Trade Larry Nance Jr traded to Portland

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The Freak is in his 8th year. he used to be an absolutely atrocious shooter. His free throw percentage has actually dropped.
 
Hoopguru said:
He was a superb defensive player first, bs’s and defensive boards. He was also mvp of the finals and season.
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IIRC he led that team in scoring and assists. He was a great 2-way player. The questioned specified a defensive specialist.
 
Buffalo Custard said:
IIRC he led that team in scoring and assists. He was a great 2-way player. The questioned specified a defensive specialist.
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Bill was able to keep players from going to the hoop just as good as Rudy. He could cover the weak side block the shot and had a knack for keeping it inbounds. Yep the best passing center to ever play and best outlet passing 5 after a defensive board.
Bills scoring extra topping.
The league feared his d in the paint.
 
Orion Bailey said:
why does being a defensive specialist mean you cant also score?
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Pippen was a defensive specialist, And he could score.
Klay thompson is/was a defensive specialist aNd can score.

i would think a defensive specialist is someone who can guard just about anyone and be a plus at it.

i wouldn't think just because they can also score, it would minimize their defense from being special or elite.
Ben can certainly score in the right system with the right players around him. Its already been proven.
 
Orion Bailey said:
why does being a defensive specialist mean you cant also score?
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I don't consider a guy who is a strong 2-way player a "specialist." Specialization and versatility are mutually exclusive. Walton (for example) may have been an elite defender, but he was still highly versatile and made his team better at both ends of the floor.

As for Simmons - we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
It's no secret that I am not the president of the CJ fanclub - but we need to be realistic.

Flip CJ and Simmons and the Blazers get better on defense and worse on offense. You just have to hope the former outweighs the latter.

On an individual level, it is a good bet that if you flip the 2 CJ remains a very good scorer while increasing his assists. Conversely, Simmons remains a poor shooter/limited scorer whose assist total will drop. I would love to trade CJ for a good 2-way player - but IMHO he and Simmons are both "specialists" who only make the team better at one end of the court. (albeit opposite ends)

At this point people are so emotionally invested in the issue it seems we are all talking past each other.
 
Buffalo Custard said:
I don't consider a guy who is a strong 2-way player a "specialist." Specialization and versatility are mutually exclusive. Walton (for example) may have been an elite defender, but he was still highly versatile and made his team better at both ends of the floor.

As for Simmons - we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Fair enough. I just think he is still young and can improve offensively in the right system.
Next to Dame, if he were to even become acceptable on offense that would significantly improve this team i think.
 
Buffalo Custard said:
It's no secret that I am not the president of the CJ fanclub - but we need to be realistic.

Flip CJ and Simmons and the Blazers get better on defense and worse on offense. You just have to hope the former outweighs the latter.

On an individual level, it is a good bet that if you flip the 2 CJ remains a very good scorer while increasing his assists. Conversely, Simmons remains a poor shooter/limited scorer whose assist total will drop. I would love to trade CJ for a good 2-way player - but IMHO he and Simmons are both "specialists" who only make the team better at one end of the court. (albeit opposite ends)

At this point people are so emotionally invested in the issue it seems we are all talking past each other.
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I don’t believe this to be a “CJ (offense) versus Ben (defense) issue at all. Rather, we must ask ourselves if Dame/CJ is an NBA Title backcourt. I personally would like to see Dame / Powell / Simmons over Dame / CJ / Simmons if given such opportunity.
 
BoomChakaLaka said:
I don’t believe this to be a “CJ (offense) versus Ben (defense) issue at all. Rather, we must ask ourselves if Dame/CJ is an NBA Title backcourt. I personally would like to see Dame / Powell / Simmons over Dame / CJ / Simmons if given such opportunity.
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I like CJ, and I won't be terribly upset if he stays as a Blazer. That said, a tri of Damian, Norman and Ben is much better than Damian, CJ, Powel.

If CJ had Norman's defensive skill/mindset, things would be different. I think the team can handle 1 player in the starting 5 who is defensively weak, not 2. And it can handle 1 player "small" for his position (guard, Norman) if he makes up for it in defensive skills, but not two (guard and small forward). Especially if that guard in the guard/sf combo is a so-so defender (CJ).

Side note...am I the only one who constantly types Normans name as "Normal"?
 
julius said:
I like CJ, and I won't be terribly upset if he stays as a Blazer. That said, a tri of Damian, Norman and Ben is much better than Damian, CJ, Powel.

If CJ had Norman's defensive skill/mindset, things would be different. I think the team can handle 1 player in the starting 5 who is defensively weak, not 2. And it can handle 1 player "small" for his position (guard, Norman) if he makes up for it in defensive skills, but not two (guard and small forward). Especially if that guard in the guard/sf combo is a so-so defender (CJ).

Side note...am I the only one who constantly types Normans name as "Normal"?
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yes you are. And its not normal.
 
julius said:
A lineup of CJ/Dame/Powell/Roco/Nurk

isn't better than

Dame/Powell/Roco/Simmons/Nurk
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I would think the second is better.... but I also wouldn't be shocked if it was worse.

I'm not sure Nurk+Simmons fit in the same lineups.

Simmons could look worse outside the 6ers environment.

Dame might not be as effective without CJ.

Simmons personality could clash, he decides he doesn't want to follow Dame, he wants to go to a different market, etc.

