OT Mass shooting at Highland Park, IL 4th of July parade

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Rastapopoulos said:
So I guess you don't give a shit about all the gun fatalities that can't even remotely be blamed on child-rearing?
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So I guess you don't give a shit about the lack of quality parental supervision of children and the fragile mental state of our youth?

If you would like to have a constructive debate about this great, but lets not go down the “ you are a bad person for not agreeing with me” bull rap please. It wont do any good other than spiral into a cesspool of fingerpointing. This is not positive or constructive to finding a solution.

Your solution does nothing to address the issues with the mental state of the youth.
Mine does and I am of the opinion it will also help with the shootings.
 
riverman said:
it's not semantics...it's culture...you asked about understanding culture....I explained part of it...you don't have to understand it if you don't wish to. I understand it from decades of living there
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It is semantics. The child isn't with a stranger baby sitter who has not personal vested interest in the child growing up healthy. A parent or grandparent does.
 
BlazerBender said:
It is semantics. The child isn't with a stranger baby sitter who has not personal vested interest in the child growing up healthy. A parent or grandparent does.
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The child may very well be ...you are lumping together diverse populations into one mind set here and really...I don't care to argue about something I'm very in touch with. I have Taiwanese family and Taiwanese friends.....my wife ran a day care in Taiwan with 11 children basically raised in our home during the day...grandparents of the kids came to drop them off and pick them up...in most cases you never saw the parents. They are as complex as we are in different approaches to life choices but the value systems are very different from here in the States. If you have a question about Taiwan I'm happy to hear it but please don't try and enlighten me on a country I know and love from speculations you may have about the place. My wife was at a party once in Eugene and when we got home she said..."what is it with all these Americans who as soon as they ask where I'm from they start telling me about my culture?" It's like they don't respect my own knowledge of my homeland..
 
BlazerBender said:
So I guess you don't give a shit about the lack of quality parental supervision of children and the fragile mental state of our youth?

If you would like to have a constructive debate about this great, but lets not go down the “ you are a bad person for not agreeing with me” bull rap please. It wont do any good other than spiral into a cesspool of fingerpointing. This is not positive or constructive to finding a solution.

Your solution does nothing to address the issues with the mental state of the youth.
Mine does and I am of the opinion it will also help with the shootings.
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So you're on board with both? Because we can't fix everybody and we want to stop any shootings, right? After all, it's kind of bad for people's mental health when you can't go outside without risking your life.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I hold dual citizenship and have lived in the States for more than 30 years.

It's the fucking guns. Yes, everybody is fucked up, and perhaps the US more than most, but if we got rid of the guns but kept the screens I fucking guarantee you the rate of homicide would plummet. If we did the reverse I doubt it would change at all. Do you even think that the US has the "worst" "screen time" in the world? Check South Korea. Check Japan. Then look at their homicide rates.

What is the fucking problem with getting rid of fucking guns? You think they work for self-defense? They don't. You think they're going to protect you from the government? Unless you have a small tactical nuclear weapon, the government can take you out however many guns you have. Did you not follow Waco?

Jesus.
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There are a few problems with getting rid of guns.

1- We can't count on police to help us.

2- There is no evidence that gun control works, as I posted in another thread. Brazil tried, gun crime increased, they got relaxed gun control and it appears crime fell by 34%... I've posted ample evidence of other failed attempts in the From My Cold Dead Hands thread... There is just no evidence that guns are the problem. Systems which create violent people are the problem.

3- Getting rid of guns is not going to happen in the US. It's a protected right in the constitution and it doesn't impact enough people to get 38 states to agree to change that. Getting rid of guns in the American is a pipe dream. When hundreds of millions of people want something they get it. Booze, Drugs, Guns... Prohibition on these kinds of things doesn't work if the people want them.
 
riverman said:
The child may very well be ...you are lumping together diverse populations into one mind set here and really...I don't care to argue about something I'm very in touch with. I have Taiwanese family and Taiwanese friends.....my wife ran a day care in Taiwan with 11 children basically raised in our home during the day...grandparents of the kids came to drop them off and pick them up...in most cases you never saw the parents. They are as complex as we are in different approaches to life choices but the value systems are very different from here in the States. If you have a question about Taiwan I'm happy to hear it but please don't try and enlighten me on a country I know and love from speculations you may have about the place. My wife was at a party once in Eugene and when we got home she said..."what is it with all these Americans who as soon as they ask where I'm from they start telling me about my culture?" It's like they don't respect my own knowledge of my homeland..
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This is exactly my point. So you agree with me. Got it.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
So you're on board with both? Because we can't fix everybody and we want to stop any shootings, right? After all, it's kind of bad for people's mental health when you can't go outside without risking your life.
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I am. However I see one path addressing multiple issues and another path addressing a singular issue. Im for the path that solves the most issues.
 
