Notice Matisse Thybulle came to Portland via the Josh Hart trade

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AmirIcon said:
We keep conjuring up why all the deals made were actually good. You pay more money to better players. Look at...

- Our record since the trade
- Dame asking out
- Now we have to rebuild

We can talk about who wanted to go where and for what cost but the front office has been completely ineffective since taking over for Olshey who had his own issues.

This gives me John Nash vibes all over again. But Cronin is such a nice man!
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Completely ineffective?? The front office had us tank twice and got us Sharpe and Scoot. That is a major credit to them. Best moves we’ve made since drafting Dame.
 
Natebishop3 said:
That's why I have you here. When is the last time I took a hard stance on a topic and was proven to be wrong?
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You usually take a stance unprovable things, so you can always claim you're right!
 
Natebishop3 said:
You didn't win. :lol:

We're going to revisit this after he re-signs with NY for well over what we would have wanted to pay him.
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A great example of an unprovable claim you like to make!
 
wizenheimer said:
gawddam...there are a lot of fights in this forum right now. I feel bad I'm not in any

I need to pick a fight with somebody...anybody. Maybe Nate because he punches like a girl...a drunk girl with iron-poor blood. Is that sexist? I can't tell anymore
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I'm in the same boat... bring it on!
 
Tince said:
A great example of an unprovable claim you like to make!
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I already said that there have been rumors that NY is going to sign him for 20 mil per year.

Setting aside the reports that he wanted to go to NY anyway, do you think we would have gone into the luxury tax for Hart? Especially with Dame leaving?
 
Natebishop3 said:
I already said that there have been rumors that NY is going to sign him for 20 mil per year.

Setting aside the reports that he wanted to go to NY anyway, do you think we would have gone into the luxury tax for Hart? Especially with Dame leaving?
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You don't think disassembling our team by trading Hart and GP2 for inferior talents just to save money had anything to do with Dame wanting out? This comes down to the franchise wanting to be cheap. Better players cost more money. Frankly, if we're going to rebuild I don't think I keep either Hart or Thybulle. But dollar to dollar, Hart is the superior talent by a significant margin.
 
Strenuus said:
Wut? Dude it's NYC. His family wanted to be there. His family didn't want to be here.

Like wtf bullshit is that? Like at least use logic and common sense once when you post.
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Hart just wanted a place to move his family to where he could settle down long term. It didn't have to be NY; Blazers instead moved on with a preference of Thybulle, paying Grant $160 million, avoiding any possible tax from Hart, and the pick.
 
RR7 said:
Dude was not going to opt in here. Opting in to NY does not by any means signify he would have opted in here. It's quite obvious he wanted to be back east for his wife. But hey, if it helps people bash Joe, so be it I guess?

There's one trade where there can be an argument made where he was "fleeced". There really isn't for any other. And just repeating it doesn't make it so.
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Wrong, Hart wanted a place to move his family, it didn't have to by NYC.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I already said that there have been rumors that NY is going to sign him for 20 mil per year.

Setting aside the reports that he wanted to go to NY anyway, do you think we would have gone into the luxury tax for Hart? Especially with Dame leaving?
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I don't. I thought it was a solid trade for Portland.

I also can't say that whatever Hart gets next summer, Portland would've never given him. There is no way to prove what Portland would've given him.
 
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RR7 said:
I don't understand the relevance of you telling people to read the CBA in general. But the MLE is 12.2. He makes 12.9. Guys sacrifice a little bit of $$ to be some where they prefer. With his statements on his wife, I don't think it's at all far fetched to think he would opt out if still here, and sign for 12.2 elsewhere. But you know what? It doesn't matter! You can't prove he would have stayed here. I can't prove he would have left. I think it's pretty obvious with statements about his wife, that he would have left. But regardless, we traded away a free agent, or potential free agent, for an all defensive team level wing and a 1st round pick. That's great value for an expiring guy.
Here's where you can shout again about Joe being fleeced.
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Hart wanted a long term home; not specifically east coast. This was sourced by multiple reports prior to free agency.
 
KingSpeed said:
Completely ineffective?? The front office had us tank twice and got us Sharpe and Scoot. That is a major credit to them. Best moves we’ve made since drafting Dame.
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You don't tank when your franchise player is in his prime. What has Cronin done that actually required brain power that resulted in something good other than Jerami Grant which Dame put together? Anyone can tank. But not everyone lies to their franchise player about what they'll do once they tank.
 
RR7 said:
We picked 7th and 3rd in seasons we had Hart. We sucked anyways! If we're vastly inferior now, then maybe we'll get the top pick.
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And for some reason we handed Grant $160 million and Nurk $70 million who were equally responsible for these shit seasons.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Hart was not going to take the MLE if the Blazers offered him more long term. Blazers weren't interested.
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try to follow along with the conversation if you're gonna hop in and quote me. It was n reference to his current salary, which is roughly MLE level. SO if he opted out HERE, he could have gotten close to the same in an area of preference.
 
Tince said:
I don't. I thought it was a solid trade for Portland.

I also can't say that whatever Hart gets next summer, Portland would've never given him. There is no way to prove what Portland would've given him.
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I'm fine with trading Hart for the pick if the Blazers are rebuilding.

