Jason Quick "deal for Harris very real"

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STOMP said:
the Lakers got Kobe because he power played his way onto their team. Through his agent he threatened that if any team besides the Lakers held his rights after draft day he would enroll at UNC where he'd been admitted. I heard an interview with NBA scouting director Marty Blake say this prior to that draft in an interview. After the draft multiple GM's relayed the same story including Calipari of the Nets and Twardzic of the Warriors + legendary coach Dean Smith of the Tarheels.

the NBA changed the rules regarding players declaring for the draft to prevent this from happening again

STOMP
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True story.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Ooh, can I play devil's advocate?

Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 5
Scottie Pippen - 6
Robert Parish - 2
Clyde Drexler - 1
Shaquille O'Neal - 4
Kevin Garnett - 1
Pau Gasol - 2
Chauncy Billups - 1

This is fun!
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What's your point? The poster talked of drafted players being "largely responsible" for winning NBA titles. If you have a problem with a player on my list playing a major role on a title team, please discuss that player. I realize that it takes more than one player to win a title; I never claimed otherwise, not did I disparage traded players or FAs who played a large role on a title team.
 
MARIS61 said:
Therefore he was the cancer that prevented Minny from many titles.
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Yep. It's obvious that Garnett needed a Paul Pierce to do the heavy lifting in the Finals. Garnett was always a great regular season player in Minnesota, and even had a #1 seed one season. He just wasn't good enough to bring a team home when it mattered most. He should give thanks every day for being allowed onto Paul Pierce's team.
 
Regarding all the rabble-rousing about drafting or trading for a star to win a title; I think it's pretty clear that teams have almost always had to do BOTH. The trade portion may come on draft day or later in a player's career and sometimes even in their prime, but without that in-house star that a team selected on its own, I can't think of too many championship caliber teams that were composed completely of free agent or trade acquisitions.
 
PapaG said:
What's your point? The poster talked of drafted players being "largely responsible" for winning NBA titles. If you have a problem with a player on my list playing a major role on a title team, please discuss that player. I realize that it takes more than one player to win a title; I never claimed otherwise, not did I disparage traded players or FAs who played a large role on a title team.
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Just saying that it generally takes one of each--a drafted star and an acquired (via trade or free agency) star--in order to win a title. I have what the initial argument was--does anyone?

EDIT: Never mind--just went back and read Blazerboy's silly post from 3 pages back.

blazerboy30 said:
I can't think of many teams that have drafted a player that was largely responsible for winning a championship... can you?
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My apologies, PapaG. Your post was perfect, and mine was nothing more than a strawman.
 
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Nikolokolus said:
Regarding all the rabble-rousing about drafting or trading for a star to win a title; I think it's pretty clear that teams have almost always had to do BOTH. The trade portion may come on draft day or later in a player's career and sometimes even in their prime, but without that in-house star that a team selected on its own, I can't think of too many championship caliber teams that were composed completely of free agent or trade acquisitions.
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What? You mean championship teams are not created like in the movie "The Fish that saved Pittsburgh" where they recruit openly from the public and only bring in guys who are Pisces? That was surely the most sure fire way to build a championship team! :ohno:
 
^Man I loved that movie! Dr. J was a pimp!
 
[video=youtube;UOuI0rXrOmA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOuI0rXrOmA[/video]
 
here's a fluffy Kobe bio piece that mentions his favorite schools if he didn't go directly to the draft...

After Kobe’s breakout year, college recruiters from across the country came knocking. The soon-to-be senior boasted excellent grades and SAT scores, so academics would not be an obstacle. At the top of his list were Duke, North Carolina, Villanova and Michigan.

http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Bryant/Bryant_bio.html

STOMP
 
[video=youtube;kZEdqZl3YD8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZEdqZl3YD8&feature=related[/video]
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Just saying that it generally takes one of each--a drafted star and an acquired (via trade or free agency) star--in order to win a title. I have what the initial argument was--does anyone?

EDIT: Never mind--just went back and read Blazerboy's silly post from 3 pages back.



My apologies, PapaG. Your post was perfect, and mine was nothing more than a strawman.
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You're correct... my post didn't convey my actual point. I rephrased later in the thread.
 
SpearsNBAYahoo: Knicks actively trying to acquire Portland center Marcus Camby, but source said Blazers are weighing more attractive options. [via Twitter]
 
Which Crawford, Jamal or Jordan? or both? I like this trade for both for andre miller, dante cunningham, and patty mills
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Just saying that it generally takes one of each--a drafted star and an acquired (via trade or free agency) star--in order to win a title. I have no idea what the initial argument was--does anyone?
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Ha! Yeah, I agree. I think the argument has changed about 4 or 5 times since it was made. I'm going to start posting random fringe role players on title teams, just for the hell of it.