Phatguysrule said:
There are a few problems with getting rid of guns.

1- We can't count on police to help us.
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With what? Anything? Self-defense? We sure spend a fuck ton on the police for no return. So I guess your message is: DEFUND THE POLICE! Right on, brother!

Phatguysrule said:
2- There is no evidence that gun control works,
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Explain Australia after the Port Arthur Massacre.
 
BlazerBender said:
I am. However I see one path addressing multiple issues and another path addressing a singular issue. Im for the path that solves the most issues.
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No, you're for BOTH paths - you just said it. Also a massive expansion of the welfare state and huge environmental regulations, because there's ample evidence that pollution, poor nutrition, poor public schools and crime-ridden neighborhoods are literally damaging kids' brains. I support you, fellow traveler!
 
BlazerBender said:
This is exactly my point. So you agree with me. Got it.
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apparently not because you don't think their choices to not allow guns to be privately owned is not keeping them safer than here where they can have all they want.....you think computers are the boogey man more than access to guns and ammo....this is not us agreeing and goes back to my original post....in Taiwan your child is safer at a public parade or school than in the states. Even if they have an ipad and a cell phone. For the record I'm not an advocate of video killing games for entertainment anywhere. That I have a problem with....
 
riverman said:
apparently not because you don't think their choices to not allow guns to be privately owned is not keeping them safer than here where they can have all they want.....you think computers are the boogey man more than access to guns and ammo....this is not us agreeing and goes back to my original post....in Taiwan your child is safer at a public parade or school than in the states. Even if they have an ipad and a cell phone. For the record I'm not an advocate of video killing games for entertainment anywhere. That I have a problem with....
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My point was thier cultural behavior is significantly different from ours. You posted evidence verifying that basically saying you agree with me.
Now if you dont agree its an issue that is one thing.
However, I find it quite contradicting to point to a country and say, “See they have the same things as us and don't have the same issues.”
But then claim how culturally different we are.
The answer is right there.
 
BlazerBender said:
My point was thier cultural behavior is significantly different from ours. You posted evidence verifying that basically saying you agree with me.
Now if you dont agree its an issue that is one thing.
However, I find it quite contradicting to point to a country and say, “See they have the same things as us and don't have the same issues.”
But then claim how culturally different we are.
The answer is right there.
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They don't have the same things as us...they don't have guns...it's not difficult to understand...and that is the answer ...I'm not pointing to a country...you said I was from Vietnam or Korea or something....I just clarified it for you. I'm pointing out one thing.....access to guns and living without access to guns.....all the other stuff is not the topic of controversy here. I've lived in both systems....have you? Taiwanese culture isn't contingent on their gun laws...American culture is really ingrained in gun ownership....this .is a major difference but it's laws, not culture. They don't have this antiquated amendment to bear arms there. ...we do.
 
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riverman said:
They don't have the same things as us...they don't have guns...it's not difficult to understand...and that is the answer ...I'm not pointing to a country...you said I was from Vietnam or Korea or something....I just clarified it for you. I'm pointing out one thing.....access to guns and living without access to guns.....all the other stuff is not the topic of controversy here. I've lived in both systems....have you?
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Hello,

you quoted me and my post, which was very much on topic about cultural differences. How do I know,? because I posted it without quoting or tagging anything else. You then decided to interact, so I am sorry but you have no room to state I'm not on topic.
If you are trying to change it back to guns, guns guns, fine, but please recognize the timeline of posts and who is changing what who is discussing what.
Yes they do have guns. They ALSO have a much different family cultural dynamic as you yourself admitted.
No one is saying guns are not PART of the problem, but those blaming only guns are ignoring everything else that is a problem which could also solve many more things than the gun problem.
Hence the disagreement.
 
