Meeting between Dame and Cronin today

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RR7 said:
I don't think the issue is resolved by any means, but you know damn well if a trade demand came out of this conversation, and was reported, you'd go all “pwn the libs” yourself. So don't act like it's one sided. You STILL talk about your stance on LaMarcus leaving, and it's been 8 years.
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Go back to the moment where LMA officially signed with San Antonio. I did not make some post dunking on the people who disagreed with me. I didn't call anyone out by name. I didn't insult anyone, even though I had taken a lot of abuse over the matter.

I bring up the LMA situation, not because I ended up being right, but because once again we are in a situation where a number of posters are personally attacking the people who disagree with them. THAT is why I keep bringing it up. Also because we got nothing for LMA and if we are going to lose Dame, I'd like to make sure we get SOME compensation.

But please, find me a post where I insulted a bunch of people who disagreed with me. Find my victory lap.
 
RR7 said:
I don't think the issue is resolved by any means, but you know damn well if a trade demand came out of this conversation, and was reported, you'd go all “pwn the libs” yourself. So don't act like it's one sided. You STILL talk about your stance on LaMarcus leaving, and it's been 8 years.
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You look at it as being 8 years, but it was the last time he was right about something, so it's understandable it's fresh in his memory.
 
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Natebishop3 said:
Go back to the moment where LMA officially signed with San Antonio. I did not make some post dunking on the people who disagreed with me. I didn't call anyone out by name. I didn't insult anyone, even though I had taken a lot of abuse over the matter.

I bring up the LMA situation, not because I ended up being right, but because once again we are in a situation where a number of posters are personally attacking the people who disagree with them. THAT is why I keep bringing it up. Also because we got nothing for LMA and if we are going to lose Dame, I'd like to make sure we get SOME compensation.

But please, find me a post where I insulted a bunch of people who disagreed with me. Find my victory lap.
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Can I just flip you crap instead?
 
Tince said:
You look at it as being 8 years, but it was the last time he was right about something, so it's understandable it's fresh in his memory.
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I was right that you're secretly a fan of the band Nickelback and you like to put mayonnaise on your burgers like a savage.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Go back to the moment where LMA officially signed with San Antonio. I did not make some post dunking on the people who disagreed with me. I didn't call anyone out by name. I didn't insult anyone, even though I had taken a lot of abuse over the matter.

I bring up the LMA situation, not because I ended up being right, but because once again we are in a situation where a number of posters are personally attacking the people who disagree with them. THAT is why I keep bringing it up. Also because we got nothing for LMA and if we are going to lose Dame, I'd like to make sure we get SOME compensation.

But please, find me a post where I insulted a bunch of people who disagreed with me. Find my victory lap.
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Not interested in pulling up 8 year old posts. You however have mentioned it occasionally in this Dame situation. Maybe not "dunking" on people, but you like referencing you were "right". And have no doubt you'll be happy to do the same if this Dame stuff comes to a head.
 
B-Roy said:
San Antonio can absorb Nurk and Ant into capspace for nothing. If I'm doing my math correctly, signing Jerami to a 5/150 allows us to start him at 25.6. Let's assume we sign Matisse at around 6.5 the first year. If we dump Nurk + Ant + Keon, this lets us offer Draymond a starting salary of around 25M, and the total contract will be around 4/112. We can probably get up to 30M AAV if we need. If we just dump Nurk + Ant then we can only offer 4/100. If we dump Nurk + Ant + Nassir we can offer 4/125.

Not saying this is the path, but it's technically possible?

@wizenheimer And other cap experts, I added the 9.7 from Scoot and 2.8 of Kris Murray, but I don't remember if we can wait to sign them, just incur the incomplete roster charge (which is like ~$1m each?) instead of their actual salaries. This would give us a lot more wiggle room since Scoot is almost 10M and Kris is 3M.

Order of operations is critical here:

1.) Sign Jerami and Matisse - their actual starting salaries much lower than their cap holds.
2.) Sign Draymond.
3.) Sign rookies.

