Lottery pick: #6, 2nd Rnd Picks: #36, and #57

[Phatguysrule]

Then call me crazy, because I still believe his marching orders from Seattle were that on court value was NOT a priority.

Even if it wasn't a priority he would still check with every team. It's not hard work to ask the same question 30 times.

 

[Phatguysrule]

again...forget about cap-space. Blazers won't have any

what they will finally have that they haven't had since olshey's idiotic 2016 spending spree is some cap-flexibility, and that's important. At least it would be important in the hands of a good GM. Not sure that's Cronin; he might have just been ordered to be a hatchet man by Seattle

Agreed.

And just to be clear, I'm not defending Cronin in any of this. He may well be a hatchet man to position the team for sale.

He may also be trying to get the GM job.

But there is no evidence a legit long forward was available in exchange for CJ. There is evidence that Cronin wanted one, because he was trying to get Simmons.

 

[blazerkor]

Could be. I find it funny that people freak out when CJ has a good game. The Dude can score. Sure, maybe we could have traded him for another 6'2" player.

I've seen no evidence that a player we actually wanted going forward was available... If you think Cronin didn't check for a long 2-way wing starter from every other team in the league you're crazy.

Those guys weren't available in exchange for CJ.

We really don't know what was available for CJ because you've got Cronin saying one of his highest priorities at the trade deadline besides cap shit was getting CJ somewhere he wanted to be and you have CJ saying that he got to choose NOLA. So do we really know for sure that Joe was even open to the best deal if that deal put CJ someplace where CJ didn't want to be?

 

[MickZagger]

We really don't know what was available for CJ because you've got Cronin saying one of his highest priorities at the trade deadline besides cap shit was getting CJ somewhere he wanted to be and you have CJ saying that he got to choose NOLA. So do we really know for sure that Joe was even open to the best deal if that deal put CJ someplace where CJ didn't want to be?

Exactly. I’ve thought that whole find CJ a good situation thing was bush league. This is pro sports, CJ has made millions upon millions with Portland. They’re a business that should be trying to do what’s best for them. Make CJ aware that he’s on the market is one thing. Such amateurism to limit your trading partners to appease him.

I feel like we settled in both deals before the deadline.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm not sure what you consider an over-reaction? CJ is neither a stud nor a dud. He is simply a good, useful player. Good enough that it destroys the value of the NO draft pick - which was far and away the best (potential) asset we got in the deal.

the value of the trade might get damaged, but that hasn't happened yet, like some were acting. Still a step 2 in the process

And yes, Jaynes is a clueless bozo! This was the guy who advocated trading Clyde for Harold Minor. The fact that even he can see this was a bad deal speaks volumes.

Jaynes was an olshey-mouthpiece and a big olshey fan. He'll spend years trashing Portland for firing olshey, and he'll use any excuse to say the new GM isn't as good as olshey.

I've said before that I believe Cronin could have got a little better draft asset package from the Pels trade (but I don't know for certain that's true), but a lot of the criticism of the trade seems based upon the supposition than CJ had substantially more trade value than the Pels trade demonstrated, and I haven't seen a shred of evidence that's true.

 

[e_blazer]

the value of the trade might get damaged, but that hasn't happened yet, like some were acting. Still a step 2 in the process


Jaynes was an olshey-mouthpiece and a big olshey fan. He'll spend years trashing Portland for firing olshey, and he'll use any excuse to say the new GM isn't as good as olshey.

I've said before that I believe Cronin could have got a little better draft asset package from the Pels trade (but I don't know for certain that's true), but a lot of the criticism of the trade seems based upon the supposition than CJ had substantially more trade value than the Pels trade demonstrated, and I haven't seen a shred of evidence that's true.

That’s exactly right, IMO, but I bet CJ’s value around the league has risen a bunch since the trade. IMO, the guy who looks most foolish since the trade is Morey. Harden is out of shape and looking old. CJ looks like a leader and a man on a mission to prove his worth in a lead role. The Sixers would look much better for the future if Morey had done the Simmons/CJ trade.