Overall I make the trade, but its not a guaranteed improvement.
 
illmatic99 said:
of which he played in only 35. i hope he has a breakthrough year, but he does seem to get unlucky w/ injuries.
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Yeah I guess my point isn't that he's injury prone it's just harder to judge players off games played given the last two seasons. But that was probably obvious.
 
illmatic99 said:
of which he played in only 35. i hope he has a breakthrough year, but he does seem to get unlucky w/ injuries.
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BonesJones said:
Yeah I guess my point isn't that he's injury prone it's just harder to judge players off games played given the last two seasons. But that was probably obvious.
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hey guys, not to be a dick but can you guys move this to the nance thread? Itll make it easier on me when i go to tally things up. :)

http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/larry-nance-jr-traded-to-portland.368663/
 
Rastapopoulos said:
The Blazers Are Finally Embracing Larry Nance Jr.’s Many Skills
View attachment 42220
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most of that is good analysis

but the idea that Nance is the answer if a team doubles and traps Dame is as silly as the idea that Evan Turner was the answer. The only elite player on the team passing to a role player out of traps doesn't solve that riddle. The goal of the traps is to get the ball out of Dame's hands because teams don't believe other Blazers can consistently beat the defense. Dame's been trapped aggressively in most playoff series. That's put the ball in CJ's hands, or Turner's hands, or Napier's hands, or Nurkic's hands or Melo's hands...and the Blazers have kept losing. Adding Nance to that list isn't changing the equation
 
wizenheimer said:
most of that is good analysis

but the idea that Nance is the answer if a team doubles and traps Dame is as silly as the idea that Evan Turner was the answer. The only elite player on the team passing to a role player out of traps doesn't solve that riddle. The goal of the traps is to get the ball out of Dame's hands because teams don't believe other Blazers can consistently beat the defense. Dame's been trapped aggressively in most playoff series. That's put the ball in CJ's hands, or Turner's hands, or Napier's hands, or Nurkic's hands or Melo's hands...and the Blazers have kept losing. Adding Nance to that list isn't changing the equation
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disagree I think what we’ve missed as much as anything is movement. Nance, Powell and Nas never stop with effort so when other teams double they have to scramble to find our guys. In the past we were extremely predictable. Guys in each corner maybe a center in middle.

now we have guys Who are constantly moving it will make a difference. Also CJ has thrown two lobs in last couple games that’s two more than I’ve seen him throw in 2 years.
 
wizenheimer said:
most of that is good analysis

but the idea that Nance is the answer if a team doubles and traps Dame is as silly as the idea that Evan Turner was the answer. The only elite player on the team passing to a role player out of traps doesn't solve that riddle. The goal of the traps is to get the ball out of Dame's hands because teams don't believe other Blazers can consistently beat the defense. Dame's been trapped aggressively in most playoff series. That's put the ball in CJ's hands, or Turner's hands, or Napier's hands, or Nurkic's hands or Melo's hands...and the Blazers have kept losing. Adding Nance to that list isn't changing the equation
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I disagree. First of all, when the ball ended up in CJ's hands in the 2019 Denver series, he carried us to our first WCF in 19 years. People like to write that off since we lost in the WCF but winning a second round series is a big time accomplishment and we did it in the hardest circumstances. Second of all, Nance isn't CJ, Turner, Napier, Nurk, or Melo. He's more of a Draymond Green. And everyone knows Dame would play well with him. Same with Nance Jr. We just haven't seen it enough but when we have, it has been good.

P.S. Ben Simmons would be even better at this than Nance so if we can get him for CJ and 3 picks, then we should fucking do it.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
P.S. Ben Simmons would be even better at this than Nance
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Is this really true though? Simmons is the better passer, but I wonder....

Both guys can set really good screens, so that's not the issue.

In a scenario where Simmons gets the ball dumped to him because of the double on Dame, the obvious move for the defense is to let Simmons shoot in space, or drive and foul him at the rim and make him shoot free throws. Don't let Simmons pass. Absolutely do NOT let him pass. Recover a little slower on Dame to ensure he's not given the ball back.

When Nance gets that same pass, defenses have nothing but bad options. Recover slowly on Dame and leave Nance wide open? He's pretty good at 17 footers, and can even hit an open three at 37%. That's a bad idea. Play him for the pass and he will take it strong to the rack, and although not a great free throw shooter he's not a complete choker like Simmons. Play him tightly and because there are 2 guys on Dame, there will be somebody wide open that he absolutely will find most of the time.

Don't get me wrong. Simmons is a way, way better player because he's one of the best defenders in the league. Nance hustles and is good at defense, but he's nowhere near Ben's level. And Nance isn't nearly the passer or ball handler.

But just in terms of Dame/Simmons on the pick and roll or Dame/Nance, Nance just offers so many more options. Simmons mostly does one thing at an elite level in that situation--pass. Especially when the playoffs roll around and teams have a lot of time to prepare, and games get tight and Simmons may be inclined to choke, I think Nance is the better option to run the pick and roll with Dame.

Honestly, I think the doubles on Dame aren't going to be as hard on Dame with Nance setting the pick. Defenses are just going to give up too much to the rest of our offense if you just focus on shutting Dame down.

All that said, I'm still a huge fan of acquiring Simmons for CJ. I'd give up Nance in a heartbeat if that helped seal the deal. But I gotta admit I'd like to see Nance get more opportunities with Dame to see how this develops.
 
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