Memphis vs Blazers game thread

[KingSpeed]

Having trouble starting a thread. Not sure why. But I can post here:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/02/18/trades.20090218/index.html

Kwame to Portland?

No thank you.

 

[PapaG]

Kevin Durant has shown vast improvement. Travis is still making the same mistakes he did four years ago. I preferably enjoyed the one tonight where he almost got a charge on a two on one fast break but for some reason the refs didn't acknowledge him bowling into Darius. That is unfortunately a very recurring problem for Travis and I don't understand why people want to ignore this on a six year vet who repeatedly allows his man to get extra possessions for the opponent.

Travis is a good kid but if you can trade him for an upgrade you do it and I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Travis will never get heavy rotation minutes on a contender. He doesn't have the recognition skills to do it. His best skill is shooting a contested jumper and everything else is pretty far down by comparison. That's good for a fifteen minute player but not a 25-30 guy.

I've been advocating that Outlaw be traded all day for a SF upgrade. My posts in this thread are in response to the same few posters who bash the guy no matter what he does.

 

[HailBlazers]

When Travis is on the court there is a 1.2 production. When he is off the court the team is 6.4 for a net of -5.2.

Could it be he is part of the SECOND unit?!? You know the opposite of the starting unit.

 

[rocketeer]

Kevin Durant is -7.2 in on court/off court. Perhaps OKC should get rid of him.

http://www.82games.com/0809/ONSORT6.HTM

obviously how good your team is would matter when discussing a stat like that.

 

[Minstrel]

Having trouble starting a thread. Not sure why. But I can post here:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/02/18/trades.20090218/index.html

Kwame to Portland?

No thank you.

Giving up Rudy is the painful part. But to get Prince, it would be tempting.

In fact, I'd do it.

 

[PapaG]

obviously how good your team is would matter when discussing a stat like that.

Russell Westbrook is 12th in the NBA on that same list. So obviously, not so much.

 

[rocketeer]

Russell Westbrook is 12th in the NBA on that same list. So obviously, not so much.

no, it definitely is something that would still be important.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

I already posted Outlaw's +/- for this game, but whatever.

I am sick of having to defend the guy against the irrational and nonstop attacks I see here. I hope he gets traded so you all have someone else to nitpick.

What is irrational about it? Travis takes contested jumpers and forces them up even when he is having a really bad night. Travis regularly misses wide open guys. Travis regularly allows his man wide open shots to sag on a player with no post skills who are being defended fine. Travis regularly allows his man to secure extra possessions for the opponent because he doesn't box him out at all. Travis has an issue at finishing any type of fast break that has someone that will be in front of him because he's likely going to be charged for an offensive foul. These are the same issues that were happening four years ago.

When he's hitting his shots that's good but a lot of time they're contested shots. When he's missing his shots he doesn't really add a lot to the rest of the game and we'll often see him continue to take bad shots and miss wide open guys. He's also at his best when he's playing the four and what we need is a three and a banger backup four, not a tweener.

Travis is fine in his role of a gunner off the bench in that he plays fifteen minutes a game. He will never get big minutes on a true contender because the mistakes he makes can be devastating. Right now Travis's value is probably the second highest it will ever be (last year was highest) and if you can get good value that can help us in our quest for a championship you have to do it. It is nothing personal against Travis the person but I think we can all agree that we want our team to improve and ultimately win a championship (if not three or four). Do you honestly think that Travis playing big minutes without drastically reducing his weaknesses (after six years) is going to help us get to that goal?

 

[PapaG]

no, it definitely is something that would still be important.

So is Westbrook the best player in the NBA since he's the highest rated player from a losing team?

 

[number 10]

Having trouble starting a thread. Not sure why. But I can post here:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/02/18/trades.20090218/index.html

Kwame to Portland?

No thank you.

that analysis is painful. Rudy is clearly a SG, and I'd bet that Batum is less rather than more expendable. I'd still do that trade in a heartbeat.

 

[Jayps15]

Really? Name some better clutch shooters than Outlaw when the game is on the line. Keep in mind that the stats were posted last week, so I'll know if you are BSing or not.

Here's a list of clutch shooting, sorted by FG%. Outlaw's shoots .359 from the field in the clutch, notice how there's more than 100 players with better FG%'s in the clutch.

