Jimmy Butler wants out? (He does.)

[Natebishop3]

My fear is if they arent aggressively trying to get better they’ll be Atlanta in a few years... Though Dame will keep them afloat for a while still.

But at least Atlanta was in the ECF, where they had a chance to make it to the finals.

 

[BigGameDamian]

We played our best basketball of the season (13 game win streak) when Harkless and Aminu were starting together and playing great. Then Mo got hurt and Dame had a baby. Season over.

And that's why they should be untouchable?

 

[BonesJones]

No its not, there just examples of what Id consider foundational players. I cant think of a single player that Id consider a foundational piece that couldnt beat out a very mediocre player early in their career. Not saying they dont exist. Just usually in basketball if a guy is really good, he’s going to beat out the guy in front of him, unless the guy in front of him is really good...

Ok, then Collins isn't a foundational player... apparently Khris Middleton and C.J. McCollum aren't either?

 

[BonesJones]

And that's why they should be untouchable?

Smh.

 

[calvin natt]

The Warriors are one injury to Curry away from being mortal.

I'm also not convinced that the Boogie addition won't blow up in their face.

I would say almost 0% chance it blows up.
There’s almost zero financial risk
He’s playing for his next contract
If he is somehow a problem they’ll cut him loose. They don’t need him.
The culture is so strong he will get in line or be gone. Period

 

[calvin natt]

Let's hear it.

Stuff with teammates that isn’t normal for even NBA standards. He’s not a good guy. At all.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Ok, then Collins isn't a foundational player... apparently Khris Middleton and C.J. McCollum aren't either?

CJ was playing behind a very good player && was injured so... Khris Middleton Im not really sure he is a foundational player, he’s borderline but he’s in the east and hasnt exactly lit it up... I guess its dependent on your definition of a foundational player.

 

[BonesJones]

Best case scenario is Collins gets to Middletons level. Took Middleton a couple years to crack a starting lineup and that was after spending multiple years in college.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Best case scenario is Collins gets to Middletons level. Took Middleton a couple years to crack a starting lineup and that was after spending multiple years in college.

Fair enough. I know its not neccesarily fair to expect every player to be an allstar, or to jump straight into the NBA and be Donovon Mitchell or Dame.
Maybe Zach ends up being good maybe he doesn't.

Edit: How many years is it fair to give a guy though? Like NO the last two years drafted in the 1st round and has basically had the luxury of well no one expects them to play so if they do then they are exceeding expectations. Seems like a good strategy if Im NO.

 

[BonesJones]

Fair enough. I know its not neccesarily fair to expect every player to be an allstar, or to jump straight into the NBA and be Donovon Mitchell or Dame.
Maybe Zach ends up being good maybe he doesn't.

Edit: How many years is it fair to give a guy though? Like NO the last two years drafted in the 1st round and has basically had the luxury of well no one expects them to play so if they do then they are exceeding expectations. Seems like a good strategy if Im NO.

If we see incremental improvement till the age of 24, Collins will be a success.

 

[H.C.]

If Collins cant beat Aminu or Meyers in his 2nd year Id be pretty much at the point that he is not the “foundational” player that Neil says he is. Its not like a Jermaine O’neal thing where he was sitting on the bench behind very good players.
Of course Trent Jr hasnt proven anything but no rookie has.

To me foundational player doesn't mean superstar like Freak/KD/AD/Lillard/LBJ etc.
Collins ceiling is prolly around prime Ibaka.
If he gets above that I'll be surprised.

Players like Freak/KD/AD/Lillard/LBJ came into the draft you knew they were going to be great. Didn't know how great, or if they'd live up to the hype. But you knew they'd be on all-star teams. With All-NBA honors.
I don't remember anyone saying Collins is on that level.
He's young. Aminu > Collins right now.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

To me foundational player doesn't mean superstar like Freak/KD/AD/Lillard/LBJ etc.
Collins ceiling is prolly around prime Ibaka.
If he gets above that I'll be surprised.

Players like Freak/KD/AD/Lillard/LBJ came into the draft you knew they were going to be great. Didn't know how great, or if they'd live up to the hype. But you knew they'd be on all-star teams. With All-NBA honors.
I don't remember anyone saying Collins is on that level.
He's young. Aminu > Collins right now.

I suppose. Like I said it kind of depends on your definition of foundational player. I could see him being a Ibaka type, and if thats what his ceiling is then I guess thats ok.
I really believe that the Blazers if they’re gonna compete for a championship will need an upgrade at one or both forward positions. Maybe forcing Collins in there isnt an upgrade but they just arent good enough with both of those guys playing heavy starter minutes to beat the best teams in the NBA four times in the playoffs.

 

[Natebishop3]

Honestly, if we could get Butler without giving up CJ (and obviously that's a massive "if") then I would try to flip CJ for someone like Middleton.

 

[BonesJones]

I suppose. Like I said it kind of depends on your definition of foundational player. I could see him being a Ibaka type, and if thats what his ceiling is then I guess thats ok.
I really believe that the Blazers if they’re gonna compete for a championship will need an upgrade at one or both forward positions. Maybe forcing Collins in there isnt an upgrade but they just arent good enough with both of those guys playing heavy starter minutes to beat the best teams in the NBA four times in the playoffs.

