise, Jake has finally been able to produce on a consistent basis. Maybe Zach needs a period of time to continue to practice hard, work on his game, and be able to watch things develop. Maybe he needs not to be in the permanent rotation at this time. It doesn't mean he's a bust. But like a LOT of "One and Done" college athletes, leaving early isn't always the right thing to do.
It takes a while for good whiskey to evolve!
 
I don't understand people that say Zach hasn't progressed much since last year:

OFFENSIVE EFFICIENCY:
2P% - .455 to .530 (+7.5%)
3P% - .310 to .345 (+3.5%)
FT% - .643 to .798 (+15.5%)
TS% - .475 to .569 (+9.4%)

MISC. OFFENSE (PER 100 POSSESSIONS)
ORtg - 93 to 112 (+19)
PTS - 13.9 to 18.2 (+4.3)
AST - 2.5 to 2.6 (+0.1)
TOV 2.8 to 2.7 (-0.1)
FTA - 2.0 to 4.1 (+2.1)

REBOUNDING (PER 100 POSSESSIONS)
Overall - 10.5 to 11.2 (+0.7)
Offensive - 2.1 to 3.7 (+1.6)
Defensive - 8.4 to 7.5 (-0.9)

DEFENSIVE (PER 100 or ADVANCED)
BLK - 1.1 to 1.5 (+0.4)
STL - 0.6 to 0.7 (+0.1)
DBPM - 0.9 to 0.8 (-0.1)

OTHER ADVANCED STATS
PER - 7.5 to 13.3 (+5.8)
WS/48 - .030 to .105 (+.075)
OBPM - -4.1 to -0.9 (+3.2)
BPM - -3.2 to 0.0 (+3.2)

Zach has seen an increase in nearly every single statistical category, with some of them being sizeable.
 
Whats wild..is some in here who are really amp on Jake & Anfernee cant stand the GM that drafted them. That's ok though!
I think the words out that Neil can draft with the best of them and Jennie Buss knows it, he will become the next GM of the Lakers in a few.
 
I don't understand people that say Zach hasn't progressed much since last year:

OFFENSIVE EFFICIENCY:
2P% - .455 to .530 (+7.5%)
3P% - .310 to .345 (+3.5%)
FT% - .643 to .798 (+15.5%)
TS% - .475 to .569 (+9.4%)

MISC. OFFENSE (PER 100 POSSESSIONS)
ORtg - 93 to 112 (+19)
PTS - 13.9 to 18.2 (+4.3)
AST - 2.5 to 2.6 (+0.1)
TOV 2.8 to 2.7 (-0.1)
FTA - 2.0 to 4.1 (+2.1)

REBOUNDING (PER 100 POSSESSIONS)
Overall - 10.5 to 11.2 (+0.7)
Offensive - 2.1 to 3.7 (+1.6)
Defensive - 8.4 to 7.5 (-0.9)

DEFENSIVE (PER 100 or ADVANCED)
BLK - 1.1 to 1.5 (+0.4)
STL - 0.6 to 0.7 (+0.1)
DBPM - 0.9 to 0.8 (-0.1)

OTHER ADVANCED STATS
PER - 7.5 to 13.3 (+5.8)
WS/48 - .030 to .105 (+.075)
OBPM - -4.1 to -0.9 (+3.2)
BPM - -3.2 to 0.0 (+3.2)

Zach has seen an increase in nearly every single statistical category, with some of them being sizeable.
If Zach increases as much going into next year as he has this year and he plays 25 minutes a game, this is what his stats would look like:
12ppg
6.4reb
1.6ast
55 FG%
38 3P%
87 FT% (Half-Improvement)

PER - 19.1
BPM - 2.0 (Half Improvement Offensively, Slight Improvement Defensively

I don't understand why people are so discouraged with him this season. So many people say he hasn't developed as hoped and think he's a bust already... Two more season developing like this and he'll be a star-level player.
 
Whats wild..is some in here who are really amp on Jake & Anfernee cant stand the GM that drafted them. That's ok though!
I think the words out that Neil can draft with the best of them and Jennie Buss knows it, he will become the next GM of the Lakers in a few.
I've always said drafting is Neil's strongest skill and he's good at it, especially in the 2nd round.