 

[wizenheimer]

That’s exactly right, IMO, but I bet CJ’s value around the league has risen a bunch since the trade. IMO, the guy who looks most foolish since the trade is Morey. Harden is out of shape and looking old. CJ looks like a leader and a man on a mission to prove his worth in a lead role. The Sixers would look much better for the future if Morey had done the Simmons/CJ trade.

maybe, but I do not believe CJ was a mystery to the rest of the league. There was plenty of chatter about how he performed when he was the 'man' and got a #1 option's share of shots and opportunity. He had a 620 game career prior to the trade. He was a known man. And it's not like he came in and turned the Pels into a top 4 seed. Prior to last night the Pels were 13-13 in the 26 games CJ had played. In the 26 games before CJ they were 14-12

as for Morey, again, maybe. Time and again we heard he was determined to land an all-star for Simmons and he did that. Now, it's possible that Harden is in the middle of a big fade of ability. He's a couple of years older than CJ and he's played lots of minutes. His scoring is down quite a bit, but that sure appears due to usage being way down. He's pretty damn efficient right now as an option 1b

in any event, I'd say it's certain, in Morey's mind at least, he got what he wanted in that trade

 

[e_blazer]

maybe, but I do not believe CJ was a mystery to the rest of the league. There was plenty of chatter about how he performed when he was the 'man' and got a #1 option's share of shots and opportunity. He had a 620 game career prior to the trade. He was a known man. And it's not like he came in and turned the Pels into a top 4 seed. Prior to last night the Pels were 13-13 in the 26 games CJ had played. In the 26 games before CJ they were 14-12

as for Morey, again, maybe. Time and again we heard he was determined to land an all-star for Simmons and he did that. Now, it's possible that Harden is in the middle of a big fade of ability. He's a couple of years older than CJ and he's played lots of minutes. His scoring is down quite a bit, but that sure appears due to usage being way down. He's pretty damn efficient right now as an option 1b

in any event, I'd say it's certain, in Morey's mind at least, he got what he wanted in that trade

If CJ continues next year to play the way he has been, and particularly if he pushes the Pels into playoff contention, Morey will have passed on an AllStar.

 

[Natebishop3]

If CJ continues next year to play the way he has been, and particularly if he pushes the Pels into playoff contention, Morey will have passed on an AllStar.

A younger than Harden player with a much better attitude.

 

[blazerkor]

Exactly. I’ve thought that whole find CJ a good situation thing was bush league. This is pro sports, CJ has made millions upon millions with Portland. They’re a business that should be trying to do what’s best for them. Make CJ aware that he’s on the market is one thing. Such amateurism to limit your trading partners to appease him.

I feel like we settled in both deals before the deadline.

Yeah as far as Joe Cronin the GM candidate is considered, hard pass. Joe the loyal friend seems like someone you'd like to have around but this isn't the do people favors game... you don't do outgoing players favors unless it just happens to work out that way and you sure as shit don't do favors for two fucking opponents let alone two opponents in your conference. I'm not saying I'd actively try to fuck over CJ, it's just that where he ended up making the rest of the 100M that we gave him would be an afterthought to leveraging him to get the very most possible. I definitely wouldn't have asked him where he wanted to be and he would never be able to say "they let me pick this place" with a straight face.

 

[RR7]

Yeah as far as Joe Cronin the GM candidate is considered, hard pass. Joe the loyal friend seems like someone you'd like to have around but this isn't the do people favors game... you don't do outgoing players favors unless it just happens to work out that way and you sure as shit don't do favors for two fucking opponents let alone two opponents in your conference. I'm not saying I'd actively try to fuck over CJ, it's just that where he ended up making the rest of the 100M that we gave him would be an afterthought to leveraging him to get the very most possible. I definitely wouldn't have asked him where he wanted to be and he would never be able to say "they let me pick this place" with a straight face.

I know everyone had their pipe dreams of landing a star for CJ(while simultaneously shitting on CJ), but what were you thinking we were going to get for him? Who was out there likely offering a better deal?

 

[Natebishop3]

I know everyone had their pipe dreams of landing a star for CJ(while simultaneously shitting on CJ), but what were you thinking we were going to get for him? Who was out there likely offering a better deal?

I'm honestly not sure what could have been had.... but I'm also not sure why we NEEDED to do it before the trade deadline. I also really really really wish we would have waited to hire a long term GM and not used a stand-in. The whole thing just stunk to high heaven of an inexperienced front office and an owner that's being led around by her nose.

 

[RR7]

I'm honestly not sure what could have been had.... but I'm also not sure why we NEEDED to do it before the trade deadline. I also really really really wish we would have waited to hire a long term GM and not used a stand-in. The whole thing just stunk to high heaven of an inexperienced front office and an owner that's being led around by her nose.

@wizenheimer posted I think in the other thread how ugly our payroll would look next year with CJ and Norm on the books. If we waited until the offseason, we would have had to take back over 26 million in salary for CJ. What are the odds that comes back in the form of useful players? And who is making that deal with us?

