Politics January 6th (1 Viewer)

[Chris Craig]

Who were guided and let in the building.

Yeah it was a fucking tour guide. Give me a fucking break.

 

[HailBlazers]

Yeah it was a fucking tour guide. Give me a fucking break.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

So Hillary Clinton snuck into the capitol, opened a secret door, gave tours to innocent Trump supporters, then dressed up as the very same people she just gave tours to and fought with other police and vandalized things.

 

[jonnyboy]

Several people died.

2 heart attacks/strokes, 1 drug overdose and a murder. The murder was the only death that was the result of violence, and it was committed by a capitol police officer against a trumper. 3 of the 4 people who died were trumpers. The 1 other died of a stroke an entire day later. That was the police officer.

They hunted for the VP to hang him

according to who? Will there be attempted murder charges filed?

They trespassed into offices of Congresspeople and senators. They rubbed shit on the walls. They stole things.

All punishable crimes, punish accordingly.

If the Dems had done that, the Republicans would be condemning them and calling them traitors

absolutely, we all know how the narrative works.

If any other president did that, they would be done. In prison probably.

Yes, because Trump is so loved by the establishment and they are willing to pull strings for him. He has so much more sway than any establishment politician, right. Not sure who you think is protecting him. He was a target from the start.

 

[Chris Craig]

2 heart attacks/strokes, 1 drug overdose and a murder. The murder was the only death that was the result of violence, and it was committed by a capitol police officer against a trumper. 3 of the 4 people who died were trumpers. The other died of a stroke after everything was over.

according to who?

All punishable crimes, punish accordingly.

absolutely, we all know how the narrative works.

Yes, because Trump is so loved by the establishment and they are willing to pull strings for him. He has so much more sway than any establishment politician, right. Not sure who you think is protecting him. He was a target from the start.

Several officers were injured. Officer Brian Sicknick died of a stroke after being bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher at the capitol by Trump supporters who were attacking not just him, but all the guards to get in. That's murder

Yes, there were many many crimes committed that day. They should all be punished accordingly.

There are videos of Trump supporters setting up the gallows, chanting hang Mike Pence, and searching for him so they can hang him.

We know how spin works too

Trump is the face of the Republican party now. He has more and more cronies in the Senate and House, in Governor's mansions, etc. Every non Trump supporting Republican is being ridiculed and replaced.

Stop with the bullshit

 

[Phatguysrule]

3 of the 4 people who died were trumpers.

Right. And those responsible for planning, coordinating, and/or partaking in this attack should be held accountable.

Anybody who tried to break in or initiated physical confrontation with the police or staff should spend time in jail.

 

[jonnyboy]

Officer Brian Sicknick died of a stroke after being bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher

This isn’t what happened. You should do research before accusing people of murder, it’s kind of a heavy accusation. There was no indication he died from anything related to the capitol. He died of natural causes a day later. You’re wording to sound like he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. Not what happened. What about the unarmed woman who was shot dead through a locked door? Your heart doesn’t bleed for her? Another death at the hands of a trigger happy policeman?

I’m confused as to what exactly you want to happen to all these people who showed up to DC that day. We seem to agree people who committed crimes should be punished, and they are. Do they need to be hung for treason as well? Get to the point.

 

[jonnyboy]

Right. And those responsible for planning, coordinating, and/or partaking in this attack should be held accountable.

Anybody who tried to break in or initiated physical confrontation with the police or staff should spend time in jail.

Pretty much what I said. The gray area seems to be the definition of “held accountable”. Some say trespassing, others say treason. Wide gap there.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Pretty much what I said. The gray area seems to be the definition of “held accountable”. Some say trespassing, others say treason. Wide gap there.

Taking part in an assault on the capital intended to overturn the results of a national election is not simply trespassing... Having a person on the inside who helps the mob gain access shouldn't lessen the severity of the charges.

The mob was a part of the plot and anybody who didn't stop at the original fence line should be charged with a felony and serve jail time.

Anybody involved should have their lives impacted drastically.

