Massachusetts going from Blue to Brown?

[Denny Crane]

So what was the rallying call? "No - I won't stand aside and let you take hard-earned money from the rich and use it to pay for health care for the poor - I couldn't live with myself!"

Yeah, this guy sounds like a real winner:

But Mr. Brown was able to appeal to independents who were anxious about the economy and concerned about the direction taken by Democrats, now that they control all the branches of government, both on Beacon Hill and in Washington. He rallied his supporters when he said, at the last debate, that he was not running for Mr. Kennedy’s seat but for “the people’s seat.”

It was a sharp swing of the pendulum, but even Democratic voters said they wanted the Obama administration to change direction.

Mr. Brown ran strongest in the suburbs of Boston, where the independent voters who make up a majority in Massachusetts turned out in large numbers.

 

[44Thrilla]

The Dems went from the biggest majority since the 1920's to the 2nd biggest majority since the 1920's.

 

[maxiep]

So what was the rallying call? "No - I won't stand aside and let you take hard-earned money from the rich and use it to pay for health care for the poor - I couldn't live with myself!"

Yeah, this guy sounds like a real winner:

It seems the people of the Commonwealth disagree with your conclusions.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ook_at_massachusetts_election_night_poll_data

 

[STOMP]

Probably not, but this guy is making it closer than it should be. Scott Brown, the Republican nominee for the special election to finish Ted Kennedy's term. I like the cut of his jib, however. Check out this answer. David Gergen shows his true colors once again.

what, of trying to ask a tough question?

I caught an extended bit of this debate this morning on the boob and Gergen wasn't throwing softballs to either candidate. The irony of claiming he was showing bias here runs thick

STOMP

 

[maxiep]

what, of trying to ask a tough question?

I caught an extended bit of this debate this morning on the boob and Gergen wasn't throwing softballs to either candidate. The irony of claiming he was showing bias here runs thick

STOMP

David Gergen believes it was Ted Kennedy's seat. It's the assumption that's so insulting.

 

[Denny Crane]

Jim Webb is smart.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0110/On_to_Plan_C.html

Senator Jim Webb puts out a statement that puts the notion of a quick Senate vote out of reach and pretty much makes a certification fight moot:

In many ways the campaign in Massachusetts became a referendum not only on health care reform but also on the openness and integrity of our government process. It is vital that we restore the respect of the American people in our system of government and in our leaders. To that end, I believe it would only be fair and prudent that we suspend further votes on health care legislation until Senator-elect Brown is seated.

And good luck getting Lieberman to vote for cloture this week anyway.

 

[deception]

The Dems went from the biggest majority since the 1920's to the 2nd biggest majority since the 1920's.

thats the truth and dems should starting acting like it now. playing nice in the sandbox is losing traction with the public. the ppl gave them that historical majority and with that was a mandate to get shit done. this deal making no-sense with that "rat" joseph lieberman and the conservative democrats is maddening.

here's lieberman's take on this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/19/lieberman-urges-party-to_n_428686.html

Eager to prove that the Democratic Party left him and not the other way around, Sen. Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.) urged his colleagues on Tuesday to move to the "center" following a humbling Senate race in Massachusetts.

"I think the message is from the voters of Massachusetts that people are anxious about the future and they're unhappy about what's happening in Washington," said the Connecticut Independent Democrat, during an interview on Fox News. "They're anxious about the economy, the continued high unemployment. They don't like all the partisanship and deal-making here in Washington. And they're really skeptical about the health care bill."

"So this is going to be a loud message from Massachusetts and whether it's right or wrong, I was impressed again by one of the national polls I saw yesterday that said two things; one is opposition to health care reform is very large among independents, unregistered with the party voters, and Massachusetts is thought of as a blue state and it generally does vote Democratic but almost 50% of the voters are unaffiliated so they've got the liberty to..."

 

[yakbladder]

I'm sorry..I know GOP'ers..or more appropriately anti-Dems will spin this to be a "referendum" but that's a pretty far stretch. For some people I'm sure it was, but Coakley was a horrible, horrible candidate. The things she said and the way she ran her campaign showed a complete indifference to the people and almost a feeling that she was entitled to the position. You could've run Bush out there and he'd have won against her.

If the Dems have any balls at all, they'll pass a modified health care package before Brown is seated.

But they don't, so it will fail once again. Rejoice all of you people with insurance stock! You've managed to screw the country once again. I notice none of you are clamoring for a new set of changes to health care, just that your side "won".

