Malcolm Brogdon trade ideas

[beast blazer]

We give the Knicks an upgrade at guard (Fournier is dead weight to them), bad blood publicly. And they give us an upgrade at PF, while getting one that is a better shooter. We get a PF that can rebound.

 

[blazerkor]

We give the Knicks an upgrade at guard (Fournier is dead weight to them), bad blood publicly. And they give us an upgrade at PF, while getting one that is a better shooter. We get a PF that can rebound.

View attachment 61362

Why do we want a win now upgrade at PF who has played as many or more games in the league than the two guys we're trading?!? Randle is the type of guy we should have been targeting while we still had Dame. Now we need to be targeting young talent that may or may not end up being better than Randle and picks.

We really need to trade Jerami and Malcolm to whatever destinations need win now players the very most and leverage them for all of the pieces that will contribute to playoff wins in 3-6 years as we can possibly get. The good thing is that judging by the last couple of trade deadlines when Joe was still trying to sell the fan base on winning with Dame... he really understands the value of young assets and draft assets. I expect the trade deadline to result accordingly now that Joe no longer even has to put on the facade that we're trying to win now or even in the next couple of seasons.

 

[BankTeller]

To me, sending Brogdon to the Magic for one of WCJ, Bitazde, or Wagner and a 1st would be the best deal for us. Wagner isn’t going anywhere. But one of Bitazde or WCJ would be a great addition to the front court. WCJ has been injured, but he has two cheap years after this one. Bitazde can be re-signed this summer to be the backup C.

 

[Samuel]

It depends on who it's from. Picks in the 20s are worth about half as much as a lotto.

I’d start by making a list of teams with picks to trade (not encumbered).

then eliminate the teams that aren’t on a contention timeline such that they’d be interested in brogdon vs a younger player.

This narrows the focus quite a bit. Now of the remaining teams, try to figure out if any of them would use their limited draft capital on a guard vs a star or a 2way forward.

OG was just dealt for one second. I think Brogdon could be super valuable to the right team but I think folks need to set their expectations about what the marketplace actually looks like for a guy like Brogdon.

 

[Blazinaway]

I’d start by making a list of teams with picks to trade (not encumbered).

then eliminate the teams that aren’t on a contention timeline such that they’d be interested in brogdon vs a younger player.

This narrows the focus quite a bit. Now of the remaining teams, try to figure out if any of them would use their limited draft capital on a guard vs a star or a 2way forward.

OG was just dealt for one second. I think Brogdon could be super valuable to the right team but I think folks need to set their expectations about what the marketplace actually looks like for a guy like Brogdon.

a 20 protected 1st rdr with an expiring contract is likely a decent bet, LP protected may be a bit much for us

 

[Blazinaway]

I think this would be a pretty good get for the Blazers. Trend would just be an expiring contract to make it work. Precious could start at PF for us and allow us to move Grant over to SF. He's an UFA this coming year as well, so it would be a trial. Might be able to get a 1st out of Toronto as well due to Precious being an expiring and Brogdon having another year. But I think this is the sort of thing we should get for Brogdon, a young forward.
View attachment 61249

Rather have a later 1st rd pick from Knicks and and an expiring which they have

 

[beast blazer]

Why do we want a win now upgrade at PF who has played as many or more games in the league than the two guys we're trading?!? Randle is the type of guy we should have been targeting while we still had Dame. Now we need to be targeting young talent that may or may not end up being better than Randle and picks.

We really need to trade Jerami and Malcolm to whatever destinations need win now players the very most and leverage them for all of the pieces that will contribute to playoff wins in 3-6 years as we can possibly get. The good thing is that judging by the last couple of trade deadlines when Joe was still trying to sell the fan base on winning with Dame... he really understands the value of young assets and draft assets. I expect the trade deadline to result accordingly now that Joe no longer even has to put on the facade that we're trying to win now or even in the next couple of seasons.

Randle is the same age as Grant, and most would consider him a modest upgrade. We could still trade Randle him at a later date, and probably get more interest than Grant. The Knicks might even throw in a lotto protected first, since Brogdon is much better than Fournier at this point.