EDIT: NVM 1st round picks have a cap hold. Scoot and Kris have a cap hold, but Rupert does not. This means we need to dump Nassir or Keon as well unless Draymond is willing to take less.
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I don't think we'd need to do that. I think Golden State is still trying to win, and if Draymond says he wants to sign here, they would want to get SOMETHING back out of the deal. I get there's bad blood, but I can't imagine they'd rather have nothing instead of Nurk+filler.
 
RR7 said:
Not interested in pulling up 8 year old posts. You however have mentioned it occasionally in this Dame situation. Maybe not "dunking" on people, but you like referencing you were "right". And have no doubt you'll be happy to do the same if this Dame stuff comes to a head.
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Most of the arguments with people have been over a complete disbelief that people can interpret Dame's own words differently. I have never said that Dame is going to demand a trade. I did say that he told us twice that he'd have a separate conversation if we used the pick, which would tend to indicate that he would discuss potentially leaving the team. I have never said that I'm 100% married to trading him or keeping him. I have said multiple times that I can see both sides of the argument. So I don't know what I would be taking a victory lap about.

I think it is most likely in our best interest to trade Dame and build around Scoot and Sharpe, but if it was possible to put the right players around Dame to compete, I'm fine with that too. I just don't think it's likely. I haven't taken the hard stance on this that you seem to think that I have. With LMA, I was convinced that he was leaving. That was a completely different situation. The abuse is the same.... but my stance was different.
 
e_blazer said:
Dumb fucks say what dumb fucks say.
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Exactly and we have a lot of threads of late to prove that is true. It is one thing to debate whether or not to trade Dame, but some of the ignorant posts claiming to be so sure about knowing what Dame was thinking and what Dame was going to do because he was "lied to" was beyond ridiculous. Not saying that he still won't ask to be moved at some point, but to think he felt betrayed because of what happened on draft night was about as dumb as it gets. Not a lot of logic by a few in the last 4 days.

To be clear I am not talking about the pro vs anti-trade Dame debate, that is a legitimate argument, but some of the remarks about Dame and Joe this week were pretty fucking dumb.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Exactly and we have a lot of threads of late to prove that is true. It is one thing to debate whether or not to trade Dame, but some of the ignorant posts claiming to be so sure about knowing what Dame was thinking and what Dame was going to do because he was "lied to" was beyond ridiculous. Not saying that he still won't ask to be moved at some point, but to think he felt betrayed because of what happened on draft night was about as dumb as it gets. Not a lot of logic by a few in the last 4 days.

To be clear I am not talking about the pro vs anti-trade Dame debate, that is a legitimate argument, but some of the remarks about Dame and Joe this week were pretty fucking dumb.
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I feel bad for Joe.... because it feels like he's being setup to be the villain no matter what he does.
 
B-Roy said:
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Natebishop3 said:
Most of the arguments with people have been over a complete disbelief that people can interpret Dame's own words differently. I have never said that Dame is going to demand a trade. I did say that he told us twice that he'd have a separate conversation if we used the pick, which would tend to indicate that he would discuss potentially leaving the team. I have never said that I'm 100% married to trading him or keeping him. I have said multiple times that I can see both sides of the argument. So I don't know what I would be taking a victory lap about.

I think it is most likely in our best interest to trade Dame and build around Scoot and Sharpe, but if it was possible to put the right players around Dame to compete, I'm fine with that too. I just don't think it's likely. I haven't taken the hard stance on this that you seem to think that I have. With LMA, I was convinced that he was leaving. That was a completely different situation. The abuse is the same.... but my stance was different.
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In reading your tone and body language, you did somewhat imply that the separate conversation would be him demanding a trade.

Today was the separate conversation...
 
Tince said:
In reading your tone and body language, you did somewhat imply that the separate conversation would be him demanding a trade.

Today was the separate conversation...
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I'm not sure how you were able to read my mind while I was giving you the finger... you're quite astute!
 
Mediocre Man said:
But we do know.
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We may not, but it seems that every former NBA player and analyst with the exception of Rich Eisen believes this. I tend to side with the folks who know the in's and out's of the league.
 