Your not taking the time to think about how players fit together. Butler, Harkless, and Aminu are a perfect defensive fit. Just like how you want a balanced offense with scorers, shooters, and playmakers, you also want defensive pieces that compliment each other as well as possible.

 

[BonesJones]

Honestly, if we could get Butler without giving up CJ (and obviously that's a massive "if") then I would try to flip CJ for someone like Middleton.

I like the thought. I love switchability and defensive versatility, and Middleton, Butler, and Aminu would all be switchable 1-4 in that lineup.

 

[BonesJones]

Houston showed last year that switchability and good versatile defenders is how you beat Golden State.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Your not taking the time to think about how players fit together. Butler, Harkless, and Aminu are a perfect defensive fit. Just like how you want a balanced offense with scorers, shooters, and playmakers, you also want defensive pieces that compliment each other as well as possible.

Its not that I havent thought about it. I think they’d be good, but Harkless is rarely turned on and Aminu is a good defender but neither of those guys are very dynamic, you’ll still run into teams saying were gonna overload your guards and see if your forwards can beat us. Now one great thing about that is Butlers size helps on both sides of the ball.

 

[BonesJones]

Its not that I havent thought about it. I think they’d be good, but Harkless is rarely turned on and Aminu is a good defender but neither of those guys are very dynamic, you’ll still run into teams saying were gonna overload your guards and see if your forwards can beat us. Now one great thing about that is Butlers size helps on both sides of the ball.

That trap works best when only one of Dame or Butler is on the floor, so it's best to have Aminu and Harkless play with the starters. Even if we had better forwards, we need to make better adjustments when teams trap the pick n roll. That's on the coaching staff, not personel.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

That trap works best when only one of Dame or Butler is on the floor, so it's best to have Aminu and Harkless play with the starters. Even if we had better forwards, we need to make better adjustments when teams trap the pick n roll. That's on the coaching staff, not personel.

Fair enough. That was so annoying to watch. Why they kept doing that same crap over and over.... Ugh...

 

[HailBlazers]

But at least Atlanta was in the ECF, where they had a chance to make it to the finals.

Meh, ECF =/ WCF

 

[Natebishop3]

Meh, ECF =/ WCF

Yeah... typo... just meant Eastern Conference, not Eastern Conference Finals

 

[H.C.]

I suppose. Like I said it kind of depends on your definition of foundational player. I could see him being a Ibaka type, and if thats what his ceiling is then I guess thats ok.
I really believe that the Blazers if they’re gonna compete for a championship will need an upgrade at one or both forward positions. Maybe forcing Collins in there isnt an upgrade but they just arent good enough with both of those guys playing heavy starter minutes to beat the best teams in the NBA four times in the playoffs.

I agree with you Portland needs to upgrade their forwards to compete.

Spoiler

@BonesJones prolly got tired of my spam during the draft. About how upset I was when Porter fell that Portland didn't make a move for him. He did point out that once Porter fell that the 14th pick prolly became unavailable. Still tho, Portland had options to move to get him.

But that's one of the reasons why I'd advocate for Butler to play the three.
Portland has Curry, WB4, Trent, and prolly someone else I'm forgetting who could play the two.
Butler at the three, forces Harkless into the backup role. While putting an additional proven shooter on the floor in Curry.

I say all this while not being on board with the swap of CJ for Butler.
I'd be more on board with the swap of CJ for Wiggins. But even then I'm not on board for that.
If I'm going to deal CJ, it's going to be for the max return. I don't believe Butler, or Wiggins is the max return. Simply because Butler and Wiggins have too many concerns. When CJ has too few.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Phatguysrule]

If Neil really wanted Jimmy Butler, he would be a Blazer. None of the teams on that list will be able or willing to offer a better fit to win now for TWolves than CJ. The problem is Neil is unwilling to trade CJ and he knows this is the only way to get Butler to Portland... he is once again having his friend Woj add his name as interested to make it seem like he is trying... Neil is such a con artist.

Getting Butler without including CJ puts us in the championship conversation.

That should be the goal.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'd love that trade. It doesn't sound like Minny will trade Butler without Dieng attached though.

Good. That makes the deal tougher to swallow. So they don't get CJ.

 

[ripcityboy]

I agree with Gronk. Neil's such a con artist we might as well call him the Flim Flam Man. He has no plan to attempt a workable trade.

 

[KingSpeed]

Houston showed last year that switchability and good versatile defenders is how you beat Golden State.

You also can’t miss 27 consecutive three pointers.

 

[Sarni]

What are Miami offering? They don’t really have anything of value, Winslow and Adebayo are their only half decent young players and I think they can only trade the 2019 pick as with 2021 gone to Philly they cannot offer 2020 & 2022. It’s not like Whiteside has positive value. Maybe Richardson?

 

[BonesJones]

 

[Natebishop3]

What are Miami offering? They don’t really have anything of value, Winslow and Adebayo are their only half decent young players and I think they can only trade the 2019 pick as with 2021 gone to Philly they cannot offer 2020 & 2022. It’s not like Whiteside has positive value. Maybe Richardson?

Whiteside is pretty much it. So I guess it depends on whether they think KAT can play power forward, but Miami has zero shot at re-signing him. That team is not good and has no future.