Jimmy Butler wants out? (He does.) (1 Viewer)

[UKRAINEFAN]

Yep. Jimmy just wants to be $$$wanted $$$.

Right, I guess for me the risk isn't that he won't stay, but the risk is how much the finances to keep him would fetter Portland for a longtime.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Let's say that Minnesota decides to pay him enough so that he wanted to stay. This is a little crazy, but what if we traded them Turner, Leonard, Harkless and Aminu for Wiggins, Dieng and Patton? This would save them $100 million in the next five years and gets rid of one overpaid guy Butler doesn't really love. I think it might make them a better team also. What would it do for us though?

 

[Scalma]

Lolol. Turner for Butler straight up.

 

[CupWizier]

The question isn't whether Butler will help or not, but rather what will it cost. No way do I trade CJ for him but not sure if we have the assets that would be better than what other teams might offer.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Its great having a 4 year old girl, a 2 year old girl, and a one year old girl. Every day I get to see the minnesota timberwolves at home...

 

[Scalma]

Let's say that Minnesota decides to pay him enough so that he wanted to stay. This is a little crazy, but what if we traded them Turner, Leonard, Harkless and Aminu for Wiggins, Dieng and Patton? This would save them $100 million in the next five years and gets rid of one overpaid guy Butler doesn't really love. I think it might make them a better team also. What would it do for us though?

Depends on your opinion of Wiggins. I personally think there’s another level to his game, and he’d fit in Portland. But it’s also not my money and he’s owed a lot of it.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Let's say that Minnesota decides to pay him enough so that he wanted to stay. This is a little crazy, but what if we traded them Turner, Leonard, Harkless and Aminu for Wiggins, Dieng and Patton? This would save them $100 million in the next five years and gets rid of one overpaid guy Butler doesn't really love. I think it might make them a better team also. What would it do for us though?

Or, let's simplify this: Turner, Leonard and Harkless for Wiggins and Dieng. Saves them $94 million over five years.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Or, let's simplify this: Turner, Leonard and Harkless for Wiggins and Dieng. Saves them $94 million over five years.

It probably saves them more, I just multiplied the years times the salaries, but I'm guessing they go up each year.

 

[Hoopguru]

I believe this was a reference to MIN trying to low ball him when they eagerly gave Wiggins and KAT max extensions. I think this is the root of this whole shit show in MIN. Butler saw the two young guys who don't play defense and don't really seem to be committed to winning get paid when MIN wasn't willing to make that same level of financial commitment to him. He's basically telling Layman, you need me to be competitive, you shouldn't have tried to low ball me.

BNM

The whole thing was orchestrated by Butler & Thibs..a little Chicago shock value.
I bet he plays the for them starting the season and his trade value will go way up!

 

[illmatic99]

My opinion of Thibs as a leader over the last year has just plummeted.

 

[blue9]

Yeah that part of his interview came off as phony to me. If winning is as important to you as you claim, then why the fuck are your preferred destinations perennial losers?

This is my biggest issue with him. I don't care about him yelling at the coach - sometimes coaches need to be dressed down by their players. Remember 'Dre/McMillan? You better believe 'Dre was in the right on that altercation.

But the fact that he wants to be traded to shit teams makes me think he's PHX-era Joe Johnson - doesn't care so much about winning, but instead wants to dominate the ball.

I'm also concerned about how he'd react to playing with Dame/CJ - guards who aren't great defenders. It's fine if he gets on them occasionally to get better effort from them, but given his history I wonder if Dame/CJ could ever live up to Jimmy's expectations. And if not, what happens with that relationship? Jimmy hated Rose in CHI (I can't fault him, I did too!), but back then many people felt that Dame/Rose were similar players. I just don't know that Dame (or CJ) is the sort of guy that Jimmy would be fine playing second fiddle to.

 

[Hoopguru]

This is my biggest issue with him. I don't care about him yelling at the coach - sometimes coaches need to be dressed down by their players. Remember 'Dre/McMillan? You better believe 'Dre was in the right on that altercation.

But the fact that he wants to be traded to shit teams makes me think he's PHX-era Joe Johnson - doesn't care so much about winning, but instead wants to dominate the ball.

