Politics January 6th (1 Viewer)

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jonnyboy said:
If somebody says they want to run someone over, hops in their car and then doesn’t run anyone over, what is the crime? You could argue intent but nothing happened. That is more along the lines of what I’m arguing. I don’t deny there were a handful of people that day that had bad intentions, I know there were. The problem is this lazy idea that everyone there was on board with the zip tie guy and all working in unison to accomplish the common goal of putting those zip ties to use. It’s not that easy of an open and shut case, sorry. It was chaos that consisted of mostly disorganized dipshits going along with a crowd, like Portland riots or any other. There were certainly a few crazies mixed in, luckily they didn’t do anything. If every member of that large mob (or any) was intent on death and destruction you would’ve certainly seen a lot more death and destruction, not cops standing around and casually corralling people one way or the other while they shit on desks and break windows. You can only charge people for the crimes they committed. If zip tie guy or any others have a manifesto that aligns with what happened that day you could certainly put that intent to use in a legal way. I just haven’t seen any evidence of a coordinated plan. Just a bunch of morons fucking shit up and being opportunistic with open doors.
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If you make a plan to do it and then try to carry out the plan but fail it is called attempted murder and possibly conspiracy.

This is not a gray area...
 
Phatguysrule said:
If you make a plan to do it and then try to carry out the plan but fail it is called attempted murder and possibly conspiracy.

This is not a gray area...
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Correct, if and when they put together evidence for this, people will be charged with it. Just not sure there is any or enough to tie it to certain individuals. Some guys saying he heard people say it isn’t enough unfortunately. Not sure why you think a bunch of trump people would be let of easier than anyone else. They’re probably more despised than most, especially by those in the federal justice system.
 
Phatguysrule said:
If you make a plan to do it and then try to carry out the plan but fail it is called attempted murder and possibly conspiracy.

This is not a gray area...
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More Trouble for the FBI in the Whitmer Kidnapping Case
In a stunning move, defense lawyers now want prosecutors to offer immunity not to their clients but to FBI agents and informants.

The media went wild last week after Joe Biden’s Justice Department finally produced a criminal indictment to support the claim that January 6 was an “insurrection” planned by militiamen loyal to Donald Trump: Eleven members of the Oath Keepers, including its founder, Stewart Rhodes, face the rarely used charge of seditious conspiracy for their brief and nonviolent involvement at the Capitol protest that day.

Journalists luxuriated in the news, jeering those of us who had correctly noted that the Justice Department had failed to charge anyone with insurrection or sedition for more than a year.

But the press does not share the same zeal in covering another politically charged investigation: the imploding criminal case against five men accused of plotting to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer in 2020. The kidnapping narrative shares many similarities with their preferred telling of January 6, not the least of which is that alleged militias incited by Trump attempted to carry out a domestic terror attack.

Despite wall-to-wall coverage after the charges in the Michigan case were announced right before Election Day, the corporate media has almost completely memory-holed the abduction caper. Stewart Rhodes is a household name; Stephen Robeson, a convicted felon and the chief FBI informant in the Whitmer case accused of all sorts of malfeasance, is not.

The reason, of course, is that exposing how the FBI set a trap to lure down-on-their-luck men—one of the codefendants referred to Adam Fox, the alleged plot leader, as “Captain Autism”—into their kidnapping ruse would run afoul of the media’s insistence that the government had nothing to do with the events of January 6, despite plenty of proof that hundreds of FBI agents and informants were involved before and during the Capitol protest. (A top FBI official recently refused under oath to say whether FBI agents or assets engaged in or incited violent criminal behavior on January 6.)
 
HailBlazers said:
More Trouble for the FBI in the Whitmer Kidnapping Case
In a stunning move, defense lawyers now want prosecutors to offer immunity not to their clients but to FBI agents and informants.

The media went wild last week after Joe Biden’s Justice Department finally produced a criminal indictment to support the claim that January 6 was an “insurrection” planned by militiamen loyal to Donald Trump: Eleven members of the Oath Keepers, including its founder, Stewart Rhodes, face the rarely used charge of seditious conspiracy for their brief and nonviolent involvement at the Capitol protest that day.

Journalists luxuriated in the news, jeering those of us who had correctly noted that the Justice Department had failed to charge anyone with insurrection or sedition for more than a year.

But the press does not share the same zeal in covering another politically charged investigation: the imploding criminal case against five men accused of plotting to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer in 2020. The kidnapping narrative shares many similarities with their preferred telling of January 6, not the least of which is that alleged militias incited by Trump attempted to carry out a domestic terror attack.