Here is what I think. I think Joe told Dame that we are done tanking, just like he has been telling Dame. We are now trying to win. We don't have any more players that we are trying to get rid of, so we aren't going to be making any more "lopsided" trades. So, if you want us to, we'll let you know if a team calls us offering a fair package for you. If your agent has a fair offer he can broker we'll certainly consider it, again, if that is what you want. But it will have to be a substantial offer.

And I think Dame knows that means that any team he would go to would have to give up too much to make it more appealing than staying here.

*Edit* And with that said, we'll be looking to make good moves to balance the roster moving forward.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Here is what I think. I think Joe told Dame that we are done tanking, just like he has been telling Dame. We are now trying to win. We don't have any more players that we are trying to get rid of, so we aren't going to be making any more "lopsided" trades. So, if you want us to, we'll let you know if a team calls us offering a fair package for you. If your agent has a fair offer he can broker we'll certainly consider it, again, if that is what you want. But it will have to be a substantial offer.

And I think Dame knows that means that any team he would go to would have to give up too much to make it more appealing than staying here.
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Simons still has to go. At the very least, he has to be traded if Dame is staying and we have Scoot and Sharpe.
 
B-Roy said:
San Antonio can absorb Nurk and Ant into capspace for nothing. If I'm doing my math correctly, signing Jerami to a 5/150 allows us to start him at 25.6. Let's assume we sign Matisse at around 6.5 the first year. If we dump Nurk + Ant + Keon, this lets us offer Draymond a starting salary of around 25M, and the total contract will be around 4/112. We can probably get up to 30M AAV if we need. If we just dump Nurk + Ant then we can only offer 4/100. If we dump Nurk + Ant + Nassir we can offer 4/125.

Not saying this is the path, but it's technically possible?

@wizenheimer And other cap experts, I added the 9.7 from Scoot and 2.8 of Kris Murray, but I don't remember if we can wait to sign them, just incur the incomplete roster charge (which is like ~$1m each?) instead of their actual salaries. This would give us a lot more wiggle room since Scoot is almost 10M and Kris is 3M.

Order of operations is critical here:

1.) Sign Jerami and Matisse - their actual starting salaries much lower than their cap holds.
2.) Sign Draymond.
3.) Sign rookies.

EDIT: NVM 1st round picks have a cap hold. Scoot and Kris have a cap hold, but Rupert does not. This means we need to dump Nassir or Keon as well unless Draymond is willing to take less.
View attachment 56386
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it's actually very simple. If Blazers use the full-MLE (about 11M) they can not, for any reason, exceed the apron; they will be hard-capped again. That apron will be around 169M
 
I think if Blazers were to trade Scoot or Sharpe to make Dame happy, and we don’t win a title or even get close, a lot of fans will turn on Dame. He will greatly damage his image and legacy here in my opinion. Any win now trade that happens at this point is because of Dame.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Simons still has to go. At the very least, he has to be traded if Dame is staying and we have Scoot and Sharpe.
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Just don't want to trade Simons until there's a clear plan...He would be a good guy to keep around for at least the next couple years if Dame is gone and they can sell him on 6th man along with a small ball lineup. This is a sticky situation.
 
bemac said:
We may not, but it seems that every former NBA player and analyst with the exception of Rich Eisen believes this. I tend to side with the folks who know the in's and out's of the league.
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You got to get me that list of former NBA players and analysts that you trust. Because from what I have heard over the last 30 years, I am convinced they know less about the Blazers (and the city of Portland) than the majority of fans on this board. And that is saying something.
 
bemac said:
Just don't want to trade Simons until there's a clear plan...He would be a good guy to keep around for at least the next couple years if Dame is gone and they can sell him on 6th man along with a small ball lineup. This is a sticky situation.
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You would hope that before Cronin makes some semi-big move, Dame would provide him assurances that it was enough to end this drama for years.
 
bemac said:
Just don't want to trade Simons until there's a clear plan...He would be a good guy to keep around for at least the next couple years if Dame is gone and they can sell him on 6th man along with a small ball lineup. This is a sticky situation.
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That's the problem.... we can't keep Dame unless we improve the team and Simons is one of our only assets that we can trade.... but if we want to rebuild around Scoot and Sharpe, Simons would make sense as a third guard, so we can't trade him if we think Dame will ultimately ask out.

Chick and the egg.
 
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