I'm also concerned about how he'd react to playing with Dame/CJ - guards who aren't great defenders. It's fine if he gets on them occasionally to get better effort from them, but given his history I wonder if Dame/CJ could ever live up to Jimmy's expectations. And if not, what happens with that relationship? Jimmy hated Rose in CHI (I can't fault him, I did too!), but back then many people felt that Dame/Rose were similar players. I just don't know that Dame (or CJ) is the sort of guy that Jimmy would be fine playing second fiddle to.

Very valid concerns. Im sure Neil feels the same way, I don't see him as a Trailblazer.

 

[blue9]

Very valid concerns. Im sure Neil feels the same way, I don't see him as a Trailblazer.

Even with those concerns I keep going back on forth on whether I'd do Turner+Simons for Jimmy. On face value I'm in. But then I remember we'd have to give Jimmy a MAX contract next summer and then I'm out. Honestly, that's the final deal-breaker for me - signing him to that contract would pretty much cement our fate as a good-but-never-great team for the next 5 years. I'm of the opinion that the only way we can possibly become great is if at least two of Simons/Trent/Collins become top-flight players and Nurk improves his offensive efficiency.

 

[illmatic99]

All this does is make me appreciate Dame so much more.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Even with those concerns I keep going back on forth on whether I'd do Turner+Simons for Jimmy. On face value I'm in. But then I remember we'd have to give Jimmy a MAX contract next summer and then I'm out. Honestly, that's the final deal-breaker for me - signing him to that contract would pretty much cement our fate as a good-but-never-great team for the next 5 years. I'm of the opinion that the only way we can possibly become great is if at least two of Simons/Trent/Collins become top-flight players and Nurk improves his offensive efficiency.

We wouldn't have to give him a max. If acquiring him makes us a contender, then it would be well worth giving him a max. However, if adding Butler to this squad isn't enough to elevate it to contender status, then you let him walk and be happy with being rid of Turner (in the scenario you described).

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Even with those concerns I keep going back on forth on whether I'd do Turner+Simons for Jimmy. On face value I'm in. But then I remember we'd have to give Jimmy a MAX contract next summer and then I'm out. Honestly, that's the final deal-breaker for me - signing him to that contract would pretty much cement our fate as a good-but-never-great team for the next 5 years. I'm of the opinion that the only way we can possibly become great is if at least two of Simons/Trent/Collins become top-flight players and Nurk improves his offensive efficiency.

They dont have to pay him though if things dont work out he’s a one year rental and we got one less year of ET. If things go well and they’re a good team paying him wouldnt be as hard to swallow. At one point I wouldve been ok giving up CJ for him, now Im not though. Way too much of a risk to give up CJ.

 

[blue9]

We wouldn't have to give him a max. If acquiring him makes us a contender, then it would be well worth giving him a max. However, if adding Butler to this squad isn't enough to elevate it to contender status, then you let him walk and be happy with being rid of Turner (in the scenario you described).

While I'd be happy to get rid of Turner, I'm not into the idea of giving away a young player on a rookie contract for a one-year rental. Our life-blood is rookie contracts at this point! In that scenario, I'd rather keep Turner and just let him expire. If we could somehow swing a Turner+anyone other than Dame, CJ, Nurk, Collins, Simons, or Trent then sure - but I'm not gonna hold me breath on that ever happening.

 

[julius]

They dont have to pay him though if things dont work out he’s a one year rental and we got one less year of ET. If things go well and they’re a good team paying him wouldnt be as hard to swallow. At one point I wouldve been ok giving up CJ for him, now Im not though. Way too much of a risk to give up CJ.

Im not saying that Simons is a sure fire stud, but I'm not sure if one less year of ET is worth giving up on him, especially given that it's an unknown that he (Butler) re-signs nor is it a given that he's not a detriment to the team.

Bottom line, if Damian wanted him here, he'd be here. Since he's not here, I'm sure there's a valid reason. And it's not that Olshey is a bum/not good at his job.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

While I'd be happy to get rid of Turner, I'm not into the idea of giving away a young player on a rookie contract for a one-year rental. Our life-blood is rookie contracts at this point! In that scenario, I'd rather keep Turner and just let him expire. If we could somehow swing a Turner+anyone other than Dame, CJ, Nurk, Collins, Simons, or Trent then sure - but I'm not gonna hold me breath on that ever happening.

Yes, Butler not elevating the squad and leaving would be a worst-case scenario. There would be a potential risk of loss in taking the Butler gamble. Can you show me a path to contention that doesn't contain some risk? I'd submit that none exist.