Despite wall-to-wall coverage after the charges in the Michigan case were announced right before Election Day, the corporate media has almost completely memory-holed the abduction caper. Stewart Rhodes is a household name; Stephen Robeson, a convicted felon and the chief FBI informant in the Whitmer case accused of all sorts of malfeasance, is not.

The reason, of course, is that exposing how the FBI set a trap to lure down-on-their-luck men—one of the codefendants referred to Adam Fox, the alleged plot leader, as “Captain Autism”—into their kidnapping ruse would run afoul of the media’s insistence that the government had nothing to do with the events of January 6, despite plenty of proof that hundreds of FBI agents and informants were involved before and during the Capitol protest. (A top FBI official recently refused under oath to say whether FBI agents or assets engaged in or incited violent criminal behavior on January 6.)
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Second person to plead guilty in plot to kidnap Michigan governor

Feb 7 (Reuters) - A second person charged in a plot to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer in 2020 has agreed to plead guilty and testify at a trial in March, according to a federal court filing on Monday.

Kaleb Franks, 27, will plead guilty to kidnapping conspiracy, in a plea deal approved by prosecutors and his lawyers. The charge carries a sentence of up to life in prison.

Franks is scheduled to stand trial in March in U.S. District Court for the Western District of Michigan alongside four others charged in the case and will admit to conspiring from June 2020 to October 2020 to kidnap Whitmer, a Democrat.

In August last year, another man who pleaded guilty to charges stemming from the plot received a sentence of just over six years in prison, after he also agreed to testify against fellow extremists in the "Wolverine Watchmen" militia who were accused in the conspiracy. read more

Ty Garbin was the first to be convicted of scheming to abduct Whitmer from her vacation home. Since the FBI said it uncovered the conspiracy by members of the militia group, more than a dozen men have been charged in state or federal court.

Prosecutors said the suspected participants in the plot sought Whitmer's capture in retribution for wide-ranging public health orders imposed in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/se...lty-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor-2022-02-07/
 
HailBlazers said:
Despite wall-to-wall coverage after the charges in the Michigan case were announced right before Election Day, the corporate media has almost completely memory-holed the abduction caper.
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Interesting timing for a completely invented plot funded by the FBI to be announced to the public. I’m sure it’s coincidental.
 
calvin natt said:
Even coming across as remotely defending the insurrection or downplaying it is fucking atrocious and pathetic. Disgraceful
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Anything short of making false grandiose claims constitutes defending it in your eyes, that’s the problem. Apparently even suggesting that maybe January 6th wasn’t quite as bad as fucking 9/11 or Pearl Harbor is ATROCIOUS!!!!
 
jonnyboy said:
Anything short of making false grandiose claims constitutes defending it in your eyes, that’s the problem. Apparently even suggesting that maybe January 6th wasn’t quite as bad as fucking 9/11 or Pearl Harbor is ATROCIOUS!!!!
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It’s not about a death count. It’s about being attacked by known enemies and then being attacked on our soil by….Americans. When people try to draw comparisons that is what they are talking about. I would think it doesn’t require an explanation but of course it does
 
calvin natt said:
It’s not about a death count. It’s about being attacked by known enemies and then being attacked on our soil by….Americans. When people try to draw comparisons that is what they are talking about. I would think it doesn’t require an explanation but of course it does
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It requires explanation because the claim is so fucking ridiculous, not to mention trivializing to those other events. And it remains ridiculous despite your poor explanation.

“It’s not about death count”

Maybe it is to people who count stupid minor details like that.

A person could compare WW2 to the board game Risk and technically be correct, but they’d still sound like a fucking idiot.
 
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jonnyboy said:
Correct, if and when they put together evidence for this, people will be charged with it. Just not sure there is any or enough to tie it to certain individuals. Some guys saying he heard people say it isn’t enough unfortunately. Not sure why you think a bunch of trump people would be let of easier than anyone else. They’re probably more despised than most, especially by those in the federal justice system.
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I didn't say they would be let off. I fully expect these people to serve sentences relative to the crime, probably to the max considering the gravity of the situation.