Fantastic. The absolute #1 problem with politics in America is most people treat it more like a basketball game with teams than a cooperative venture to decide the best choices for everyone.

 

[yakbladder]

thats the truth and dems should starting acting like it now. playing nice in the sandbox is losing traction with the public. the ppl gave them that historical majority and with that was a mandate to get shit done. this deal making no-sense with that "rat" joseph lieberman and the conservative democrats is maddening.

here's lieberman's take on this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/19/lieberman-urges-party-to_n_428686.html

If Reid wants to keep his post, and Obama wants to boost his ratings they should both come out publicly and tell little Joe to piss off and ask for him not to caucus with the Dems.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm sorry..I know GOP'ers..or more appropriately anti-Dems will spin this to be a "referendum" but that's a pretty far stretch. For some people I'm sure it was, but Coakley was a horrible, horrible candidate. The things she said and the way she ran her campaign showed a complete indifference to the people and almost a feeling that she was entitled to the position. You could've run Bush out there and he'd have won against her.

If the Dems have any balls at all, they'll pass a modified health care package before Brown is seated.

But they don't, so it will fail once again. Rejoice all of you people with insurance stock! You've managed to screw the country once again. I notice none of you are clamoring for a new set of changes to health care, just that your side "won".

Fantastic. The absolute #1 problem with politics in America is most people treat it more like a basketball game with teams than a cooperative venture to decide the best choices for everyone.

I simply don't like this Bill. I've posted a number of times that I favor a government option, specifically one that competes with the insurance companies and doctors and hospitals. This Bill doesn't have it, and never did.

This Bill is a mandate to give money to the insurance companies. Since when are you for corporate welfare?

I really don't see why we should tax everyone in a bad economy to pay the insurance companies. There's little in the Bill that addresses the cost of insurance. It was horribly filled with $300M here and $300M there to buy senate and house votes - money that can certainly be better spent (pay down the debt, reduce the deficits!).

If they want to pass a Bill that will get 100 votes in the senate, they could. Strip out the taxes and mandates and keep the few provisions that don't cost us anything. Things like portability and ability to buy across state lines and import drugs at lower cost and allow people to buy insurance as members of coops.

There's actually an opportunity to do something good that's soooo less drastic and we can actually see if those things have good effect.

 

[deception]

If Reid wants to keep his post, and Obama wants to boost his ratings they should both come out publicly and tell little Joe to piss off and ask for him not to caucus with the Dems.

any time i see lieberman speak- i just want to break his nose. reid needs to get newt and start getting gangsta and the president needs to inherit his predecessor's total disregard for the other side

 

[maxiep]

I'm sorry..I know GOP'ers..or more appropriately anti-Dems will spin this to be a "referendum" but that's a pretty far stretch. For some people I'm sure it was, but Coakley was a horrible, horrible candidate. The things she said and the way she ran her campaign showed a complete indifference to the people and almost a feeling that she was entitled to the position. You could've run Bush out there and he'd have won against her.

If the Dems have any balls at all, they'll pass a modified health care package before Brown is seated.

But they don't, so it will fail once again. Rejoice all of you people with insurance stock! You've managed to screw the country once again. I notice none of you are clamoring for a new set of changes to health care, just that your side "won".

Fantastic. The absolute #1 problem with politics in America is most people treat it more like a basketball game with teams than a cooperative venture to decide the best choices for everyone.

It would be the equivalent of a Republican winning in Multnomah County or for Mayor of DC. You could run a cold piece of dog crap and if it had a "D" next to it's name, it would take 60% of the vote. Don't kid yourself, this was a referendum on Obama's Big Government programs, and a crushing defeat.

 

[yakbladder]

I simply don't like this Bill. I've posted a number of times that I favor a government option, specifically one that competes with the insurance companies and doctors and hospitals. This Bill doesn't have it, and never did.

This Bill is a mandate to give money to the insurance companies. Since when are you for corporate welfare?

I really don't see why we should tax everyone in a bad economy to pay the insurance companies. There's little in the Bill that addresses the cost of insurance. It was horribly filled with $300M here and $300M there to buy senate and house votes - money that can certainly be better spent (pay down the debt, reduce the deficits!).

If they want to pass a Bill that will get 100 votes in the senate, they could. Strip out the taxes and mandates and keep the few provisions that don't cost us anything. Things like portability and ability to buy across state lines and import drugs at lower cost and allow people to buy insurance as members of coops.

