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This is the thread to end all after loss threads. Should we make this a membership only thread?

  • Yes

    Votes: 30 52.6%

  • No

    Votes: 27 47.4%
  • Total voters
    57
Fairly-Hard said:
There are like 20 trade and draft threads that might say different.
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Yes, there are a lot of threads where people are overreacting to a situation that was so fucked up by our PREVIOUS gm.

The deals weren’t there for CJ. Powell, RoCo and others were overhyped by our fan base.

What we gave up to get Powell, RoCo and Nance isn’t the fault of Cronin. People can’t look at it that way.

In return for overpriced players who didn’t, or wouldn’t buy in to playoff winning basketball, we got

Bledsoe (potential $$ asset)
Winslow (when healthy he’s Kersey-lite)
Johnson (19 at the time. First round pick the year before, showed flashes)
2025 second round pick

LAC gave that up just to NOT TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS

Every team knew we we’re hamstrung $$$$ wise, and still got decent assets for players that didn’t fit that our FORMER GM brought in.


CJ is a very good offensive player, but yet there weren’t a lot teams around the league that valued him. Nance is hurt a lot. We were still able to get

Hart ( Good rotation player)
Louzada maybe (Young decent prospect)
21 million TPE (a shit ton of cap space for an additional piece)
Potential lottery pick (didn’t work out, but we still get a 1st)
Two 2nd round picks

Could we have gotten better protection? Maybe, but in undoing Olshey’s clusterfuck, Cronin did a decent job

The key is what we do with the cap space and the picks.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Yes, there are a lot of threads where people are overreacting to a situation that was so fucked up by our PREVIOUS gm.

The deals weren’t there for CJ. Powell, RoCo and others were overhyped by our fan base.

What we gave up to get Powell, RoCo and Nance isn’t the fault of Cronin. People can’t look at it that way.

In return for overpriced players who didn’t, or wouldn’t buy in to playoff winning basketball, we got

Bledsoe (potential $$ asset)
Winslow (when healthy he’s Kersey-lite)
Johnson (19 at the time. First round pick the year before, showed flashes)
2025 second round pick

LAC gave that up just to NOT TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS

Every team knew we we’re hamstrung $$$$ wise, and still got decent assets for players that didn’t fit that our FORMER GM brought in.


CJ is a very good offensive player, but yet there weren’t a lot teams around the league that valued him. Nance is hurt a lot. We were still able to get

Hart ( Good rotation player)
Louzada maybe (Young decent prospect)
21 million TPE (a shit ton of cap space for an additional piece)
Potential lottery pick (didn’t work out, but we still get a 1st)
Two 2nd round picks

Could we have gotten better protection? Maybe, but in undoing Olshey’s clusterfuck, Cronin did a decent job

The key is what we do with the cap space and the picks.
Click to expand...
Pretty much the way I see it.
By all intents and purposes the Tank got them a pick.
I’m interested in how they use it.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Yes, there are a lot of threads where people are overreacting to a situation that was so fucked up by our PREVIOUS gm.

The deals weren’t there for CJ. Powell, RoCo and others were overhyped by our fan base.

What we gave up to get Powell, RoCo and Nance isn’t the fault of Cronin. People can’t look at it that way.

In return for overpriced players who didn’t, or wouldn’t buy in to playoff winning basketball, we got

Bledsoe (potential $$ asset)
Winslow (when healthy he’s Kersey-lite)
Johnson (19 at the time. First round pick the year before, showed flashes)
2025 second round pick

LAC gave that up just to NOT TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS

Every team knew we we’re hamstrung $$$$ wise, and still got decent assets for players that didn’t fit that our FORMER GM brought in.


CJ is a very good offensive player, but yet there weren’t a lot teams around the league that valued him. Nance is hurt a lot. We were still able to get

Hart ( Good rotation player)
Louzada maybe (Young decent prospect)
21 million TPE (a shit ton of cap space for an additional piece)
Potential lottery pick (didn’t work out, but we still get a 1st)
Two 2nd round picks

Could we have gotten better protection? Maybe, but in undoing Olshey’s clusterfuck, Cronin did a decent job

The key is what we do with the cap space and the picks.
Click to expand...
Pretty much agree on most of it. But the error in trading for a pick that might not be there was so egregious that it kind of spoils it for me. He could have at the very least written in a contingency that if we got stuck with the Milwaukee pick that we would then get an additional two 2nd round picks. I have my doubts about winslow also, doesn't seem real smart to me.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Yes, there are a lot of threads where people are overreacting to a situation that was so fucked up by our PREVIOUS gm.