It's his condescending attitude, disrespect towards the fanbase (and now Paul Allen), as well as his inability to make legitimate upgrades to the roster via trade or free agency that I have an issue with.
 
If Zach increases as much going into next year as he has this year and he plays 25 minutes a game, this is what his stats would look like:
12ppg
6.4reb
1.6ast
55 FG%
38 3P%
87 FT% (Half-Improvement)

PER - 19.1
BPM - 2.0 (Half Improvement Offensively, Slight Improvement Defensively

I don't understand why people are so discouraged with him this season. So many people say he hasn't developed as hoped and think he's a bust already... Two more season developing like this and he'll be a star-level player.
He’s not a bust yet, but I dont think Zachs going to be a star level player either, he might be that’d be nice. People are dissapointed because there are many other guys Zachs age or younger that are playing better than him.

If I had to guess I would say Zachs upside is a quality starter level guy, he may be more than that but I dont really see it at this point.

I really wonder what Zach would look like if he was on a bad team that featured him more. Im sure part of the reason for the perception many fans have of Zach is that he is on a good team and he’s like the 8th guys in the rotation. Say you switched him to atl for John Collins (since everyone says we drafted the wrong guy), Well John’s scoring is going to go way down though he may be more effecient because of getting easier / better looks, Zachs numbers would go up though because he’d be im a different role with a higher priority.
 
He’s not a bust yet, but I dont think Zachs going to be a star level player either, he might be that’d be nice. People are dissapointed because there are many other guys Zachs age or younger that are playing better than him.

If I had to guess I would say Zachs upside is a quality starter level guy, he may be more than that but I dont really see it at this point.

I really wonder what Zach would look like if he was on a bad team that featured him more. Im sure part of the reason for the perception many fans have of Zach is that he is on a good team and he’s like the 8th guys in the rotation. Say you switched him to atl for John Collins (since everyone says we drafted the wrong guy), Well John’s scoring is going to go way down though he may be more effecient because of getting easier / better looks, Zachs numbers would go up though because he’d be im a different role with a higher priority.
So do you think he's improved a lot this year? Do you think he wont continue this rate of improvement?
 
So do you think he's improved a lot this year? Do you think he wont continue this rate of improvement?
I think he’s been much like the rest of the bench very inconsistent. There are games he’s felt like a huge net negative, and games he’s been very good in, well good for a bench player. Id say he’s improved in some areas and in some areas he’s got worse. His fouling, reaching and setting screens seems to be going in the wrong direction. His offensive game seems very good, just under utilized. He’s still really good around the rim defensively, I think he needs to get better at rebounding.

He’ll probably continue to get better, but I dont think he will be at a 20 PER next year so I dont think itll be at that paxe.
 
I think he’s been much like the rest of the bench very inconsistent. There are games he’s felt like a huge net negative, and games he’s been very good in, well good for a bench player. Id say he’s improved in some areas and in some areas he’s got worse. His fouling, reaching and setting screens seems to be going in the wrong direction. His offensive game seems very good, just under utilized. He’s still really good around the rim defensively, I think he needs to get better at rebounding.

He’ll probably continue to get better, but I dont think he will be at a 20 PER next year so I dont think itll be at that paxe.
Fouling is literally the only thing that's gotten worse, but he only fouls 1 extra time for in every 300 possessions, so it's negligible. His rebounding has gotten better, and will continue to get better with added strength. It'd probably be a lot better if he played more C, instead of chasing around stretch or small-ball 4s on the perimeter.

I just think it's funny how people don't think he's improved much and will also say they don't expect him to continue improving as much as he is at the same time.
 