 

[blazerkor]

I know everyone had their pipe dreams of landing a star for CJ(while simultaneously shitting on CJ), but what were you thinking we were going to get for him? Who was out there likely offering a better deal?

The thing is I never shat on CJ. I shat all over Dame/CJ there's a big difference and I didn't want a star for him. What we got in terms of personnel wasn't too bad but it needed to be a guaranteed pick to make it not too bad. To be an actual good trade we should have got a future first along with a guaranteed pick this draft. You can't gamble on the biggest piece you're potentially getting back for your second best player. Let's just hope it's a moot point, the Clippers win, the Pels don't luck out in the lotto and we get that 11th pick. Then the CJ/Larry deal was just a little less than it should have been, not a disaster.

The other thing that was pure shit was that NAW is a promising young player that we traded away for an old broken down player's bird rights, a scrub and a future second.

Now the Norm/RoCo deal was nothing but a complete disaster. Look at the production Norm is giving them, look at what RoCo is giving them too. Tuesday night they gave the Clippers in a game they nearly won: 45 minutes, 25 points, 8 boards and solid defense... I know plus minus isn't everything but the fact that neither of them were a factor in losing ground during those 45 minutes they gave them is meaningful. Also, I think there's no way that RoCo gets as much as he's making right now next season, so the Clippers will probably keep him at a good price and can pay him what they want because they have his bird rights. Both guys could be very valuable bench pieces on a team that is most definitely a contender with Kawhi added to the mix.

As far as when someone asks the bullshit question of "Who was out there likely offering a better deal?" I don't ever fucking know because I'm not in an NBA front office. It's just discouraging to hear Cronin say that after getting the books straightened out getting CJ to a place that he wanted was a huge priority and then hearing CJ say that he appreciates the Blazers letting him pick the Pelicans... to me that sounds like we limited the field of who could have been out there offering a better deal because we weren't going to send CJ to a place he didn't want to go to. Everything about what we got during the trade deadline and what we've heard since fucking screams amateur hour. I don't know if we have an ownership group who is listening to hear that screaming but if we do, regardless of if the pick conveys or not we should either get a new GM or Cronin should have a boss that is a basketball person that has the final say.

 

[Tince]

I'm honestly not sure what could have been had.... but I'm also not sure why we NEEDED to do it before the trade deadline. I also really really really wish we would have waited to hire a long term GM and not used a stand-in. The whole thing just stunk to high heaven of an inexperienced front office and an owner that's being led around by her nose.

Cronin is the long-term GM isn't he? Felt like that since the day he was announced.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Cronin is the long-term GM isn't he? Felt like that since the day he was announced.

Dames the real GM…Joe, Well, He’s just there

 

[blazerfan11]

Some of you wanted more for CJ McCollum? Maybe that's why Olshey couldn't bring himself to trade him.
Olshey was the amateur hour. He couldn't see the forest for the trees.

 

[wizenheimer]

The other thing that was pure shit was that NAW is a promising young player that we traded away for an old broken down player's bird rights, a scrub and a future second.

is NAW really that promising? Doesn't look like it to me. He'll be 24 next season too and he'll be paid 5M which seems really high for what he does

between Little, Winslow, Johnson, and Louzada, all of whom will be paid less than NAW, how many players does Portland need to carry who have really questionable perimeter games?

Not keeping NAW seems like the least worrisome thing about the trade deadline

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

I liked RoCo though his performance was less than I expected. Same for Nance. Too bad about about trading Powell. I thought he’d be the 3rd guard alongside Lillard and Simons. For me, it was always about trading CJ to improve at forward. Getting the Pelican pick and Hart with an improved team salary for re-signing Simons and Nurkic? Practically a clean sweep of contracts with trading or paying the smaller buyout of Bledsoe.

Cronin may not be THE guy for the Blazers, but I like pick #6 or better than having CJ. Just like the season following LMA’s exit, keeping CJ and the others would have resulted in too many wins and a 1st round exit. And one more year of mileage. Operation tank was successful. Now, the Clippers need to their part. [At least Doc isn’t coaching them.]

 

[oldmangrouch]

Some of you wanted more for CJ McCollum? Maybe that's why Olshey couldn't bring himself to trade him.
Olshey was the amateur hour. He couldn't see the forest for the trees.

It's also possible that neither of them are particularly good at the job.

 

[Hoopguru]

Cronin is the long-term GM isn't he? Felt like that since the day he was announced.