The deals weren’t there for CJ. Powell, RoCo and others were overhyped by our fan base.

What we gave up to get Powell, RoCo and Nance isn’t the fault of Cronin. People can’t look at it that way.

In return for overpriced players who didn’t, or wouldn’t buy in to playoff winning basketball, we got

Bledsoe (potential $$ asset)
Winslow (when healthy he’s Kersey-lite)
Johnson (19 at the time. First round pick the year before, showed flashes)
2025 second round pick

LAC gave that up just to NOT TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS

Every team knew we we’re hamstrung $$$$ wise, and still got decent assets for players that didn’t fit that our FORMER GM brought in.


CJ is a very good offensive player, but yet there weren’t a lot teams around the league that valued him. Nance is hurt a lot. We were still able to get

Hart ( Good rotation player)
Louzada maybe (Young decent prospect)
21 million TPE (a shit ton of cap space for an additional piece)
Potential lottery pick (didn’t work out, but we still get a 1st)
Two 2nd round picks

Could we have gotten better protection? Maybe, but in undoing Olshey’s clusterfuck, Cronin did a decent job

The key is what we do with the cap space and the picks.
Click to expand...
CJ just stunk it up vs the clips. I think we weren't going to get a sniff at the draft pick (or we weren't going to get Hart) if we hadn't done the clips trade early.

I think the Pels were playing hardball knowing that Cronin needed to clear cap, and that he has the Interim tag.

I think, given the situation, Cronin did fine.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Pretty much agree on most of it. But the error in trading for a pick that might not be there was so egregious that it kind of spoils it for me. He could have at the very least written in a contingency that if we got stuck with the Milwaukee pick that we would then get an additional two 2nd round picks. I have my doubts about winslow also, doesn't seem real smart to me.
Click to expand...
I think Cronin had to go to the mats just to get a shot at that pick at all.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I think Cronin had to go to the mats just to get a shot at that pick at all.
Click to expand...
I also think there is more to it. CJ has been a pillar of the community and a great teammate for years. He's earned some respect and i also feel the organization in general gained some for the way they handled the trade. It's not always black and white.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Yes, there are a lot of threads where people are overreacting to a situation that was so fucked up by our PREVIOUS gm.

The deals weren’t there for CJ. Powell, RoCo and others were overhyped by our fan base.

What we gave up to get Powell, RoCo and Nance isn’t the fault of Cronin. People can’t look at it that way.

In return for overpriced players who didn’t, or wouldn’t buy in to playoff winning basketball, we got

Bledsoe (potential $$ asset)
Winslow (when healthy he’s Kersey-lite)
Johnson (19 at the time. First round pick the year before, showed flashes)
2025 second round pick

LAC gave that up just to NOT TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS
Click to expand...

Bolded for giggles.

The Clippers gave us utter garbage. I don't think (m)any NBA fans would look at any of those assets as very positive at all, and the biggest pain point in that trade for them was probably Powell's contract... the rest (that the Blazers got) is just end-of-bench stuff.
 
Ed O said:
Bolded for giggles.

The Clippers gave us utter garbage. I don't think (m)any NBA fans would look at any of those assets as very positive at all, and the biggest pain point in that trade for them was probably Powell's contract... the rest (that the Blazers got) is just end-of-bench stuff.
Click to expand...
Yet, there were no better deals out there. I can't think of anybody who would have wanted Norm and would have given us anything that could help more.

His contract was just too big for his age and ability. Which is fine, if he's the piece that puts you over the top. But Norm wasn't going to put anybody over the top.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yet, there were no better deals out there.
Click to expand...
We don't know that. Cronin might be bad at his job.

In any case, we got worse, and if we're just looking to reload for next year, why make that deal? Let RoCo walk and use Powell off the bench. It makes no sense.

(And, for the record, we should NOT look to compete next year, but if we are getting those "assets" makes no sense, and it also strengthens a team we'll compete for a playoff spot with next year.)
 
Ed O said:
We don't know that. Cronin might be bad at his job.

