Lillard for MVP 2021

[KSF-ERIC]

Yes, at the VERY beginning, Mo Williams was the 2nd best player on his team. The special case was 15+ years ago.

Mo Williams didn’t join til 2008. When LeBron went to Finals in 2007, his 2nd best player in those playoffs was Boobie Gibson. A rookie. Similar to when LeBron won 2 finals games vs GS with Dellavedova as his 2nd best player.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Embiid, Curry, Jokic, Dame and James (in no particular order) all belong in the MVP discussion, IMO. I think Doncic is a phenomenal talent and maybe he should be on the fringes of the discussion, but he's having a slightly lesser season than last year.

Why Curry or Jokic? Both teams have been disappointments. Why not Kawhi? I got LeBron, Kawhi, Dame, Gobert, Embiid, and Harden ahead of those guys.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

How hard is it to understand that CJ is a terrible fit next to Dame in the backcourt which means he's an even worse fit as our second option, taking up all of that cap space and those minutes. Olshey is to blame for Dame's mediocre playoff success.

Please spare me the "CJ is great in the playoffs" bullshit. If we all critically think about it, why would CJ's numbers be good in the playoffs? It's because all of our opponents entire strategy is to take Dame out of the game and make CJ beat them... and that strategy has almost always worked with the exception of one post season in which we ran into teams experiencing a rash of injuries.

Dame is too good and has too much talent around him for that talent not to fit both his strengths and weaknesses. It's bullshit and it's Neil's fault. And while the CJ apologists in here are in no way to blame for our lack of success, your position still pisses me off.

The Thunder and Nuggets did not have a rash of injuries. We were the ones with the injuries. CJ is a necessary pressure relief for Dame. That is how we won game 7 on the road. Last year, CJ’s back was broken and LeBron is the near GOAT and Davis is a matchup nightmare, neither of which is CJ’s fault.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Yes. Carrying a team in the playoffs was significantly easier in the eastern conference, especially in the 2000s. That conference was a joke, and still is outside of a few teams.

The East won in the surrounding years. Pistons in 2004, Heat in 2006, Celtics in 2008.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Maybe I should have said in over a decade, when he entered free agency.

LeBron has played 9 of his 18 seasons without a Top 20 teammate, most recently in 2018-19.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

That nullifies what he did for the first seven years of his career. He has played with great players since then and gone to more finals than anyone else that didn't play in the 1960's.

I mean are we really debating Dame v LeBron... that's not a real thing is it?

Magic went to 9 Finals. Did Kareem go to 10?

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Yes. Carrying a team in the playoffs was significantly easier in the eastern conference, especially in the 2000s. That conference was a joke, and still is outside of a few teams.

100% false.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

What?

I'm saying that Dame could have single handedly carried a team in the east in the 2000s. You don't agree?

I don’t. Dame has already tried carrying Pavlovic to Finals (as LeBron did in 2007) and failed to make the playoffs (2013).

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Why are you guys arguing over ancient history?

The question is, who is the 2021 MVP. Lots of arguments for a handful of players. Dame should be in the top 3. What they did 10 years ago should be irrelevant. I wish it were.

I agree with this.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Luka couldn’t hit a wide open game winner so clearly he sucks.

He did hit a game winner against Clips in his first playoffs last season.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Dame gets doubled with and without the pick'n'roll.

If we didn't want him to get doubled, I suppose we could not give him the ball, but that doesn't make much sense to me.

If we have 4 threats around him, then I suspect we'd see far less double teams.

Dame did fine in playoffs last year. Had 34 points in game 1 win. LeBron, AD, and Lakers were just better and at full strength over the course of the series. We were without Ariza and Collins, our two best defenders for those guys. Then Dame got hurt.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

He was 33-1 to win it earlier this week, saw the same site today and down to 22-1 BUT he still has no chance unless the Blazers finish with a top 3 seed. The MVP award, especially in the NBA is a J-O-K-E! Right now I don't see how you can debate that he is the single most important player to his team in the league.

Dame might just get a top 3 seed. Stay tuned.