And people testifying that they heard you saying you planned on killing somebody while you were carrying weapons and torture devices is certainly enough to be considered evidence once they've proven you were there. No question about it.
 
jonnyboy said:
If somebody says they want to run someone over, hops in their car and then doesn’t run anyone over, what is the crime? You could argue intent but nothing happened. That is more along the lines of what I’m arguing. I don’t deny there were a handful of people that day that had bad intentions, I know there were. The problem is this lazy idea that everyone there was on board with the zip tie guy and all working in unison to accomplish the common goal of putting those zip ties to use. It’s not that easy of an open and shut case, sorry. It was chaos that consisted of mostly disorganized dipshits going along with a crowd, like Portland riots or any other. There were certainly a few crazies mixed in, luckily they didn’t do anything. If every member of that large mob (or any) was intent on death and destruction you would’ve certainly seen a lot more death and destruction, not cops standing around and casually corralling people one way or the other while they shit on desks and break windows. You can only charge people for the crimes they committed. If zip tie guy or any others have a manifesto that aligns with what happened that day you could certainly put that intent to use in a legal way. I just haven’t seen any evidence of a coordinated plan. Just a bunch of morons fucking shit up and being opportunistic with open doors.
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“a handful of people had bad intentions”
 
jonnyboy said:
. Not sure why you think a bunch of trump people would be let of easier than anyone else.
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You’re not sure why? Maybe because every Fucking day we find more and more illegal shit that has gone on and nobody is ever held accountable? Literally each week Trump or one of his cult is found to have done something and nothing happens. You’re subpoenaed! No show. Nothing matters and nobody is held accountable. That’s why.
 
calvin natt said:
You’re not sure why? Maybe because every Fucking day we find more and more illegal shit that has gone on and nobody is ever held accountable? Literally each week Trump or one of his cult is found to have done something and nothing happens. You’re subpoenaed! No show. Nothing matters and nobody is held accountable. That’s why.
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^TDS is real. And even two years after he’s gone it persists. Long TDS perhaps? Must be a terrible condition to live with.
 
jonnyboy said:
By claiming it was a carefully organized conspiracy to overthrow the government. Or by saying it was as bad as 9/11 and Pearl Harbor.

Lefties rioted all that previous summer in countless cities, caused more deaths, more injuries and more damage, including to federal buildings (oh the humanity) to a degree that’s immeasurable. They literally set a federal building on fire with people inside. Democrats passed all of this off as protesting in the name of social justice and wouldn’t even utter the word “riot”. The media all but encouraged it. People on here downplay it and pull the “capitol building” card when it’s compared to January 6th, as if these buildings suddenly became sacred to them when dipshits were rioting in the name of Trump.
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Sorry, can you please provide credible evidence to back up your assertion that Democrats caused more deaths than our Jan. 6 heroes?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Umm... Nobody was attacking lawmakers in session post election with handcuffs or torture devices at any of the protests.
And they were protesting government oppression... Not the legitimate outcome of a democratic election...
The differences are fairly significant...
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The difference is fairly minimal!
bullshit!! They set a government building on fire with people inside!!!!
Now watch it get minimized as.. “oh it was just a molotov cocktail on the outside of a brick building…”
This is why conversing with you and some others on this subject is futile. You are incapable of referring to things impartially.

people in masks set a building… screw it. They tried to set a building on fire ( they did more but I'm actually compromising here) with people inside. How you are downplaying that, is simply disgusting….
The January thing was just as disgusting. But it happened first!!!
So dont minimize one while saying the other was sooo much worse. Or you are simply wrong and i will continue to consider your posts satire…
 
Orion Bailey said:
The difference is fairly minimal!
bullshit!! They set a government building on fire with people inside!!!!
Now watch it get minimized as.. “oh it was just a molotov cocktail on the outside of a brick building…”
This is why conversing with you and some others on this subject is futile. You are incapable of referring to things impartially.

people in masks set a building… screw it. They tried to set a building on fire ( they did more but I'm actually compromising here) with people inside. How you are downplaying that, is simply disgusting….
The January thing was just as disgusting. But it happened first!!!
So dont minimize one while saying the other was sooo much worse. Or you are simply wrong and i will continue to consider your posts satire…
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How did I downplay it? The fire started , the other protestors put the fire out and turned evidence over to the police which helped put the people responsible in jail.

That's literally what happened. And good riddance.

I'm not minimizing anything. I'm glad the responsible individuals are in jail.

This is why it's hard to have a conversation with you.
 
Phatguysrule said:
How did I downplay it? The fire started , the other protestors put the fire out and turned evidence over to the police which helped put the people responsible in jail.

That's literally what happened. And good riddance.

I'm not minimizing anything. I'm glad the responsible individuals are in jail.

This is why it's hard to have a conversation with you.
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revisionist history. At the time it was happening this was not the take at all. Not one person was saying thats treason and they need ot be rooted out and arrested.
There were comments like, no one got hurt, and the people werent in the section that was on fire, etc.

