Leonard's Breakout Game?

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Wizard Mentor said:
2) Again I absolutely agree with you about Leonard. But, like Shooter you are in NO WAY describing a "breakout game".

Leonard sucks. He's sucked less in the last few games. I am very happy about this as I tend to be an optimistic homer. Maybe he will actually turn into a real NBA player (for us or get us some value in trade). But seriously you can't have a breakout game in 11 minutes.
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Not sure why you felt the need to mention it wasn't a breakout game twice in a response where you quoted me. I never called it a breakout game. In fact, I specifically said it wasn't. Here's the first paragraph from my first post in this thread:

Boob-No-More said:
For a player who came into the league as young and raw as Meyers Leonard, there is no such thing as a breakout game. He's a long term project and a work in progress. There will be good games, bad games, mediocre games and DNP-CDs. Expect inconsistency, but as long as the overall trend is positive, I'm fine with that.
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Again, I never called it a breakout game. I simply said Leonard is making forward progress, specifically on defense and rebounding, and I'm fine with that. I acknowledged several times that he's still a work in progress and still has a long way to go, but at least the recent trend has been positive.

BNM
 
Mediocre Man said:
He certainly knows more about his team.

All I know is what I see on the floor, and Robinson has played better than Leonar_ in games
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I'll ask again, have you actually watched the last three games? Leonard has rebounded at an even higher rate than Robinson and has played solid position defense. In what way was Robinson playing "better" than Leonard?

BNM
 
He's learning Freeland's "go straight up" defensive technique, and was closer to where he should be on defense more often than I've seen this year (that's not saying much, but it's not saying nothing, either). He looks less lost on offense, doesn't have hands of stone, can actually shoot, and his one truly embarrassing bone-headed play was a result of panic because he couldn't see the shot clock, which points to inexperience, not stupidity.
 
Boob-No-More said:
I'll ask again, have you actually watched the last three games? Leonard has rebounded at an even higher rate than Robinson and has played solid position defense. In what way was Robinson playing "better" than Leonard?
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Robinson looks more serious when he plays and will have an angry scowl on his mug. Leonard is tweeting about Beiber, combing his hair and scheduling tanning salon sessions. Doesn't matter what they are doing with a basketball on the court, some posters prefer one over the other.
 
Robinson tries to do too much, and overestimates his SF skills at the NBA level. Leonard tries to do what the coach told him, so he overthinks a bit. You can't teach the kind of length, athleticism, and shooting touch Leonard has for a 7-footer. So, he's worth teaching how to play. We should all hope the investment pays off. I remain optimistic.
 
Screw all the hemming and hawing. Meyers is improving and is showing that in a couple years, will likely be a very good player in the NBA. There is a long way to go, but Meyers was way more immature and crappy at basketball than most rookies. It's just going to take him a bit, not so much physically, but mentally he is just real young and needs time. His improvements are tangible and actually coming along at a faster clip than I thought they would, so that's great news. Go find another scapegoat, Meyers is going to show you the fuck up!
 
I think the verdict is where most of us were at before:

Leonard still has a lot of potential, and don't trade him just yet.
 
Meyers isn't a 'win now' piece. He's the future. I'd consider trading him for a 'win now' piece, but otherwise I agree: no reason to even talk about trading him.
 
BBert said:
Robinson tries to do too much, and overestimates his SF skills at the NBA level. Leonard tries to do what the coach told him, so he overthinks a bit. You can't teach the kind of length, athleticism, and shooting touch Leonard has for a 7-footer. So, he's worth teaching how to play. We should all hope the investment pays off. I remain optimistic.
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Yeah I'm pretty disappointed with Thomas Robinson. He basically looks like a thicker Billy Barton out there. We might need to decline his 4th year option in the coming summer so we have cap flexibility in 2015-16. I don't want his $4.7 million to get in the way of resigning a starter or being able to sign a nice 6th man.
 
Boob-No-More said:
I'll ask again, have you actually watched the last three games? Leonard has rebounded at an even higher rate than Robinson and has played solid position defense. In what way was Robinson playing "better" than Leonard?

BNM
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I have seen every game.

Leonar_ plays no defense and is a rebounder the same way Hickson is.
 
Mediocre Man said:
I have seen every game.

Leonar_ plays no defense and is a rebounder the same way Hickson is.
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Wow, we must be watching totally different telecasts. So, you haven't noticed Leonard recently playing Freelandesque straight up defense. Do you recall the play against DeAnde Jordan in the Clippers game where Leonard played perfect defense, protected the rim and prevented the easy dunk by Jordan?