 

[Tince]

Dame did fine in playoffs last year. Had 34 points in game 1 win. LeBron, AD, and Lakers were just better and at full strength over the course of the series. We were without Ariza and Collins, our two best defenders for those guys. Then Dame got hurt.

Dame is fantastic, I'm not critizing him at all.

In game one, the Lakers doubled less, he had 21 FGA and 10 FTA. The remaining 3 games, he saw more pressure and his attempts dropped to 14.3 FGA and 7.6 FTA.

This isn't about Dame though, it's about the respect teams give our forwards.

 

[Minstrel]

Why Curry or Jokic? Both teams have been disappointments.

Golden State hasn't been a disappointment. Many people believed they were finished as a playoff contender when Klay was lost for the year. In addition, they've lost every one of their centers (even including Draymond in their last game, which they won). And the reason they've exceeded expectations is because Curry's been incredible.

And why Jokic? Because he's been a monster. If team record is what's important, or defying expectations is what's important, Rudy Gobert or Donovan Mitchell should be the MVP front-runner. To me, MVPs are the best players. The best players provide the most value. Lillard belongs in that discussion, but so do the players I mentioned. Kawhi Leonard wouldn't be a bad choice.

 

[42N8Bounce]

I love Dame. Every year I think that he's hit his peak and he can't possibly get any better.



Sometimes I love being wrong.

 

[Natebishop3]

I love Dame. Every year I think that he's hit his peak and can't possibly get any better.

View attachment 37016

Sometimes I love being wrong.

I wonder why he had that dip.

 

[Tince]

I love Dame. Every year I think that he's hit his peak and can't possibly get any better.

View attachment 37016

Sometimes I love being wrong.

Intereting that his lowest PER in 5 years was the year we got to the WCF.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Golden State hasn't been a disappointment. Many people believed they were finished as a playoff contender when Klay was lost for the year. In addition, they've lost every one of their centers (even including Draymond in their last game, which they won). And the reason they've exceeded expectations is because Curry's been incredible.

And why Jokic? Because he's been a monster. If team record is what's important, or defying expectations is what's important, Rudy Gobert or Donovan Mitchell should be the MVP front-runner. To me, MVPs are the best players. The best players provide the most value. Lillard belongs in that discussion, but so do the players I mentioned. Kawhi Leonard wouldn't be a bad choice.

Golden State was expected to compete for the play-in and that’s what they’re doing. Denver was expected to be a top 3 seed and they are hanging on to play-in berth. Jokic has amazing stats but MVP should be winning AND stats. I got Gobert over Jokic for sure. LeBron, Dame, Embiid, Kawhi, Gobert, Harden. Those are top 6.

 

[Natebishop3]

The media and the players think Dame should be a starter.

So the fans are fucking morons. Per the usual.

 

[Minstrel]

Golden State was expected to compete for the play-in and that’s what they’re doing.

They're doing more than competing for a play-in. They're competing for a top-four seed (they're only 2.5 games out of the 4 seed). So even by your expectations, they're exceeding expectations.

That said, narratives aren't what matter the most to me. Playing the best is, and I think Curry is one of the several best this year.

 

[blazerkor]

Magic went to 9 Finals. Did Kareem go to 10?

Yeah, Kareem and LeBron have both gone to ten and Kareem's career did start in 1969.

 

[Orion Bailey]

So who votes for mvp? Same people as the all star?

might as well lock is thread now if so......


How the hell is a due gonna be a too five mvp candidate and not be a starter???????????

Fucking nba. The best and worst sport all packaged into one.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The media and the players think Dame should be a starter.

So the fans are fucking morons. Per the usual.

population of Dallas.
Population of Portland

All stars in small market cities have NO chance.
I thought the nba was trying to fix thst lopsided bs.

How high of an iq does it take to know that there are more fans in Dallas than in Portland by mere populus?
If every fan voted every day, Dallas players win 100% of the time.
Or any other larger city.

This is such a glaringly obvious issue with this im appalled at the “aware” nba not fixing this.

 

[AldoTrapani]

population of Dallas.
Population of Portland

All stars in small market cities have NO chance.
I thought the nba was trying to fix thst lopsided bs.

How high of an iq does it take to know that there are more fans in Dallas than in Portland by mere populus?
If every fan voted every day, Dallas players win 100% of the time.
Or any other larger city.