I don't understand people that say Zach hasn't progressed much since last year:

OFFENSIVE EFFICIENCY:
2P% - .455 to .530 (+7.5%)
3P% - .310 to .345 (+3.5%)
FT% - .643 to .798 (+15.5%)
TS% - .475 to .569 (+9.4%)

MISC. OFFENSE (PER 100 POSSESSIONS)
ORtg - 93 to 112 (+19)
PTS - 13.9 to 18.2 (+4.3)
AST - 2.5 to 2.6 (+0.1)
TOV 2.8 to 2.7 (-0.1)
FTA - 2.0 to 4.1 (+2.1)

REBOUNDING (PER 100 POSSESSIONS)
Overall - 10.5 to 11.2 (+0.7)
Offensive - 2.1 to 3.7 (+1.6)
Defensive - 8.4 to 7.5 (-0.9)

DEFENSIVE (PER 100 or ADVANCED)
BLK - 1.1 to 1.5 (+0.4)
STL - 0.6 to 0.7 (+0.1)
DBPM - 0.9 to 0.8 (-0.1)

OTHER ADVANCED STATS
PER - 7.5 to 13.3 (+5.8)
WS/48 - .030 to .105 (+.075)
OBPM - -4.1 to -0.9 (+3.2)
BPM - -3.2 to 0.0 (+3.2)

Zach has seen an increase in nearly every single statistical category, with some of them being sizeable.
Great post. I was going to make a thread revisiting Zach's progress at the break. Still might.
 
Fouling is literally the only thing that's gotten worse, but he only fouls 1 extra time for in every 300 possessions, so it's negligible. His rebounding has gotten better, and will continue to get better with added strength. It'd probably be a lot better if he played more C, instead of chasing around stretch or small-ball 4s on the perimeter.

I just think it's funny how people don't think he's improved much and will also say they don't expect him to continue improving as much as he is at the same time.

Could argue his rebounding might get worse if he had to box out centers when he's clearly not really strong enough to do that consistently yet. I don't like that he's been relegated to a stretch 4 that plays both ends of the floor away from the basket. I think both his offensive game looks better when he's in the post and his defense is better when he's in the paint. You expect every young player to get better, by how much though who knows.
 
His overall numbers this year are better than last season but just to the eye test, he seems to be regressing this year as the season goes on. It started out well, but it's been a while since he strung together a stretch of even solid games.
 
Could argue his rebounding might get worse if he had to box out centers when he's clearly not really strong enough to do that consistently yet. I don't like that he's been relegated to a stretch 4 that plays both ends of the floor away from the basket. I think both his offensive game looks better when he's in the post and his defense is better when he's in the paint. You expect every young player to get better, by how much though who knows.
And even though he's been relegated to a position that's worse for him right now, he's still progressed a lot, and a lot of Blazer fans don't seem to think so.
 
His overall numbers this year are better than last season but just to the eye test, he seems to be regressing this year as the season goes on. It started out well, but it's been a while since he strung together a stretch of even solid games.
When compared to the season as a whole he has regressed but I think it's mental and due to him playing a lot more PF and his role not being steady.
 
Here are some mostly random guys all younger than Zach. I tried to leave out the guys who are obviously on a completely different level than him.
upload_2019-2-9_19-26-28.png

No point really just interesting to look at his numbers next to guys who are kind of his contemporaries in terms of not being drafted too much higher or lower than him.
 

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When compared to the season as a whole he has regressed but I think it's mental and due to him playing a lot more PF and his role not being steady.

That is unfortunate if it is a mental thing. We've already dealt with Meyers on that issue for years.
 
Here are some mostly random guys all younger than Zach. I tried to leave out the guys who are obviously on a completely different level than him.
View attachment 24774

No point really just interesting to look at his numbers next to guys who are kind of his contemporaries in terms of not being drafted too much higher or lower than him.
Curious why Jamal Murray is on that list, ha ha. As you already brought up I wonder how Zach would do starting and having plays run for him without the pressure of having to help his team win games like John Collins and Lauri Markkanen have?
 
Curious why Jamal Murray is on that list, ha ha. As you already brought up I wonder how Zach would do starting and having plays run for him without the pressure of having to help his team win games like John Collins and Lauri Markkanen have?
That list is very random lol. As in it was just names that came to my head. I'm not sure what Murray had to do with it either heh.
I feel like the pro's for Zach is that being like the 8th option most of the looks he gets are pretty clean, so he should be fairly efficient. He obviously doesn't get the benefits of being a higher priority though. I think the most intriguing part of his game (at least on offense) is his post moves, he seems to have really good footwork down there, wonder how he would do if he had more chances down there.
 