I just did a search and cant find one article showing the arsenists were turned in by the protestors. Link?
Or just more bs?
Also come up with something original bro.
You Re hard to converse with.
No you are
No you are
….

is that what we have devolved to? Instead of proving your points, you just finger point back? Lol

you say they literally did this, then i would think there would be a bunch of links from the liberal media showing how the innocent protestors turned in the criminals?

not finding one link. Sorry.
 
Orion Bailey said:
revisionist history. At the time it was happening this was not the take at all. Not one person was saying thats treason and they need ot be rooted out and arrested.
There were comments like, no one got hurt, and the people werent in the section that was on fire, etc.

I just did a search and cant find one article showing the arsenists were turned in by the protestors. Link?
Or just more bs?
Also come up with something original bro.
You Re hard to converse with.
No you are
No you are
….

is that what we have devolved to? Instead of proving your points, you just finger point back? Lol

you say they literally did this, then i would think there would be a bunch of links from the liberal media showing how the innocent protestors turned in the criminals?

not finding one link. Sorry.
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Who do you think took the videos which were used as evidence? The Proud Boys? It was very clear when the Proud Boys were down there. And they weren't there that night.

The commissioner of the fire department said the fires weren't put out by the fire department. The protestors actually had emergency response teams who were putting out fires and giving first aid, etc.

Nobody is defending the idiots starting fires in Portland. Nobody is minimizing them. Dumpster fires are what they are. Trying to burn down a building is arson.

Attacking the nation's capital and beating police in an attempt to obtain and assault lawmakers and overthrow an election is simply different. Far, far different.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Who do you think took the videos which were used as evidence? The Proud Boys? It was very clear when the Proud Boys were down there. And they weren't there that night.

The commissioner of the fire department said the fires weren't put out by the fire department. The protestors actually had emergency response teams who were putting out fires and giving first aid, etc.

Nobody is defending the idiots starting fires in Portland. Nobody is minimizing them. Dumpster fires are what they are. Trying to burn down a building is arson.

Attacking the nation's capital and beating police in an attempt to obtain and assault lawmakers and overthrow an election is simply different. Far, far different.
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So you don't have proof and because you think proud boys didn't take video it was the protestors and they turned them in?

no link? no proof?


Yeah i stand by my first statement. Nothing but satire….
 
jonnyboy said:
^TDS is real. And even two years after he’s gone it persists. Long TDS perhaps? Must be a terrible condition to live with.
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You are 100% correct! TDS is a very real thing and it DOES persist. And it IS a terrible condition to live with, because it’s proof that those in power are never held accountable for their misdeeds. TDS persists because of the incredible damage that asshole did to the American psyche. I honestly wish I could be as cavalier about it as you are, and I struggle to understand how you can be so combative about something so black and white as what happened on January 6th. It was an attempt to overthrow the legally elected government of America, and NO amount of spin or snark by you or anyone else can change the facts. I believe what I saw with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. Apparently the truth hurts your ideology so you deny the reality. No wonder America can’t move forward…….
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
You are 100% correct! TDS is a very real thing and it DOES persist. And it IS a terrible condition to live with, because it’s proof that those in power are never held accountable for their misdeeds. TDS persists because of the incredible damage that asshole did to the American psyche. I honestly wish I could be as cavalier about it as you are, and I struggle to understand how you can be so combative about something so black and white as what happened on January 6th. It was an attempt to overthrow the legally elected government of America, and NO amount of spin or snark by you or anyone else can change the facts. I believe what I saw with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. Apparently the truth hurts your ideology so you deny the reality. No wonder America can’t move forward…….
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Johnnyboy just wants things kept in perspective and for everyone to know that Jan 6th was not worse than a nuclear bomb full of herpes.
 
Trump physician and GOP Rep. Ronny Jackson 'broke legs off chairs to use as clubs and ripped the base off a hand sanitizer dispenser to wield as a baton' to confront Capitol rioters
  • GOP Rep. Ronny Jackson broke up furniture in an effort to defend the House chamber on January 6, according to Jeremy Peters' new book, Insurgency
  • Jackson and two other GOP lawmakers 'broke legs off chairs to use as clubs and ripped the base off a hand sanitizer dispenser stand to wield as a baton'
  • 'They picked up whatever furniture that wasn't bolted down - desks, cabinets, chairs - and piled it up in front of the doors,' the book said
  • Jackson took off his necktie as rioters approached thinking: 'it was best not to give them something to strangle you with'
  • Peters' book provided new details about the events on January 6, including what happened to one of former President Donald Trump's top allies
  • After the attack, Jackson went on to vote against the election results in Pennsylvania prolonging the joint session of Congress to count Electoral votes
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...broke-furniture-confront-Capitol-rioters.html
 
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