This is such a glaringly obvious issue with this im appalled at the “aware” nba not fixing this.

Denver isn’t a huge market how does Jokic do it? Milwaukee an even smaller market than Portland how does Gannis do it? Westbrook in Oklahoma City. Even smaller than Milwaukee. KD too in Oklahoma City. Shit even Paul George in Indianapolis.

That “small market” excuse is old. It’s 2021. You can play on the North Pole and be marketed in this day and age.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Why? I'd rather the entire vote was the fans. The All Star game is an exhibition for the fans to see the stars they want to see. I think that's a good role for it.

I consider the All NBA teams to be the purely merit-based awards. Conceptually, at least--I'm not sure it always ends up working out that way.

Unfortunately, all-star selections significantly impact contract bonuses and HOF candidacy.

Denver isn’t a huge market how does Jokic do it? Milwaukee an even smaller market than Portland how does Gannis do it? Westbrook in Oklahoma City. Even smaller than Milwaukee. KD too in Oklahoma City. Shit even Paul George in Indianapolis.

That “small market” excuse is old. It’s 2021. You can play on the North Pole and be marketed in this day and age.

It's not that players from small markets can't be starters. It's more that when resumes are close, market size is basically a tie breaker

 

[Orion Bailey]

Denver isn’t a huge market how does Jokic do it? Milwaukee an even smaller market than Portland how does Gannis do it? Westbrook in Oklahoma City. Even smaller than Milwaukee. KD too in Oklahoma City. Shit even Paul George in Indianapolis.

That “small market” excuse is old. It’s 2021. You can play on the North Pole and be marketed in this day and age.

Denver is almost the size of Seattle. About three times the size of Portland. Its a much bigger market than Portland.
Maybe you completely missed my population analogy? And my question on how mvps are voted on all stars?

its not about the size of the market, but the size of the city. Population. Each cities’ fans will vote for our own. At least for the all star bid.
not sure how mvp works.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Old Video makes it not surprising that he's in the MVP conversation:

 

[julius]

Denver is almost the size of Seattle. About three times the size of Portland. Its a much bigger market than Portland.

Denver population: 705K
Seattle population: 724K
Portland population: 645K

Metro populations: 19th, 15th and 25th. (although those #'s are different depending on the sources. I.e., some metro areas are more generous in what they include in the area than others)
Denvers market size is 16, Portland is 21. Not sure what city you're thinking of, but Denver is not 3x the size of Portland.

Did you mean Dallas? Dallas isn't 3x the population of Portland (it's about 2x) tho, nor is it "almost the size of Seattle".

 

[illmatic99]

Denver population: 705K
Seattle population: 724K
Portland population: 645K

Metro populations: 19th, 15th and 25th. (although those #'s are different depending on the sources. I.e., some metro areas are more generous in what they include in the area than others)
Denvers market size is 16, Portland is 21. Not sure what city you're thinking of, but Denver is not 3x the size of Portland.

Did you mean Dallas? Dallas isn't 3x the population of Portland (it's about 2x) tho, nor is it "almost the size of Seattle".

and it's a flawed premise. giannis from milwaukee just got 4.5 million votes while Tatum from Boston got 2.3. And it's not just the foreign vote.

brad beal from little DC got a million more votes than harden who's playing in NYC.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Denver population: 705K
Seattle population: 724K
Portland population: 645K

Metro populations: 19th, 15th and 25th. (although those #'s are different depending on the sources. I.e., some metro areas are more generous in what they include in the area than others)
Denvers market size is 16, Portland is 21. Not sure what city you're thinking of, but Denver is not 3x the size of Portland.

Did you mean Dallas? Dallas isn't 3x the population of Portland (it's about 2x) tho, nor is it "almost the size of Seattle".

sorry i did mean dallas. Not denver.
3xs, 2xs. Does it matter much when its a million plus more people in the metro area able to vote?

Point being if every portlander voted for dame and every dallas resident voted for thier player, we lose 100% of the time.

i think were talking symantics and we all agree this shit is seriously flawed.

this is legacy we are talking. And letting fans vote is ridiculous.