BlazerBender said:
Hello,

you quoted me and my post, which was very much on topic about cultural differences.

If you are trying to change it back to guns guns guns, fine, but please recognize the timeline of posts and who is changing what who is discussing what.
Yes they do not have guns. They ALSO have a much different family cultural dynamic.
No one is avoid guns as part of the problem, but those blaming only guns are ignoring everything else as a problem.
Hence the disagreement.
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this thread is about mass shootings...that's what is being discussed. I'm not ignoring social problems at all....I'm making a simple comparison about safety and gun access...I quoted you when you seemed to assume Rasta was an american. He and I have lived in more than one political system...if you want to know about that, I offered to give you some insight but hey...I think you've got it figured out without my help...we're at an impasse here
 
riverman said:
this thread is about mass shootings...that's what is being discussed. I'm not ignoring social problems at all....I'm making a simple comparison about safety and gun access...
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And my post was about how our cultural mindset is aiding this.
 
riverman said:
show me how many mass shootings of innocents compare especially children in schools in those countries.....homicide is often linked to organized crime ...that's not a fair comparison to mass shootings in movie theatres hospitals, churches and schools....the IRA was at war with England so they had an armed resistance that also contributed to homicides just like our organized crime here. that's always been around. You're not selling me on guns lowering murderrates though...they don't.
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I'm not trying to sell you on guns lowering murder rates. But the evidence doesn't support your claims that guns are the problem either.

Guns certainly lowered murder and crime rates in Brazil...
 
crandc said:
I know men who have boyfriends. Don't conflate gay men with rape.
He deserves to rot in prison.
Rape is never acceptable.
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Rape is 100% acceptable for this monster. I don’t care about it being men. I don’t care if it’s a tennis racket.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
With what? Anything? Self-defense? We sure spend a fuck ton on the police for no return. So I guess your message is: DEFUND THE POLICE! Right on, brother!


Explain Australia after the Port Arthur Massacre.
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Their intentional homicide rates dropped about as fast as ours did here in the US while we doubled the number of guns and let the assault weapons ban expire.

Can you explain Australia before the Port Arthur Massacre? There were none like that before...
 
In today's America it's become increasingly clear that the safe road is to avoid crowds and crowded venues at all costs...sucks but you literally take your life in your own hands to risk being part of any large gathering these days.
 
SO! When is the next mass shooting so we can prepare excuses as to why it’s EVERYTHING on earth’s fault but the actual device used to massacre innocent people, the gun. If you hear, let me know.

And how ironic if it’s here in Portland and it’s ME that get’s taken out.
 
riverman said:
In today's America it's become increasingly clear that the safe road is to avoid crowds and crowded venues at all costs...sucks but you literally take your life in your own hands to risk being part of any large gathering these days.
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And that's just from the Covid.
 
Good news is he bought this weapon 100% legally. I’m so relieved. The system is working like a charm.
 
Part of me wonders if he dressed as a woman to also implicate that it was someone in the LBGTQ community.
 
julius said:
Part of me wonders if he dressed as a woman to also implicate that it was someone in the LBGTQ community.
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False flag horseshit is definitely in the wheelhouse of people who think like him (see also Republicans tagging their own houses with spraypaint to look like victims), but it really doesn't matter why he did it. He did it, and now people who want to view us as villains will have this to justify it.
 
BlazerBender said:
My point was thier cultural behavior is significantly different from ours. You posted evidence verifying that basically saying you agree with me.
Now if you dont agree its an issue that is one thing.
However, I find it quite contradicting to point to a country and say, “See they have the same things as us and don't have the same issues.”
But then claim how culturally different we are.
The answer is right there.
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What he was saying was kids there are on screens just as much if not more than kids here. The difference is there are no guns there for the kids to actually use, therefore we aren't seeing these mass shootings there.

He's not arguing that kids being on screen all day is a good thing. I'm sure he would agree it's not.

Yes, kids spend time with their grandparents while their parents work there. But kids are still on screens there during that time. He said they are even on computers at school more than here.

If you gave the kids there access to guns, would there be problems? You bet. No guns there.
 
I really enjoy how consistently EL PRESIDENTE will post shit from Twitter about some person doing crime possibly being trans. Every fucking time. It's always him. Really makes a person think.
 
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