But trading Brogdon to a playoff team for another 1st would be boring. Half the guys taken in the 20s are out of the league in 5 years. We only have so many roster spots to develop all these rookies. So why not upgrade a starting position?

 

[blazerkor]

Randle is the same age as Grant, and most would consider him a modest upgrade. We could still trade Randle him at a later date, and probably get more interest than Grant. The Knicks might even throw in a lotto protected first, since Brogdon is much better than Fournier at this point.

But trading Brogdon to a playoff team for another 1st would be boring. Half the guys taken in the 20s are out of the league in 5 years. We only have so many roster spots to develop all these rookies. So why not upgrade a starting position?

I really don't think Joe is looking to upgrade this roster for this season. So not only does this not make sense to me, I don't for a second think it's the direction that our front office is headed in. I guess we'll see.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

We need to start thinking of filling position of need and stop worrying about draft picks.

PG - scoot / ant
Sg- Sharpe/ ant
Sf - Camara / Sharpe
PF- ?????
Center- Ayton / Williams

I don’t think we are that far away from getting back to playoffs with a couple of good trades

 

[Samuel]

We need to start thinking of filling position of need and stop worrying about draft picks.

PG - scoot / ant
Sg- Sharpe/ ant
Sf - Camara / Sharpe
PF- ?????
Center- Ayton / Williams

I don’t think we are that far away from getting back to playoffs with a couple of good trades

So in this scenario Ant comes off the bench, yea?

 

[Pinwheel1]

So in this scenario Ant comes off the bench, yea?

It all depends on Scoot. Maybe next year or maybe the year after. He needs to deserve it first. And if he improves like most of us think he will then I think Ant will be ok with it. All three will get over 30 minutes a game.

 

[BankTeller]

It all depends on Scoot. Maybe next year or maybe the year after. He needs to deserve it first. And if he improves like most of us think he will then I think Ant will be ok with it. All three will get over 30 minutes a game.

I am willing to bet you $100 that no matter how much Scoot improves, Ant will NEVER be ok with coming off the bench LOL. If Scoot improves, we have to try the three guard starting lineup. If it doesn’t work, we have to trade Ant. You can’t name a single player that has every averaged 28ppg before his prime that has ever agreed to come off the bench. Havlicek maybe? But that was also with eight teams in the league and like 60 years ago, and games started wasn’t even recorded yet.

 

[Hoopguru]

It all depends on Scoot. Maybe next year or maybe the year after. He needs to deserve it first. And if he improves like most of us think he will then I think Ant will be ok with it. All three will get over 30 minutes a game.

I dont think Ant will want to come off the bench, so start Ant at pg and bring Sharpe off the bench.

 

[Pinwheel1]

We need to start thinking of filling position of need and stop worrying about draft picks.

PG - scoot / ant
Sg- Sharpe/ ant
Sf - Camara / Sharpe
PF- ?????
Center- Ayton / Williams

I don’t think we are that far away from getting back to playoffs with a couple of good trades

I am not counting on a trade for an excellent PF. They seem hard to come by. But you never know.

I do wonder if we draft a PF or a scoring SF. Whoever we draft needs to be better than Camara and Walker. I am encouraged by both and think either could be a starter if we find a dynamic scorer at the other forward spot.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I am willing to bet you $100 that no matter how much Scoot improves, Ant will NEVER be ok with coming off the bench LOL. If Scoot improves, we have to try the three guard starting lineup. If it doesn’t work, we have to trade Ant. You can’t name a single player that has every averaged 28ppg before his prime that has ever agreed to come off the bench. Havlicek maybe? But that was also with eight teams in the league and like 60 years ago, and games started wasn’t even recorded yet.

I dont think Ant will want to come off the bench, so start Ant at pg and bring Sharpe off the bench.

Well since none of us know Ant personally we are all guessing. My guess is he is not the stupid, selfish, egotistical player you are both describing. To be clear I am talking next year or the year after and only if Scoot becomes so good that it is obvious to everyone that he needs to start. If the team is winning with Scoot / Sharpe starting and Ant coming off the bench why would he not be ok? He will still get his minutes and he will still get paid. Like I said the only way he would have a problem is if he is stupid, selfish, and egotistical. Does that sound like Ant? I don't think so.