But then you don't trade the Duren pick for Jeremy Grant. You don't sign GPII. That was the stupid thing about Cronin's moves; he made a combination of stupid win now moves and stupid rebuilding moves. Make moves one direction or the other.

Cronin nailed the draft. The other 364 days of the year he has left a lot to be desired.
 
RR7 said:
try to follow along with the conversation if you're gonna hop in and quote me. It was n reference to his current salary, which is roughly MLE level. SO if he opted out HERE, he could have gotten close to the same in an area of preference.
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Hart was happy in PDX; he didn't have a preference to be elsewhere. If the Blazers showed him the long term commitment they showed Nurk/Grant/Thybulle he would've been happy to stay here.
 
Tince said:
You usually take a stance unprovable things, so you can always claim you're right!
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Let’s see… the times I have truly dug in on a topic.

Me: LMA is going to leave so we should trade him.

Reality: LMA left and we should have traded him.

Me: Dame is saying if we use the pick he’s gonna request a trade. Or at least have a conversation about leaving the team.

Reality: Blazers used the pick and Dame demanded a trade.

Me: Thybulle was part of the Hart trade.

Reality: Thybulle was part of the Hart trade.

:dunno:
 
KingSpeed said:
Completely ineffective?? The front office had us tank twice and got us Sharpe and Scoot. That is a major credit to them. Best moves we’ve made since drafting Dame.
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Tanking is not a skill that makes a GM good.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Hart was happy in PDX; he didn't have a preference to be elsewhere. If the Blazers showed him the long term commitment they showed Nurk/Grant/Thybulle he would've been happy to stay here.
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He specifically mentioned being an east coast guy, and how difficult being here was on his pregnant wife.
 
AmirIcon said:
You don't think disassembling our team by trading Hart and GP2 for inferior talents just to save money had anything to do with Dame wanting out? This comes down to the franchise wanting to be cheap. Better players cost more money. Frankly, if we're going to rebuild I don't think I keep either Hart or Thybulle. But dollar to dollar, Hart is the superior talent by a significant margin.
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Thybulle is 26 and he’s an extremely good defender. He’s also making much less than people are projecting for Hart. It fits rebuilding a lot more than Hart does.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
I'm fine with trading Hart for the pick if the Blazers are rebuilding.

But then you don't trade the Duren pick for Jeremy Grant. You don't sign GPII. That was the stupid thing about Cronin's moves; he made a combination of stupid win now moves and stupid rebuilding moves. Make moves one direction or the other.

Cronin nailed the draft. The other 364 days of the year he has left a lot to be desired.
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I think of Cronin was truly planning on a rebuild all along, he probably would've just traded Dame last year and never traded for Grant.

In hindsight, you could say we should've traded Dame in the summer of 2019 when his value was the highest.
 
AmirIcon said:
You don't tank when your franchise player is in his prime. What has Cronin done that actually required brain power that resulted in something good other than Jerami Grant which Dame put together? Anyone can tank. But not everyone lies to their franchise player about what they'll do once they tank.
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Our franchise player is 33.

Where did he lie?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Let’s see… the times I have truly dug in on a topic.

Me: LMA is going to leave so we should trade him.

Reality: LMA left and we should have traded him.

Me: Dame is saying if we use the pick he’s gonna request a trade. Or at least have a conversation about leaving the team.

Reality: Blazers used the pick and Dame demanded a trade.

Me: Thybulle was part of the Hart trade.

Reality: Thybulle was part of the Hart trade.

:dunno:
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You: This (2020-21 team) is the worst Blazer team I have seen in my lifetime.

Reality: It was no where close to the worst Blazer team in recent years, let alone your lifetime. But you dug in anyway.

I'm with you on the Thybulle/Hart trade, as it is a fact, there is no debate.
 
Tince said:
You: This (2020-21 team) is the worst Blazer team I have seen in my lifetime.

Reality: It was no where close to the worst Blazer team in recent years, let alone your lifetime.

I'm with you on the Thybulle/Hart trade, as it is a fact, there is no debate.
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Ah ok. So me posting a meme when I was pissed at the team and then making fun of it is the same as digging in?
 
RR7 said:
He specifically mentioned being an east coast guy, and how difficult being here was on his pregnant wife.
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Yes because his wife didn't live here with him since the Blazers wouldn't commit long term to him. Of course that was hard. If he had a long term commitment he'd have moved his wife to PDX and they'd have setup a home here for their family. Dude just wanted a place to settle down. Cronin and the Blazers weren't interested.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Ah ok. So me posting a meme when I was pissed at the team and then making fun of it is the same as digging in?
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Every post is uniquely different. Including the LMA, Dame, and Thybulle points/postings. I never said any of them were exactly the same, nor would I.

I understand why you would want to downplay the one you were way off base on though. That was kinda my point.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Our franchise player is 33.

Where did he lie?
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Really dude? He didn't say he was going to put all his chips in? To build around Dame?

Come on, Nathaniel. You know better.

Do better.

It's your prerogative to like the direction, but don't act like he didn't lie his ass off to Dame and the fanbase. Ric Bucher just said they also lied to Dame and the fans. Why are you challenging the facts?
 
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