 

[Chris Craig]

Taking part in an assault on the capital intended to overturn the results of a national election is not simply trespassing... Having a person on the inside who helps the mob gain access shouldn't lessen the severity of the charges.

The mob was a part of the plot and anybody who didn't stop at the original fence line should be charged with a felony and serve jail time.

Anybody involved should have their lives impacted drastically.

Yes, it's called conspiracy

 

[Chris Craig]

This isn’t what happened. You should do research before accusing people of murder, it’s kind of a heavy accusation. There was no indication he died from anything related to the capitol. He died of natural causes a day later. You’re wording to sound like he was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. Not what happened. What about the unarmed woman who was shot dead through a locked door? Your heart doesn’t bleed for her? Another death at the hands of a trigger happy policeman?

I’m confused as to what exactly you want to happen to all these people who showed up to DC that day. We seem to agree people who committed crimes should be punished, and they are. Do they need to be hung for treason as well? Get to the point.

Yeah the ME said natural causes. Its not a coincidence that he underwent a great level of stress defending the capitol then collapsed and died of a stroke. Cause and effect. Maybe calling it murder was extreme on my part, but those people caused his death.

That unarmed woman was a part of a group that were trying to get to the Senate floor to attack senators. She was warned, many times. She had to have known the consequences of breaking into a federal building and going after senators. Its terrible she died. She brought it on herself.

No, I don't want them to be hanged. I have already said those involved need to go to prison. What happened on the 6th can never happen again.

You want to try and make those who participated seem like innocent people who were merely protesting. That's bullshit and you know it. If it had been the left, you wouldn't be singing the same tune.

 

[jonnyboy]

You want to try and make those who participated seem like innocent people who were merely protesting.

I don’t. I’m just trying to navigate the gray area. I do think the left media is blowing it up too much, absolutely. But I’m also completely willing to admit it wasn’t an innocent protest. It got out of hand. I’m willing to call a riot a riot, unlike some of the media on the left. If there was an organized plot I’d like to know more about it. Seems like alot of dipshits caught mob fever while the doors to the castle simultaneously opened up, and chaos ensued. Doesn’t negate any crimes committed, but it doesn’t exactly scream organized government takeover either. The cops were casually standing on the senate floor with the trespassers more or less waiting for them to get bored and leave, which they eventually did (after stealing shit and fucking shit up). Punish accordingly.

 

[crandc]

Who is this Keith Swank character and what is evidence for his statement?

 

[Chris Craig]

Who is this Keith Swank character and what is evidence for his statement?

A far right candidate running for Congress in Washington State. I have yet to see corroborating evidence on his claim.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

So Hillary Clinton snuck into the capitol, opened a secret door, gave tours to innocent Trump supporters, then dressed up as the very same people she just gave tours to and fought with other police and vandalized things.

It was only a matter of time before her role was discovered. That darn woman is everywhere at once!!!!

 

[noknobs]

A far right candidate running for Congress inWashington State. I have yet to see corroborating evidence on his claim.

He's referring to an argument made by an oath-keeper attorney. After 8 days I've seen nothing else come of it. But I guess Hailblazers thinks that means the rioters had a guided tour.

 

[noknobs]

Some great pictures of the guided tour as citizens engage in legal political discourse:

 

[noknobs]

I don’t. I’m just trying to navigate the gray area. I do think the left media is blowing it up too much, absolutely.

Rioters stormed the capital, injured police offers, searched for members of congress with zip-ties and weapons for the purpose of demanding that Pence and Congress reject the results of a democratic election. How exactly do you blow that up too much? I can only imagine how upset you'd be if democrats were responsible.

 

[theprunetang]

Rioters stormed the capital, injured police offers, searched for members of congress with zip-ties and weapons for the purpose of demanding that Pence and Congress reject the results of a democratic election. How exactly do you blow that up too much? I can only imagine how upset you'd be if democrats were responsible.

Which is why I no longer interact with any poster here who minimalizes what happened and tries to brush it away or defend it. They can post all they want, and they will get no interaction from me, as if they don't exist. Not worth talking with or debating with.