Simons would essentially be the ante for a shot at the contender-with-Butler jackpot. It's a risk I'm willing to live with.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Im not saying that Simons is a sure fire stud, but I'm not sure if one less year of ET is worth giving up on him, especially given that it's an unknown that he (Butler) re-signs nor is it a given that he's not a detriment to the team.

Bottom line, if Damian wanted him here, he'd be here. Since he's not here, I'm sure there's a valid reason. And it's not that Olshey is a bum/not good at his job.

Dame wanted Ed here, he’s not.

I think its fair to say theres too much risk there for Olshey to do it, but I also kind of want them to take a risk.

 

[julius]

Dame wanted Ed here, he’s not.

I think its fair to say theres too much risk there for Olshey to do it, but I also kind of want them to take a risk.

Different scenarios. Ed's game was limited and really not going to change the trajectory of the teams future. Trading CJ (or a combo of Collins/Simons, etc) would potentially set the franchise back several steps.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Different scenarios. Ed's game was limited and really not going to change the trajectory of the teams future. Trading CJ (or a combo of Collins/Simons, etc) would potentially set the franchise back several steps.

My point was that Dame doesnt get everything he wants. I understand every situation is different, but even if NO went after Minnesota hard they couldve just said no they arent interested in what we have.

 

[julius]

My point was that Dame doesnt get everything he wants. I understand every situation is different, but even if NO went after Minnesota hard they couldve just said no they arent interested in what we have.

I get that. But there isn't a better offer than CJ for him. My point is if Damian doesn't want Jimmy butler here, they're not going to trade for him.

 

[Scalma]

My point was that Dame doesnt get everything he wants. I understand every situation is different, but even if NO went after Minnesota hard they couldve just said no they arent interested in what we have.

Probably the most likely scenario. It’s the simplest answer, so it’s probably the closest to the truth. Olshey probably told Minnesota you can have anyone outside Dame, CJ, and Collins (Nurk isn’t eligible) and thibs probably said thanks bye.

 

[TBpup]

Probably the most likely scenario. It’s the simplest answer, so it’s probably the closest to the truth. Olshey probably told Minnesota you can have anyone outside Dame, CJ, and Collins (Nurk isn’t eligible) and thibs probably said thanks bye.

So no Butler/Dieng for Turner/Leonard/Harkless? It works on the Trade Machine so it must be a pending deal.

 

[blue9]

Yes, Butler not elevating the squad and leaving would be a worst-case scenario. There would be a potential risk of loss in taking the Butler gamble. Can you show me a path to contention that doesn't contain some risk? I'd submit that none exist.

Simons would essentially be the ante for a shot at the contender-with-Butler jackpot. It's a risk I'm willing to live with.

See:

I'm of the opinion that the only way we can possibly become great is if at least two of Simons/Trent/Collins become top-flight players and Nurk improves his offensive efficiency.

The risk is that it doesn't happen. I think being a contender - with or without Jimmy - is a huge long-shot. I guess I'd rather have more flexibility (rookie contracts) and see what happens with Simons/Collins/Trent. If Simons pans out, then perhaps we trade CJ down the road for a SF/PF that puts us in contention. If Simons and Collins both pan out we trade CJ for a SF. If all three pan out, then we have an excellent team and lots of good players to make any fine-tuning trades that might be necessary.

 

[ehizzy3]

We need to get jimmy ASAP.

 

[rotary111]

Its great having a 4 year old girl, a 2 year old girl, and a one year old girl. Every day I get to see the minnesota timberwolves at home...

This is such a good post!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

See:

The risk is that it doesn't happen. I think being a contender - with or without Jimmy - is a huge long-shot. I guess I'd rather have more flexibility (rookie contracts) and see what happens with Simons/Collins/Trent. If Simons pans out, then perhaps we trade CJ down the road for a SF/PF that puts us in contention. If Simons and Collins both pan out we trade CJ for a SF. If all three pan out, then we have an excellent team and lots of good players to make any fine-tuning trades that might be necessary.

Yes, that's the risk. With the path you'd prefer, the same risk exists...it just takes multiple years to find out. I'd like to know sooner. Also, given Butler's demonstrated performance, and the odds of those picks panning out, as well as Olshey's overall track record on trades, I think a lot of things would have to work out for a wait-and-see approach to bring results.

All that said, the discussion is moot if MIN isn't interested in anything we're offering, and I think that's the case.