Steve Kerr - 3
Derek Fisher - 5
Jud Buechler - 3
Robert Horry - 7 (!)
Matt Bullard - 1
Eddie House - 1
Craig Hodges - 2
 
Minstrel said:
Not a big KG fan, eh?
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As a player, he's perhaps the best role player in history. I draft him for my fantasy team every year I can. He's a friggin' stat machine.

But as a human being he has no visible redeeming qualities, which is probably why he has never been any kind of team leader.
 
Would it be accurate to say that, while some teams have improved immediately through high picks in the draft or through trades (or both), very few have done much of anything wrt Free Agency? Shaq going to the L*kers is the big win, but it took him 4 years and K*be to win a ring for them, and it was just about derailed by us.

Nash going to PHX resulted in 2 MVP years, but no Finals. Billups was a good pickup by DET, but I wouldn't call him the carrier of that championship team. After that you have to go back to the ABA for good FA signings.

As far as the argument of "drafted by/traded for", the nature of the NBA dictates that most draft-day trades are done after the commish's moratorium for announcing trades (Roy being a significant example). There's no way that someone can rationally say that our brain trust drafted Tyrus Thomas. We traded with CHI and they told us to pick Thomas for them. Same thing happened with Roy. We didn't pick Randy Foye with our pick (never would have), but we knew that MIN wanted Foye in their trade for the 8th pick. We drafted Rudy Fernandez, but that's not what the wiki sites will say b/c the league wouldn't recognize the trade until July 8.

Pippen was drafted in the same manner. CHI were then told to draft Polynice at the 8th pick. Same with K*be. Same with Love and Mayo. I can't believe so many of you think that it doesn't count as "drafting" someone if the commish doesn't say the team name.

I could keep going with recent players. No one here thinks our GMs wanted to draft Darrell Arthur and Joey Dorsey, do they? Or Omer Asik (though they should have!)? No, they drafted Nic Batum, and for the deal were told to draft Arthur and Dorsey. We didn't want Brandon Rush, but that was the price Indy wanted for Bayless.
 
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PapaG said:
Ha! Yeah, I agree. I think the argument has changed about 4 or 5 times since it was made. I'm going to start posting random fringe role players on title teams, just for the hell of it.

Steve Kerr - 3
Derek Fisher - 5
Jud Buechler - 3
Robert Horry - 7 (!)
Matt Bullard - 1
Eddie House - 1
Craig Hodges - 2
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Andre Miller - 0
Wesley Matthews - 0

You've been right all along, PapaG!
 
blazerboy30 said:
You're correct... my post didn't convey my actual point. I rephrased later in the thread.
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OK--just went back and found it. So, to be clear, you were originally criticizing Nikolokolus' claim that trying to find "a nascent star in the draft to pair with LMA" is a better/more likely title-strategy than hoping GO will get healthy and complete the twin-towers for which we've always hoped.

No argument here.
 
hasoos said:
What? You mean championship teams are not created like in the movie "The Fish that saved Pittsburgh" where they recruit openly from the public and only bring in guys who are Pisces? That was surely the most sure fire way to build a championship team! :ohno:
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Sure beats what the Blazers have doing the last 7 years.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
OK--just went back and found it. So, to be clear, you were originally criticizing Nikolokolus' claim that trying to find "a nascent star in the draft to pair with LMA" is a better/more likely title-strategy than hoping GO will get healthy and complete the twin-towers for which we've always hoped.

No argument here.
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Sounds about right. :cheers:
 
PtldPlatypus said:
OK--just went back and found it. So, to be clear, you were originally criticizing Nikolokolus' claim that trying to find "a nascent star in the draft to pair with LMA" is a better/more likely title-strategy than hoping GO will get healthy and complete the twin-towers for which we've always hoped.

No argument here.
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Actually where things really went off the rails is where he asked "when was the last time a team drafted a player that made them a championship caliber team?" (paraphrase) and off-hand without spending more than two seconds I listed Jordan, Duncan and Kobe ...
 
Nikolokolus said:
Actually where things really went off the rails is where he asked "when was the last time a team drafted a player that made them a championship caliber team?" (paraphrase) and off-hand without spending more than two seconds I listed Jordan, Duncan and Kobe ...
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True. My question wasn't thought out well enough to ask what it was intended to. My bad.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Actually where things really went off the rails is where he asked "when was the last time a team drafted a player that made them a championship caliber team?" (paraphrase) and off-hand without spending more than two seconds I listed Jordan, Duncan and Kobe ...
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Yep--it was a poorly-conceived statement & question that detracted from his original intended point, and by the time he clarified, the argument was too far gone.
 
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