I guess there is a chance that Ant turns into an all-star PG and then maybe he would have an issue, but I don't think that will happen either.

 

[BIG Q]

I dont think Ant will want to come off the bench, so start Ant at pg and bring Sharpe off the bench.

Then what makes you think Sharpe will want to come off the bench? If Ant starts at PG, who starts at SG? Scoot is a PG.

 

[BankTeller]

I dont think Ant will want to come off the bench, so start Ant at pg and bring Sharpe off the bench.

That’s just as bad of an idea as benching Ant, imo.

 

[Samuel]

It all depends on Scoot. Maybe next year or maybe the year after. He needs to deserve it first. And if he improves like most of us think he will then I think Ant will be ok with it. All three will get over 30 minutes a game.

ant’s improvement this year, at least in the sample thus far this season, has ruled out an ‘ant as 6th man’ scenario, imo. Volume, usage, stats are up—efficiency has held despite increased opponent defensive focus.

 

[BankTeller]

Well since none of us know Ant personally we are all guessing. My guess is he is not the stupid, selfish, egotistical player you are both describing. To be clear I am talking next year or the year after and only if Scoot becomes so good that it is obvious to everyone that he needs to start. If the team is winning with Scoot / Sharpe starting and Ant coming off the bench why would he not be ok? He will still get his minutes and he will still get paid. Like I said the only way he would have a problem is if he is stupid, selfish, and egotistical. Does that sound like Ant? I don't think so.

I guess there is a chance that Ant turns into an all-star PG and then maybe he would have an issue, but I don't think that will happen either.

I’m not suggesting that he’s stupid, egotistical, or selfish at all. In fact, if you’ve seen my comments regarding Ant on this forum, you’d consider me an Ant apologist. So my guess is I actually know Ant better than you know me, despite the fact that you’ve interacted with me more than I have with Ant lol.

Refusing to come off the bench is not only due to ego and being selfish. Look, if he’s willing to come off the bench, I’ll be happy I’m wrong, and I’ll be more than happy to give you the $100 I offered.

I’m going to ask again, cause you’re probably at the age where you’ve seen way more basketball than I’ve been alive, what is the list of players in the top 10 in scoring in any given season that has been willing to come off the bench?

 

[Hoopguru]

Then what makes you think Sharpe will want to come off the bench? If Ant starts at PG, who starts at SG? Scoot is a PG.

Sorry meant sg. Ant is in his 6th year, and prob feels? he's earned a starting position. Just because a guy wants to start doesn't mean he's stupid, selfish or egotistical. Personally id like them to trade him for a legit scoring 3 at some point. If both Scoot and Shae develop and become better fits and players they probably have the back court starting positions?

 

[BIG Q]

Sorry meant sg. Ant is in his 6th year, and prob feels? he's earned a starting position. Just because a guy wants to start doesn't mean he's stupid, selfish or egotistical. Personally id like them to trade him for a legit scoring 3 at some point. If both Scoot and Shae develop and become better fits and players they probably have the back court starting positions?

Undertand, typo's happen. I'm with you about Scoot/Shae. I think that is the future backcourt for Portland. I want nothing to do with a three guard lineup with Sharpe at the three. Then we are under sized at the two and three. I understand some not wanting to move Ant, but he is an undersized two. Let him get his points now hoping a great deal presents itself. Portland will also have to make a decision between Camara/Thubulle. Of course Thybulle can block all trades this season. Then you have Brogdon and Grant and wether either will be moved. Roster is far from set even for this season possibly. Injuries have been both a curse and a blessing this season. Players have gotten rest while others get playing time. Should be very interesting the rest of the way.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Refusing to come off the bench is not only due to ego and being selfish. Look, if he’s willing to come off the bench, I’ll be happy I’m wrong, and I’ll be more than happy to give you the $100 I offered.

In the scenario I gave, if the team was playing better with him coming off the bench...and he was unwilling to do so, how could it be anything else but selfishness? And as I said......I don't think he would have an issue with it.