There's actually an opportunity to do something good that's soooo less drastic and we can actually see if those things have good effect.

I don't like the Senate version. I like more of the House version.

I, like you, would like to see something closer to the Swiss version.

However, I honestly believe that without one kernel of fundamental change no one has the ability to ever "think outside the box". We're so afraid of trying anything "radically new" - although it's been test driven a few dozen times around the world - that we get caught up in these mindsets that are oblivious to any change at all.

Was either bill the best solution? Hell no. Would the "best solution" pass Congress? Hell no. Would even a moderate step that had really good elements get GOP support? I honestly believe, hell no. They don't want to give anything away that might be conceived as a victory because then their team "lost". Pre-Reagan I can remember a few times when everyone came together. Now it's just one big pissing match. That's why I keep saying the Dems need to just show some balls, write up whatever the hell they want, tell the blue dog Dems that if they don't support it they'll never see a cent of federal money and push the thing through. At first there will be a wave of putrid anger and hate and then after a few years when people actually see the benefits they might remember that and vote for more change.

But since when has anybody thought long-term...

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Wow . . . this will make for an interesting election this coming fall with lots of seats on the line.

I don't know if this is about the canidates or a statement from the voters taht they are not happy with Obama . . . but we are going to find out.

I think Obama is finding out the voting public is not patient and that he will be blamed (right or wrong) for the current situation in the US.

Kind of like a basketball coach, you get the blame and are the first name mentioned to get rid of when thigns aren't good.

Not that I feel sorry for Obama, it goes with the teritory and he created some of this (if not most). Should have taken on health care in his second term . . .

 

[STOMP]

David Gergen believes it was Ted Kennedy's seat. It's the assumption that's so insulting.

so it wasn't Ted Kennedy's seat???

You're getting fired up over semantics and claiming bias over something that rates below a mole hill as an issue

STOMP

 

[maxiep]

so it wasn't Ted Kennedy's seat???

You're getting fired up over semantics and pointing fingers claiming bias over absolutely nothing.

STOMP

Nope. It was the People's seat. Didn't you learn anything from this election? It wasn't semantics. Gergen asked directly how Brown could vote against something that Ted Kennedy had championed for most of his life.

 

[yakbladder]

It would be the equivalent of a Republican winning in Multnomah County or for Mayor of DC. You could run a cold piece of dog crap and if it had a "D" next to it's name, it would take 60% of the vote. Don't kid yourself, this is a crushing defeat for Obama's Big Government programs.

Actually, a cold piece of dog crap would do better than her because the crap wouldn't say such asinine things!

Don't kid yourself, this is not all about Obama's "Big Government" programs. If you see a massive loss in mid-terms, sure. But one race with such obvious personality issues doesn't make much of a statement. If it does to you then I'd hate to see the research studies you base your life around...

 

[maxiep]

Actually, a cold piece of dog crap would do better than her because the crap wouldn't say such asinine things!

Don't kid yourself, this is not all about Obama's "Big Government" programs. If you see a massive loss in mid-terms, sure. But one race with such obvious personality issues doesn't make much of a statement. If it does to you then I'd hate to see the research studies you base your life around...

Okay, here's one: the closest Massachusetts Senate race in the past decade was John Kerry's 35 point margin. Seriously, Coakley was up 30 points in this race two months ago.

 

[ABM]

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1226797&srvc=home&position=active

“I never thought I’d see the day when a Republican replaces Ted Kennedy,” Mayor Thomas M. Menino told the Herald tonight. “I think Scott Brown caught the wave of anger that’s out there, and the wave of anti-Obama.”

 

[ABM]

What's next, a Romney/Brown ticket in 2012?

 

[STOMP]

Nope. It was the People's seat. Didn't you learn anything from this election? It wasn't semantics. Gergen asked directly how Brown could vote against something that Ted Kennedy had championed for most of his life.

you are being ridiculous and insulting which is expected when someone points out your BS. It was Teddy's seat for decades... that is an inarguable fact. It was also the people's seat if one wants to split hairs and raise a fake issue to become insulted by. Again, I saw this debate in context not just in the short clip you relayed... from FOX no less Claims of it being an example of bias are laughable and expected coming from someone I've come to expect bias from. The politician gave a solid answer to the question seizing on the duplicity of the meaning of the words, but it was a legitimate question with reasonable language

STOMP

 

[blazerboy30]

coming from someone I've come to expect bias from.