 

[jonnyboy]

How exactly do you blow that up too much?

By claiming it was a carefully organized conspiracy to overthrow the government. Or by saying it was as bad as 9/11 and Pearl Harbor.

I can only imagine how upset you'd be if democrats were responsible.

Lefties rioted all that previous summer in countless cities, caused more deaths, more injuries and more damage, including to federal buildings (oh the humanity) to a degree that’s immeasurable. They literally set a federal building on fire with people inside. Democrats passed all of this off as protesting in the name of social justice and wouldn’t even utter the word “riot”. The media all but encouraged it. People on here downplay it and pull the “capitol building” card when it’s compared to January 6th, as if these buildings suddenly became sacred to them when dipshits were rioting in the name of Trump.

 

[Phatguysrule]

By claiming it was a carefully organized conspiracy to overthrow the government. Or by saying it was as bad as 9/11 and Pearl Harbor.

Lefties rioted all that previous summer in countless cities, caused more deaths, more injuries and more damage, including to federal buildings (oh the humanity) to a degree that’s immeasurable. They literally set a federal building on fire with people inside. Democrats passed all of this off as protesting in the name of social justice and wouldn’t even utter the word “riot”. The media all but encouraged it. People on here downplay it and pull the “capitol building” card when it’s compared to January 6th, as if these buildings suddenly became sacred to them when dipshits were rioting in the name of Trump.

Umm... Nobody was attacking lawmakers in session post election with handcuffs or torture devices at any of the protests.

And they were protesting government oppression... Not the legitimate outcome of a democratic election...

The differences are fairly significant...

 

[jonnyboy]

Umm... Nobody was attacking lawmakers in session post election with handcuffs or torture devices at any of the protests.

And they were protesting government oppression... Not the legitimate outcome of a democratic election...

The differences are fairly significant...

You can guess intent or weigh the reasoning behind a riot all you want but at the end of the day you have to go on what crimes were actually committed.
What was the intent behind setting a building on fire with people inside? Some might surmise it was to burn people alive. Just like you may surmise zip ties are a crude form of handcuffs. The result we end up with is that luckily nobody was burned alive and luckily nobody got zip-tied to death. Address the crimes that were committed.

 

[Phatguysrule]

You can guess intent or weigh the reasoning behind a riot all you want but at the end of the day you have to go on what crimes were actually committed.
What was the intent behind setting a building on fire with people inside? Some might surmise it was to burn people alive. Just like you may surmise zip ties are a crude form of handcuffs. The result we end up with is that luckily nobody was burned alive and luckily nobody got zip-tied to death. Address the crimes that were committed.

Jim Bourg, a Reuters news pictures editor who was at the Capitol that day, tweeted that he heard at least three rioters say they “hoped to find Vice President Mike Pence and execute him by hanging him from a Capitol Hill tree as a traitor.”

The people who lit the fire at the building went to jail. Nobody defended or made excuses for their actions. The other protesters put the fire out and turned them in.

Completely different situations and intentions...

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/zip-cuffs-capitol-riots/



But I guess maybe these zip ties were probably just to keep the potato chips fresh...



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ed-after-citizen-sleuths-idd-them-online/amp/

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

You can guess intent or weigh the reasoning behind a riot all you want but at the end of the day you have to go on what crimes were actually committed.
What was the intent behind setting a building on fire with people inside? Some might surmise it was to burn people alive. Just like you may surmise zip ties are a crude form of handcuffs. The result we end up with is that luckily nobody was burned alive and luckily nobody got zip-tied to death. Address the crimes that were committed.

My recollection is that it was a dumpster on fire that was pushed up next to the building. The intent to set the building on fire might be legit but I don’t believe an actual building fire occurred. That was more Andy Ngo(?) and his right wing media cronies. The left isn’t the only group to exaggerate for dramatic effect…..and you’re comparing apples to oranges anyway.

 

[jonnyboy]

The people who lit the fire at the building went to jail.