 

[BankTeller]

In the scenario I gave, if the team was playing better with him coming off the bench...and he was unwilling to do so, how could it be anything else but selfishness? And as I said......I don't think he would have an issue with it.

Do you really think the world is that black and white? Com’on man. Conan O’Brien finally got his shot at being a late night host when Leno decided to hang it up. Leno decided to have an ego and come back, so NBC decided to put Leno on a show LATER than the Tonight Show, Conan was still the host of the Tonight Show. Conan decided to leave, seeing this as a sign of disrespect. Conan is the only late night host I’ve ever considered genuine, not selfish in the very least. Never considered Conan “not a team player”.

That’s one example. If you shit on it, I’m not sure where to continue the debate without substance. I have yet to hear you list even five 28ppg guys (or even 23ppg guys in their early 20s) in the NBA that was willing to come off the bench in NBA history. This whole argument doesn’t happen if you could name more than a few, it just hasn’t happened.

I understand you were giving a scenario, but the logic you laid out disregards any human emotion. It is the same way CEOs look at their employees as numbers and not humans. If everything were as simple as you laid out, thoughts like “only Lebron can handle Kyrie”, “gotta make sure DA feels involved”, etc would cease to exist. Gordon Hayward said his main reason for not re-signing with the Jazz was because they didn’t extend him after his third year. Never seemed like an unselfish guy to me.

 

[beast blazer]

I'd wait till Scoot is at least an above average starter to even think about trading Simons.

I also don't agree with the assumption that a Scoot/Simons backcourt would be Dame/CJ all over again. They may compliment each other better.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I can't see them trading one 31-year-old guard for another 31-year-old guard and giving us 2 picks.
They also have Brunson, Hart, DiVincenzo, Grimes, and Flynn.

Well, one 31 year old guard has been completely out of the Knicks' rotation for over a year now, while the other was 6th man of the year very recently, so maybe not all 31-year-old guards are the same?
Of the non-Brunson guards you listed, only Flynn is a PG, and I doubt his defense is up to Thibs's standards, so you've basically made the case for the Knicks' need for another PG.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Well, one 31-year-old guard has been completely out of the Knicks' rotation for over a year now, while the other was 6th man of the year very recently, so maybe not all 31-year-old guards are the same?
Of the non-Brunson guards you listed, only Flynn is a PG, and I doubt his defense is up to Thibs's standards, so you've basically made the case for the Knicks' need for another PG.

My point was that they are not going to give us 2 first-round picks for a backup PG.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

My point was that they are not going to give us 2 first-round picks for a backup PG.

Brogdon can play SG alongside Brunson as well as back him up.

Knicks have a number of extra FRP. They aren't all super valuable though, as many have protections. So both your and the prior posters statements could be correct. The Knicks could be willing to give up two FRP.

They could also refuse to give up two different unprotected FRP which would be vastly more valuable. Even one unprotected pick is likely much more valuable than two of those protected ones.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Brogdon can play SG alongside Brunson as well as back him up.

Knicks have a number of extra FRP. They aren't all super valuable though, as many have protections. So both your and the prior posters statements could be correct. The Knicks could be willing to give up two FRP.

They could also refuse to give up two different unprotected FRP which would be vastly more valuable. Even one unprotected pick is likely much more valuable than two of those protected ones.

Yeah but then the fact that they have Hart, DiVencenzo, and Grimes at SG becomes a factor. I agree that they could use Brogdon, I just doubt they give us 2 FRPs unless an injury occurs before the deadline.

 

[OneSport3]

I'd wait till Scoot is at least an above average starter to even think about trading Simons.

I also don't agree with the assumption that a Scoot/Simons backcourt would be Dame/CJ all over again. They may compliment each other better.

The PTSD from the Dame/CJ era is real.

 

[Whyachi]

The PTSD from the Dame/CJ era is real.

It wasn't just Dame/CJ. It was adding even more small ball components to try and undersize and outquick opponents. The tiny Olshey Blazers kept running into bigger, stronger, defensive minded teams in playoffs and got squished.