In any case, we got worse, and if we're just looking to reload for next year, why make that deal? Let RoCo walk and use Powell off the bench. It makes no sense.

(And, for the record, we should NOT look to compete next year, but if we are getting those "assets" makes no sense, and it also strengthens a team we'll compete for a playoff spot with next year.)
Click to expand...
Yeah, we really do. Nobody had any better trade suggestions that worked better for the Blazers and that the other team would also agree to.

Powell off the bench at that salary hurts more than it helps. Hart is a better defender, and a better shooter.

We wouldn't have been able to tank with Norm off the bench. We needed somebody to take him off of our hands, knowing we were trying to get Hart back in the CJ deal. We needed to get under the cap to get out of repeater status if we weren't going to compete.

His contract was just too big for too long. And Hart is a better fit.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yeah, we really do. Nobody had any better trade suggestions that worked better for the Blazers and that the other team would also agree to.

Powell off the bench at that salary hurts more than it helps. Hart is a better defender, and a better shooter.

We wouldn't have been able to tank with Norm off the bench. We needed somebody to take him off of our hands, knowing we were trying to get Hart back in the CJ deal. We needed to get under the cap to get out of repeater status if we weren't going to compete.

His contract was just too big for too long. And Hart is a better fit.
Click to expand...
They would have just as easily shut Norm down like everyone else.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yeah, we really do. Nobody had any better trade suggestions that worked better for the Blazers and that the other team would also agree to.

Powell off the bench at that salary hurts more than it helps. Hart is a better defender, and a better shooter.

We wouldn't have been able to tank with Norm off the bench. We needed somebody to take him off of our hands, knowing we were trying to get Hart back in the CJ deal. We needed to get under the cap to get out of repeater status if we weren't going to compete.

His contract was just too big for too long. And Hart is a better fit.
Click to expand...
We (those who are pretty damn sure Joe did a poor job) have no certainty that he could have gotten better, even though he definitely gave up a lot more production in both trades than came back. You (those who for whatever reason are all about Cronin) don't have any certainty that there weren't better moves out there that weren't explored or pursued hard enough or that Joe gave enough alternative options that would have benefited us to exhaust all avenues to get equal or closer to equal value back. None of us know shit... so let's all stop pretending we do.

We definitely know that for whatever reason, whether it's ineptitude or no team in the league being willing to give up value for guys that have been very productive in the league, we ended up with far less than we gave up. Some of you like that because we ended up owing players a far less than we sent out and some of us hate it because we got back a lot less value in personnel than we sent out and didn't get close to enough draft value back to make up for the imbalance.
 
blazerkor said:
We (those who are pretty damn sure Joe did a poor job) have no certainty that he could have gotten better, even though he definitely gave up a lot more production in both trades than came back. You (those who for whatever reason are all about Cronin) don't have any certainty that there weren't better moves out there that weren't explored or pursued hard enough or that Joe gave enough alternative options that would have benefited us to exhaust all avenues to get equal or closer to equal value back. None of us know shit... so let's all stop pretending we do.

We definitely know that for whatever reason, whether it's ineptitude or no team in the league being willing to give up value for guys that have been very productive in the league, we ended up with far less than we gave up. Some of you like that because we ended up owing players a far less than we sent out and some of us hate it because we got back a lot less value in personnel than we sent out and didn't get close to enough draft value back to make up for the imbalance.
Click to expand...
You had unrealistic expectations. Everybody knew CJ was going to be traded. How many teams were clammoring for him?

Dame wasn't going to get moved and it seems dozens of teams were clammoring for him.

Who was clammoring for Norm? RoCo? Nobody.
 
Phatguysrule said:
You had unrealistic expectations. Everybody knew CJ was going to be traded. How many teams were clammoring for him?

Dame wasn't going to get moved and it seems dozens of teams were clammoring for him.

Who was clammoring for Norm? RoCo? Nobody.
Click to expand...
RoCo had a bunch of rumors about him heading into the trade deadline. Cavs, Jazz, Mavs, Pels. Norm had rumors about him and the Pels, also journalists were just saying generally that he had some interest around the league and maybe that was just the Clippers. That's not nobody. I'm sure Larry's injury killed a lot of potential return on moving him. I really have no idea what the market was for CJ or any of these guys even the rumors from solid NBA reporters are suspect. I will say that he fits pretty well in NOLA and they probably should have given up more for him and Larry but you know what, it's in the past.