STOMP

Sounds like you have a bias of your own. I guess we have to throw out your opinion.

 

[STOMP]

Sounds like you have a bias of your own. I guess we have to throw out your opinion.

Really? Because I'm not willing to buy BS I'm biased? I guess we all have some, but mine isn't joined at the hip to the Dems or Reps like a plus I'm not wailing about the meanies in the news. For the record, I'm 42 and vote in every election. I've voted for both Republican and Democrats at every level of government usually dependent on the candidate. I've also voted for many candidates outside of those two parties... I don't think either the Ds or Rs have my best interests in mind

STOMP

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

UNBELIEVABLE!!!

In an overwhelming dem state, an unknown GOP just kicks assssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss over a socialist opponent expected to win with complete ease, and essentially wins one of the most improbable major elections since Truman defeated Dewey.

No wonder several key dems have all of a sudden opted to "retire" rather than face humiliating near certain defeats after this health care and obamanomic catastrophes.

I'll say this- starting with the GOP wins when Clinton was President, to the demorat overthrowing the GOP in the last election or two to the very real possibility the next two elections will again swing the balance of power in DC make this Congress the most unstable in the history of the country.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Really? Because I'm not willing to buy BS I'm biased? I guess we all have some, but mine isn't joined at the hip to the Dems or Reps like a plus I'm not wailing about the meanies in the news. For the record, I'm 42 and vote in every election. I've voted for both Republican and Democrats at every level of government usually dependent on the candidate. I've also voted for many candidates outside of those two parties... I don't think either the Ds or Rs have my best interests in mind

STOMP

I think in their own ways both the GOP and socialists have people's best interests at heart, it's just that neither side has a lock on what the people really want and need. Add to that, like it or not, we haven't a true leader in the White House since Regan. We're like a rudderless ship in DC.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

American people are pissed. PERIOD

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

American people are pissed. PERIOD

Agreed.

 

[maxiep]

you are being ridiculous and insulting which is expected when someone points out your BS.

How am I being insulting? The intent of David Gergen's question was clear.

It was Teddy's seat for decades... that is an inarguable fact. It was also the people's seat if one wants to split hairs and raise a fake issue to become insulted by. Again, I saw this debate in context not just in the short clip you relayed... from FOX no less Claims of it being an example of bias are laughable and expected coming from someone I've come to expect bias from.

Well, Ted's dead. He died much later than he would have had he not received the health care he tried to deny everyone else. Gergen's question was a "gotcha" attempt that showed the worst of the inside-the-beltway mentality: The seat wasn't the people's; it was Ted Kennedy's.

As for the answer, he answered it completely. The first part of his answer was to dismiss the fallacy that somehow whoever took the seat owed the Kennedy's something. The second part of his answer discussed why the current health care bill was a bad one.

The politician gave a solid answer to the question seizing on the duplicity of the meaning of the words, but it was a legitimate question with reasonable language

I agree he gave a solid answer. However, what you missed was the subtext to the question. I spent almost a decade in DC. I know countless people who have worked at the White House and in both houses of Congress. I think I understand the inside the beltway mentality better than you. If you disagree, tell me why.

 

[Shooter]

HOLY COW!! MASSACHUSETTS ELECTED A REPUBLICAN SENATOR!!!

If a Republican can win in Massachussetts (and in NJ and Virginia), then Obama and the Democrats are in some deep doo-doo. Consider the fact that only 12% of the voters in MA are Republican, and this election takes on HUGE IMPLICATIONS.

This is a clear rejection of Obama's vision of "change" and what he wants to do with this country. America has finally awoken from its slumber and is speaking out loud and clear.

 

[maxiep]

HOLY COW!! MASSACHUSETTS ELECTED A REPUBLICAN SENATOR!!!

If a Republican can win in Massachussetts (and in NJ and Virginia), then Obama and the Democrats are in some deep doo-doo. Consider the fact that only 12% of the voters in MA are Republican, and this election takes on HUGE IMPLICATIONS.

This is a clear rejection of Obama's vision of "change" and what he wants to do with this country. America has finally awoken from its slumber and is speaking out loud and clear.

You hit on what many spinners are trying to deny. It's not just Massachusetts; that's the cherry on top you never expected. It's the victories in Virginia, which had hugely trended blue as of late and New Fucking Jersey, which blows my mind. This isn't a one-off; it's a strong trend.