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Wow, we must be watching totally different telecasts. So, you haven't noticed Leonard recently playing Freelandesque straight up defense. Do you recall the play against DeAnde Jordan in the Clippers game where Leonard played perfect defense, protected the rim and prevented the easy dunk by Jordan?

BNM
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Having "Seen" the game is entirely different than actually "Watching."
 
Boob-No-More said:
Wow, we must be watching totally different telecasts. So, you haven't noticed Leonard recently playing Freelandesque straight up defense. Do you recall the play against DeAnde Jordan in the Clippers game where Leonard played perfect defense, protected the rim and prevented the easy dunk by Jordan?

BNM
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You are referring to individual plays, while I am referring to his entire body of work in those games. We differ, period
 
Mediocre Man said:
You are referring to individual plays, while I am referring to his entire body of work in those games. We differ, period
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He's at a 15 PER in a limited role off of the bench, and has only a 12% Usage Rate. What more do you want out of the 9th guy in the rotation?

Other than that, you look like a genius with you constant negative "Leonar_" posts!
 
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PapaG said:
He's at a 15 PER in a limited role off of the bench, and has only a 12% Usage Rate. What more do you want out of the 9th guy in the rotation?

Other than that, you look like a genius with you constant negative "Leonar_" posts!
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Not to mention his team leading and near elite level TRB% of 19.8. That would be good for 9th in the league if he could maintain it for the entire season.

BNM
 
PapaG said:
He's at a 15 PER in a limited role off of the bench, and has only a 12% Usage Rate. What more do you want out of the 9th guy in the rotation?

Other than that, you look like a genius with you constant negative "Leonar_" posts!
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He has the same PER as Robinson and is a worse defensive player. I don't get why he is playing. My opinion. Certainly not trying to force t on anyone
 
More bone-headed plays against the Pels for which he was benched.

The only thing he's breaking is my spirit.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
More bone-headed plays against the Pels for which he was benched.

The only thing he's breaking is my spirit.
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I repeat...

Boob-No-More said:
For a player who came into the league as young and raw as Meyers Leonard, there is no such thing as a breakout game. He's a long term project and a work in progress. There will be good games, bad games, mediocre games and DNP-CDs. Expect inconsistency, but as long as the overall trend is positive, I'm fine with that.
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If you expect Leonard to instantly stop making mistakes, you will continue to be disappointed. Mo Williams and Dorell Wright made multiple boneheaded plays tonight and they've been in the league a lot longer than Meyers Leonard.

BNM
 
The decision to go with Meyers over TRob simply isn't working. TRob made some poor decisions, but he fought in the paint and was quick off his feet for offensive boards. Meyers is taller, but his energy isn't anywhere near Robinson.

It's a failed experiment that Stotts needs to own and reverse.
 
No need to repeat, I got it the first time. You agree with me that Leonard hasn't broken out.

As for your second comment I think you are totally ignoring the objection, let me explain it to you:
Let's consider a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being a very small mistake and 10 being a very large mistake.

I don't think anyone's objecting to 1s, 2s, or 3s here. Leonard is making 8s, 9s, and even 10s consistently, which is completely unacceptable. These are mistakes which would get him yanked in a HIGH SCHOOL game.

Saying Mo Williams is also making boneheaded mistakes isn't very comforting.

Boob-No-More said:
I repeat...



If you expect Leonard to instantly stop making mistakes, you will continue to be disappointed. Mo Williams and Dorell Wright made multiple boneheaded plays tonight and they've been in the league a lot longer than Meyers Leonard.

BNM
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Exactly.

craigehlo said:
The decision to go with Meyers over TRob simply isn't working. TRob made some poor decisions, but he fought in the paint and was quick off his feet for offensive boards. Meyers is taller, but his energy isn't anywhere near Robinson.

It's a failed experiment that Stotts needs to own and reverse.
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Robinson was drafted a lot higher than Leonard and has more potential. Advantage: Robinson.

Both are gradually addressing their deficiencies at about the same rate. Advantage: Tie.

But Leonard has twice as deep of a pit to climb out of, since Robinson has one improvement needed (IQ). Leonard has two (toughness and IQ). Advantage: Robinson.
 
jlprk said:
Robinson was drafted a lot higher than Leonard and has more potential. Advantage: Robinson.

Both are gradually addressing their deficiencies at about the same rate. Advantage: Tie.

But Leonard has twice as deep of a pit to climb out of, since Robinson has one improvement needed (IQ). Leonard has two (toughness and IQ). Advantage: Robinson.
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Best observation on the topic I've read. Well put jlprk!
 
...is the Leonard experiment over yet? :dunno: I much prefer T-Rob's tenacity and hustle!
 
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