He's been a Vulcan for 14 years, he was asked to be a hatchet man and clear a few things up before they hire the new GM after play ins are over tomorrow night. It might go to end of playoffs, bu the new guy will be calling shots up to his announcement.

 

[Tince]

He's been a Vulcan for 14 years, he was asked to be a hatchet man and clear a few things up before they hire the new GM after play ins are over tomorrow night. It might go to end of playoffs, bu the new guy will be calling shots up to his announcement.

Wow, you don't think Cronin will be the GM next season? I thought it was a foregone conclusion they were going to keep Joe on the cheap.

 

[Hoopguru]

Wow, you don't think Cronin will be the GM next season? I thought it was a foregone conclusion they were going to keep Joe on the cheap.

Ive never thought it was a foregone conclusion and yeah he could earn the job I guess.
We cannot forget however, there has been search and Joe still sports interim.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

Without being a jerk about it [or acting like PatterNash], Cronin is clearing the decks for a definitive direction -- Dame or No-Dame. Hoopguru may have the right of it. Either way, Cronin resembles being a "hatchet man" in the nicest possible way. If/when his interim tag is gone [he wins out or Olshey's replacement is named], a good share of the "blame" regarding necessary change is already in the past.

 

[Tince]

Ive never thought it was a foregone conclusion and yeah he could earn the job I guess.
We cannot forget however, there has been search and Joe still sports interim.

Who has the "search" turned up in the last 6 months? Would expect a ton of names by now, right?

You might be right that Joe is a placeholder and they are doing one of the deepest most exhaustive GM searches in league history. Though it would've made since to get your guy before the trade deadline IMO.

 

[BankTeller]

If the Blazers have a chance to draft Jaden Ivey at #3 (assuming we move up) or at #6, would you keep or trade Dame? This kid (Ivey) seriously looks like the next Ja Morant.

I think it’s almost impossible that we draft Ivey #3 with one of the top 3 bigs still on the board. If we did, I’d imagine that we’re trading Dame.

If we told Dame we’re drafting Ivey and he’s okay with it, I’d rather trade Hart and maybe even Nas + TPE + Bledsoe’s contract + whatever else is needed to fill the forward spots than to trade Dame.

Dame/Simons/Ivey would be the best guard trio in the NBA for several years. I still like Smith for the MLE and a third C with #36 with Nurkic, and that would complete our C rotation.

It’s hard to imagine Ivey wanting to stay on the bench for very long though. At that point, I think Simons fetches at least a couple good young players and a few 1sts like what Dame could get us.

 

[blazerkor]

I think it’s almost impossible that we draft Ivey #3 with one of the top 3 bigs still on the board. If we did, I’d imagine that we’re trading Dame.

If we told Dame we’re drafting Ivey and he’s okay with it, I’d rather trade Hart and maybe even Nas + TPE + Bledsoe’s contract + whatever else is needed to fill the forward spots than to trade Dame.

Dame/Simons/Ivey would be the best guard trio in the NBA for several years. I still like Smith for the MLE and a third C with #36 with Nurkic, and that would complete our C rotation.

It’s hard to imagine Ivey wanting to stay on the bench for very long though. At that point, I think Simons fetches at least a couple good young players and a few 1sts like what Dame could get us.

TPEs cannot be combined with anything else including other TPEs.

 

[wizenheimer]

If we told Dame we’re drafting Ivey and he’s okay with it, I’d rather trade Hart and maybe even Nas + TPE + Bledsoe’s contract + whatever else is needed to fill the forward spots than to trade Dame..

if Portland is spending a top-3 pick to draft Ivey as a backup SG they have learned nothing from the Olshey era

 

[oldmangrouch]

if Portland is spending a top-3 pick to draft Ivey as a backup SG they have learned nothing from the Olshey era

If Olshey was still here it would be "Sharpe of bust!"

As for Ivey, I won't bother discussing it with you. If you don't see Ivey as at least a top 5 player in this draft, I think it safe to say you very much in the minority.

 

[wizenheimer]

If Olshey was still here it would be "Sharpe of bust!"

As for Ivey, I won't bother discussing it with you. If you don't see Ivey as at least a top 5 player in this draft, I think it safe to say you very much in the minority.

LOL...have you seen me rate any players in this draft? The only one I've talked about is Holmgren, and I haven't talked much about him

so, even though you won't bother with the discussion anymore, I'll repeat that I think it would be dumb for Portland to draft a player in the top-3 to be a long term backup. If Ivey is that good, then the Blazers should consider trading Simons instead of Hart