I just decided that people that say Joe could have been under all sorts of bullshit orders that had more to do with financial shit than basketball/roster/talent could definitely be right. So maybe if he is the guy that ownership puts in charge of this off season he will surprise us with good moves now that the financial concerns have been appeased. If the moves were bad like I think it doesn't matter because they've been made and I can just hope we improve the team a lot this off season.
 
blazerkor said:
RoCo had a bunch of rumors about him heading into the trade deadline. Cavs, Jazz, Mavs, Pels. Norm had rumors about him and the Pels, also journalists were just saying generally that he had some interest around the league and maybe that was just the Clippers. That's not nobody. I'm sure Larry's injury killed a lot of potential return on moving him. I really have no idea what the market was for CJ or any of these guys even the rumors from solid NBA reporters are suspect. I will say that he fits pretty well in NOLA and they probably should have given up more for him and Larry but you know what, it's in the past.

I just decided that people that say Joe could have been under all sorts of bullshit orders that had more to do with financial shit than basketball/roster/talent could definitely be right. So maybe if he is the guy that ownership puts in charge of this off season he will surprise us with good moves now that the financial concerns have been appeased. If the moves were bad like I think it doesn't matter because they've been made and I can just hope we improve the team a lot this off season.
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I'm not some big Cronin supporter. I just don't think we should have expected much more in return for those guys. Especially since everyone knew a bunch of salary (including CJ) was going to be moved.

I don't remember any popular fan tweets or forum posts from fans or reporters of other teams offering anything that would help us for any of those guys.

The demand just wasn't out there. And I looked for it. I was digging hard to find some insight.

The demand wasn't there, AND CJ and Norm had bad contracts. If Norm's contract were a year shorter it wouldn't be so bad... But he wouldn't have been here if we didn't offer the extra year.

Maybe Cronin sucks. I just don't think we can judge him on what we've seen.

I'd much prefer a proven successful GM over somebody who still has to prove themselves.

But that won't happen until after the team sells.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I'm not some big Cronin supporter. I just don't think we should have expected much more in return for those guys. Especially since everyone knew a bunch of salary (including CJ) was going to be moved.

I don't remember any popular fan tweets or forum posts from fans or reporters of other teams offering anything that would help us for any of those guys.

The demand just wasn't out there. And I looked for it. I was digging hard to find some insight.

The demand wasn't there, AND CJ and Norm had bad contracts. If Norm's contract were a year shorter it wouldn't be so bad... But he wouldn't have been here if we didn't offer the extra year.

Maybe Cronin sucks. I just don't think we can judge him on what we've seen.

I'd much prefer a proven successful GM over somebody who still has to prove themselves.

But that won't happen until after the team sells.
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If the team is sold any time soon they'd be fools to sell it before the TV deal drives up the price in the summer of 2025. That's a long time to be in a holding pattern.
 
blazerkor said:
If the team is sold any time soon they'd be fools to sell it before the TV deal drives up the price in the summer of 2025. That's a long time to be in a holding pattern.
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I think they have to sell within the next 18mos to 2 years per Paul Allen's will.
 
blazerkor said:
If that's the case I hope there's an announced sale tomorrow.
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Yeah, but don't hold your breath. They are going to try and up the value of the team as much as possible before it goes up for auction. Meaning put as competitive of a team around Dame as possible without breaking the bank.
 
blazerkor said:
If the team is sold any time soon they'd be fools to sell it before the TV deal drives up the price in the summer of 2025. That's a long time to be in a holding pattern.
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Guess the Blazers can tank for better draft picks until then.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yeah, but don't hold your breath. They are going to try and up the value of the team as much as possible before it goes up for auction. Meaning put as competitive of a team around Dame as possible without breaking the bank.
Click to expand...
So become a 6-8 seed playoff team that wins 48-52 games next year?
 
Fairly-Hard said:
Blazers at full strength could have easily won 48 games this year.
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Yep, but Billups wants better defense an Dame wants to win a title. Neither was happening with that group.

With the reset there is a chance we could get lucky.

Dame wasn't coming back without changes and the team will be worth more with Dame on it than without him.
 
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