That list is very random lol. As in it was just names that came to my head. I'm not sure what Murray had to do with it either heh.
I feel like the pro's for Zach is that being like the 8th option most of the looks he gets are pretty clean, so he should be fairly efficient. He obviously doesn't get the benefits of being a higher priority though. I think the most intriguing part of his game (at least on offense) is his post moves, he seems to have really good footwork down there, wonder how he would do if he had more chances down there.
The pressure part is a huge factor though. John Collins knows he can shoot 20 times in a game and he won't get pulled if he has a cold shooting night. His shots are just shots though, they don't really have any meaning. Zach is playing on a team that is in the upper half of the tough west. Every shot he takes has more importance to the outcome of a game. If he misses a couple shots in a row he might not even get back in the game again, especially with 11 players currently deserving minutes. A bad mistake could be the difference between home court advantage and barely making the playoffs. That's gotta be so much tougher on a young player.
 
The pressure part is a huge factor though. John Collins knows he can shoot 20 times in a game and he won't get pulled if he has a cold shooting night. His shots are just shots though, they don't really have any meaning. Zach is playing on a team that is in the upper half of the tough west. Every shot he takes has more importance to the outcome of a game. If he misses a couple shots in a row he might not even get back in the game again, especially with 11 players currently deserving minutes. A bad mistake could be the difference between home court advantage and barely making the playoffs. That's gotta be so much tougher on a young player.
I would like to say I don't watch nearly enough Atlanta games to know what kind of shot selection JCollins has. :) I honestly don't know if he's thinking about that stuff while playing or not. If so at least part of that is on the coach, can't have your players terrified they might make a mistake...
 
I think he’s been much like the rest of the bench very inconsistent. There are games he’s felt like a huge net negative, and games he’s been very good in, well good for a bench player. Id say he’s improved in some areas and in some areas he’s got worse. His fouling, reaching and setting screens seems to be going in the wrong direction. His offensive game seems very good, just under utilized. He’s still really good around the rim defensively, I think he needs to get better at rebounding.

He’ll probably continue to get better, but I dont think he will be at a 20 PER next year so I dont think itll be at that paxe.
The rebounding will get better when he gets stronger. Right now he just need stay aggressive in the minutes he gets. I like what seen against Utah very aggressive and got cheated on a block against there center that aggressive in needs to bring every game.
 
His overall numbers this year are better than last season but just to the eye test, he seems to be regressing this year as the season goes on. It started out well, but it's been a while since he strung together a stretch of even solid games.

As a subjective observer, it looks to me like he goes through spells where he is out-of-sync and frustrated.
 
Here are some mostly random guys all younger than Zach. I tried to leave out the guys who are obviously on a completely different level than him.
View attachment 24774

No point really just interesting to look at his numbers next to guys who are kind of his contemporaries in terms of not being drafted too much higher or lower than him.
TBF...To be fair Collins was not even a starter in college and certainly not as a Rookie or year two player. His minutes indicate as such.
Some of your better defending centers took a few years to develop i.e. Gasol, D Jordan, Noah, Ibaka just a few. It took those guys a few years to really start to put their mark on the game.
If you watch Z's instinks as a player you can tell he will eventually put it all together and Dames comments about his game is an indicator there is more to Z to come.
 
TBF...To be fair Collins was not even a starter in college and certainly not as a Rookie or year two player. His minutes indicate as such.
Some of your better defending centers took a few years to develop i.e. Gasol, D Jordan, Noah, Ibaka just a few. It took those guys a few years to really start to put their mark on the game.
If you watch Z's instinks as a player you can tell he will eventually put it all together and Dames comments about his game is an indicator there is more to Z to come.
I hope so, have you ever heard Dame say bad things about one of his teammates? Not saying Dame is wrong but it would be extremely out of character for Dame to say much differently about one of his teammates.
I think Ibaka is a pretty good comp, I kind of think that is about where I'd put Zach's ceiling at. Good starting PF/C but not really a star.
 
I hope so, have you ever heard Dame say bad things about one of his teammates? Not saying Dame is wrong but it would be extremely out of character for Dame to say much differently about one of his teammates.
I think Ibaka is a pretty good comp, I kind of think that is about where I'd put Zach's ceiling at. Good starting PF/C but not really a star.
Your right Dame doesnt say bad things about his tmates, but Ive never heard him say that a player could defensive player of the year. I think Dame bench marks all players as to how they stack up in the league.
 
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