For setting fires, not for whatever ‘intent’ they may have had. That’s the point I’m making. The people at the capitol went to jail and are being charged with crimes they actually committed also, not for ‘maybe they were gonna zip tie Mike Pence and hang him’. Maybe they were, luckily we’ll never know. Luckily nobody got burned alive in Portland and the charge was arson and not murder.

But I guess maybe these zip ties were probably just to keep the potato chips fresh..

The fires could’ve just been to keep peaceful protesters warm. I wasn’t denying the zip ties being handcuffs btw. Only saying they never got used, and there isn’t really a crime outlining the possession of zip ties.

 

[donkiez]

For setting fires, not for whatever ‘intent’ they may have had. That’s the point I’m making. The people at the capitol went to jail and are being charged with crimes they actually committed also, not for ‘maybe they were gonna zip tie Mike Pence and hang him’. Maybe they were, luckily we’ll never know. Luckily nobody got burned alive in Portland and the charge was arson and not murder.

The fires could’ve just been to keep peaceful protesters warm. I wasn’t denying the zip ties being handcuffs btw. Only saying they never got used.

If you accidentally run over someone in your car it's a different charge than if you try to run someone over, even if you didn't succeed in running them over. Intent matters.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

For setting fires, not for whatever ‘intent’ they may have had. That’s the point I’m making. The people at the capitol went to jail and are being charged with crimes they actually committed also, not for ‘maybe they were gonna zip tie Mike Pence and hang him’. Maybe they were, luckily we’ll never know. Luckily nobody got burned alive in Portland and the charge was arson and not murder.

The fires could’ve just been to keep peaceful protesters warm. I wasn’t denying the zip ties being handcuffs btw. Only saying they never got used, and there isn’t really a crime outlining the possession of zip ties.

https://apnews.com/article/stewart-...insurrection-70019e1007132e8df786aaf77215a110

 

[jonnyboy]

If you accidentally run over someone in your car it's a different charge than if you try to run someone over, even if you didn't succeed in running them over. Intent matters.

If somebody says they want to run someone over, hops in their car and then doesn’t run anyone over, what is the crime? You could argue intent but nothing happened. That is more along the lines of what I’m arguing. I don’t deny there were a handful of people that day that had bad intentions, I know there were. The problem is this lazy idea that everyone there was on board with the zip tie guy and all working in unison to accomplish the common goal of putting those zip ties to use. It’s not that easy of an open and shut case, sorry. It was chaos that consisted of mostly disorganized dipshits going along with a crowd, like Portland riots or any other. There were certainly a few crazies mixed in, luckily they didn’t do anything. If every member of that large mob (or any) was intent on death and destruction you would’ve certainly seen a lot more death and destruction, not cops standing around and casually corralling people one way or the other while they shit on desks and break windows. You can only charge people for the crimes they committed. If zip tie guy or any others have a manifesto that aligns with what happened that day you could certainly put that intent to use in a legal way. I just haven’t seen any evidence of a coordinated plan. Just a bunch of morons fucking shit up and being opportunistic with open doors.

 

[noknobs]

Which is why I no longer interact with any poster here who minimalizes what happened and tries to brush it away or defend it. They can post all they want, and they will get no interaction from me, as if they don't exist. Not worth talking with or debating with.

Good idea.

 

[Phatguysrule]

For setting fires, not for whatever ‘intent’ they may have had. That’s the point I’m making. The people at the capitol went to jail and are being charged with crimes they actually committed also, not for ‘maybe they were gonna zip tie Mike Pence and hang him’. Maybe they were, luckily we’ll never know. Luckily nobody got burned alive in Portland and the charge was arson and not murder.

The fires could’ve just been to keep peaceful protesters warm. I wasn’t denying the zip ties being handcuffs btw. Only saying they never got used, and there isn’t really a crime outlining the possession of zip ties.

It's illegal to plan on killing somebody. There are witnesses to to people saying that was the plan. As well as assault. As well as kidnapping. As well as torture.

I'm really not sure what your point is. Nobody is suggesting people should be charged for anything they didn't do.