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT6.HTM

 

[PapaG]

What is irrational about it? Travis takes contested jumpers and forces them up even when he is having a really bad night. Travis regularly misses wide open guys. Travis regularly allows his man wide open shots to sag on a player with no post skills who are being defended fine. Travis regularly allows his man to secure extra possessions for the opponent because he doesn't box him out at all. Travis has an issue at finishing any type of fast break that has someone that will be in front of him because he's likely going to be charged for an offensive foul. These are the same issues that were happening four years ago.

When he's hitting his shots that's good but a lot of time they're contested shots. When he's missing his shots he doesn't really add a lot to the rest of the game and we'll often see him continue to take bad shots and miss wide open guys. He's also at his best when he's playing the four and what we need is a three and a banger backup four, not a tweener.

Travis is fine in his role of a gunner off the bench in that he plays fifteen minutes a game. He will never get big minutes on a true contender because the mistakes he makes can be devastating. Right now Travis's value is probably the second highest it will ever be (last year was highest) and if you can get good value that can help us in our quest for a championship you have to do it. It is nothing personal against Travis the person but I think we can all agree that we want our team to improve and ultimately win a championship (if not three or four). Do you honestly think that Travis playing big minutes without drastically reducing his weaknesses (after six years) is going to help us get to that goal?

Did you intentionally ignore my post about advocating Outlaw being traded, or did you just miss it when writing this post that I honestly did not read?

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Could it be he is part of the SECOND unit?!? You know the opposite of the starting unit.

Considering Travis plays some good minutes with the starters and the fact that he is the worst of the second uniters (Rudy is a 1.7 positive gain) I'd have to say possible but not likely.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Did you intentionally ignore my post about advocating Outlaw being traded, or did you just miss it when writing this post that I honestly did not read?

I'm not surprised you didn't read it as you never did strike me as someone who wanted to debate things but instead get people into fights and then report them to your cop buddies. Oh well.

 

[TripTango]

Did you intentionally ignore my post about advocating Outlaw being traded, or did you just miss it when writing this post that I honestly did not read?

Do you get the impression that we are just talking to ourselves? Something is not getting through.

 

[PapaG]

I'm not surprised you didn't read it as you never did strike me as someone who wanted to debate things but instead get people into fights and then report them to your cop buddies. Oh well.

What's to debate? You haven't read a word I've said about Outlaw today and jumped into a debate with zero context on what was being discussed. The "cop buddy" line is petty, however. Are you petty?

 

[PapaG]

Do you get the impression that we are just talking to ourselves? Something is not getting through.

It's all black/white with most people here. I did notice a personal jab at me by Sebastian Express, whoever that is.

 

[TripTango]

Anyway, I do hope we get our magical Hypothetical Forward so we can stop LOSING so much this year. Sheesh.

 

[PapaG]

I'm not surprised you didn't read it as you never did strike me as someone who wanted to debate things but instead get people into fights and then report them to your cop buddies. Oh well.

OK, I read it. Much of it is foolish, especially the part about Outlaw taking contested jumpers. Um, that's what he does, and that is what Nate draws up plays for him to do. That's why he is on the team and getting shots at the end of games.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

What's to debate? You haven't read a word I've said about Outlaw today and jumped into a debate with zero context on what was being discussed. The "cop buddy" line is petty, however. Are you petty?

I was responding to your statement about irrational when you made the Travis trade comment. As for being petty I imagine many people on this board are - you and I included at times.

 

[crowTrobot]

obviously how good your team is would matter when discussing a stat like that.

not really. the individual players you play the most minutes with might have some effect, but not the team as a whole.

 

[PapaG]

I was responding to your statement about irrational when you made the Travis trade comment. As for being petty I imagine many people on this board are - you and I included at times.

Which Travis trade comment did I make other than I advocate him going in a deal for a SF? I do think the criticism of Outlaw here is irrational and out of proportion.

 

[rocketeer]

So is Westbrook the best player in the NBA since he's the highest rated player from a losing team?

no, but it's obviously easier to be positive on a good team and easier to be negative on a bad one.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

OK, I read it. Much of it is foolish, especially the part about Outlaw taking contested jumpers. Um, that's what he does, and that is what Nate draws up plays for him to do. That's why he is on the team and getting shots at the end of games.

And that is why he will not be on the team (or playing about fifteen minutes a game) when we are contending for championships. You cannot win in the playoffs settling for contested jumpers when you're having an awful night and ignoring your wide open teammates.

 

[PapaG]

And that is why he will not be on the team (or playing about fifteen minutes a game) when we are contending for championships. You cannot win in the playoffs settling for contested jumpers when you're having an awful night and ignoring your wide open teammates.

How many wide open shots do you see in the NBA against good teams? This is what is funny to me. "Outlaw is terrible because he takes contested shots." That is a skill in the NBA that is hard to find. Not irreplaceable, which is why I am willing to see him go in order to get an upgrade at SF, but to use that as a criticism when Nate specifically draws up one-on-one plays for him is simply not fair.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Which Travis trade comment did I make other than I advocate him going in a deal for a SF? I do think the criticism of Outlaw here is irrational and out of proportion.

This is the trade comment I was referring to:

I've been advocating that Outlaw be traded all day for a SF upgrade. My posts in this thread are in response to the same few posters who bash the guy no matter what he does.

You had made this post asking if I had ignored it:

Did you intentionally ignore my post about advocating Outlaw being traded, or did you just miss it when writing this post that I honestly did not read?

I was busy writing the post in response to this post:

I am sick of having to defend the guy against the irrational and nonstop attacks I see here. I hope he gets traded so you all have someone else to nitpick.

And I missed your trade comment.

I don't think the criticisms of Travis are irrational. I think calling him stupid and a dumbass are over the top but he does have a good lack of recognition skills for the right play. I think you see a lot of annoyance over Travis especially because some posters (not you specifically) go beyond the call in defending him and totally ignore his faults and how it hurts the team - especially considering he is a six year veteran. Couple that with how some of those posts of Travis super fans end I think you see a great deal of irritation.

I've got nothing against Travis and wouldn't mind him here in a limited role. I just don't think he'll ever improve his faults enough to be a big asset in winning a championship and would prefer we get good value for him while his own value is so high.

 

[PapaG]

This is the trade comment I was referring to:



You had made this post asking if I had ignored it:



I was busy writing the post in response to this post:



And I missed your trade comment.

I don't think the criticisms of Travis are irrational. I think calling him stupid and a dumbass are over the top but he does have a good lack of recognition skills for the right play. I think you see a lot of annoyance over Travis especially because some posters (not you specifically) go beyond the call in defending him and totally ignore his faults and how it hurts the team - especially considering he is a six year veteran. Couple that with how some of those posts of Travis super fans end I think you see a great deal of irritation.

I've got nothing against Travis and wouldn't mind him here in a limited role. I just don't think he'll ever improve his faults enough to be a big asset in winning a championship and would prefer we get good value for him while his own value is so high.

Well, that's fair. I'm not sure why you had to insult me as someone who didn't want to engage in debate. "Debate" means you should understand my position as well, which you clearly didn't, and I didn't get petty, but whatever. Best of luck to you.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

How many wide open shots do you see in the NBA against good teams? This is what is funny to me. "Outlaw is terrible because he takes contested shots." That is a skill in the NBA that is hard to find. Not irreplaceable, which is why I am willing to see him go in order to get an upgrade at SF, but to use that as a criticism when Nate specifically draws up one-on-one plays for him is simply not fair.

Well that is my issue with Nate relying too much on ISO plays but that is another topic entirely.

My issue is this with Travis and contested jumpers: Some nights he hits them just fine and it makes you cringe but you live with it because it puts points on the boards. Other nights they're not going in but he's still going to them and the other team realizes he (and maybe Nate I guess) wont adjust. So you'll see Rudy, Blake's and even LaMarcus's man sagging off of them and shadowing Travis or just straight out doubling them.

I've seen multiple games this year where Travis is not having a good shooting night and Rudy's man leaves him wide open at the top of the arc and Rudy waves his hands and Travis ignores him. He's got a tunnel vision for the hoop a lot of the time (I think this more points towards his general lack of recognition skills during sticky situations) and that is my only concern with his shooting. My other concerns go more towards forgetting to box out, losing his man etc.

Again that's good in a limited role but will kick our asses in the playoffs (well most of the offensive schemes we run right now will kick our asses in the playoffs but that isn't Travis's fault).

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Well, that's fair. I'm not sure why you had to insult me as someone who didn't want to engage in debate. "Debate" means you should understand my position as well, which you clearly didn't, and I didn't get petty, but whatever. Best of luck to you.

I got a little annoyed at your didn't ask for your commentary comment. I apologize for lashing out in return.

 

[PapaG]

I got a little annoyed at your didn't ask for your commentary comment. I apologize for lashing out in return.

I only wanted a link so I could put the stat into context. What I found is that I wasn't as impressed with the number as I imagine the person who posted it hoped I would be.