Merged: blazers linked to serge ibaka

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Leonard would fit in Orlando though. Vogel has always had a system that favors having two bigs in in the lineup going back to his days in Indiana. Leonard theoretically would work with biyombo. I remember reading about Vogel trying out Vuc and Biyombo but the combo of Leonard and Biyombo seems better because Leonard actually prefers to hang on the perimeter offensively.
 
Scalma said:
I'd love to hear everyone's ideas on how were going to replace Crabbes borderline elite shooting.

We need more shooters, not less.
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Ibaka shoots a lower percentage from 3-point range, but on the season he's made 3 fewer 3-pointers than Crabbe. Ibaka shoots a higher 2FG% and has made over twice as many 2-pointers as Crabbe. We'd be replacing an 11 ppg bench player with a 15 ppg starter. Plus, Ibaka actually does other things like play defense and rebound.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Ibaka shoots a lower percentage from 3-point range, but on the season he's made 3 fewer 3-pointers than Crabbe. Ibaka shoots a higher 2FG% and has made over twice as many 2-pointers as Crabbe. We'd be replacing an 11 ppg bench player with a 15 ppg starter. Plus, Ibaka actually does other things like play defense and rebound.

BNM
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Ok now this time answer the question.
 
Scalma said:
I'd love to hear everyone's ideas on how were going to replace Crabbes borderline elite shooting.

We need more shooters, not less.
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I would submit it is occasionally elite. Take his last 10 games for example. 24,7,5,5,4,6,12,12,23,8,21. In 7 of those 10 games, he shot 33% or less from '3'. In the other three games, he shot .632 from '3'. When he gets his confidence and rhythm going, he is smoking hot. but in the other 2/3 of the games, he was 3-15....in 7 games. Three '3's in 7 games shooting 20% from the arc sounds like a much more inconsistent shooter with major hot streaks than elite to me...IMO.
 
Ok so a downgrade. The second unit would get worse. Zero shooting outside of CJ. Can't wait to see Turner and Aminu get more shots.

The more I think about the more stupid the idea of Crabbe for Ibaka sounds. If we're going to give up Crabbe I'd rather have Vucevic. He's younger, under contract longer, and his stats suggest he's the better overall player, including defensively.
 
Well we might have to give up Crabbe for someone sooner or later because it's just not feasible to have four players who mostly play in the backcourt making $90M or so combined. We'll need to replace his contribution in the backcourt but we are not going to build any half decent frontcourt without giving up on Crabbe - or one of CJ, Turner or Lillard for that matter but their stock is much higher. If we keep all 4 the outcome will likely be losing Plumlee in the Summer and being left with Meyers as our only center, plus probably some crap cheap center from free agency, one that nobody else wants. We're not going to free up much cap space without letting go one of our highest earners - Harkless makes $10M, Meyers makes $10M, Davis, Ezeli and Aminu are all ca. $6M - even if you let all them go you're left with less than $40M which in this market gets you maybe 2 good players and leaves your rotation EXTREMELY short in numbers.
 
TBpup said:
I would submit it is occasionally elite. Take his last 10 games for example. 24,7,5,5,4,6,12,12,23,8,21. In 7 of those 10 games, he shot 33% or less from '3'. In the other three games, he shot .632 from '3'. When he gets his confidence and rhythm going, he is smoking hot. but in the other 2/3 of the games, he was 3-15....in 7 games. Three '3's in 7 games shooting 20% from the arc sounds like a much more inconsistent shooter with major hot streaks than elite to me...IMO.
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Sounds like most other "shooters" in the NBA. It's why you consider large sample sizes, like the whole season where he's shooting a blazing 44% from 3.
 
I'm in support of a trade that allows us to keep DL and CJ and allows us to add a starting player in frontcourt. Yes, it will hurt a bit and we'll miss Crabbe's shooting/shot making. But, our starters play will be more efficient and those are the guys you want to be playing 35+ minutes each game. Ibaka seems like a perfect fit for us.

Given the shots, maybe someone else steps up and can replace AC's production off the bench. Layman just needs more PT. Maybe Pat too!
 
TBpup said:
I would submit it is occasionally elite. Take his last 10 games for example. 24,7,5,5,4,6,12,12,23,8,21. In 7 of those 10 games, he shot 33% or less from '3'. In the other three games, he shot .632 from '3'. When he gets his confidence and rhythm going, he is smoking hot. but in the other 2/3 of the games, he was 3-15....in 7 games. Three '3's in 7 games shooting 20% from the arc sounds like a much more inconsistent shooter with major hot streaks than elite to me...IMO.
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Yes, I know how averages work.
 
Crabbe is still inconsistent, but his consistency seems to be trending upward. As should be expected. I also see him putting the ball on the floor a lot more and trusting his ability to get a good look off the dribble.
 
I do like Crabbe. If he brings us an Ibaka in trade, it shows he has a LOT of trade value. Though Ibaka's trade value is lower than it would be if his contract weren't expiring.

I don't see a reason to nix this trade, other than we are likely to lose an asset in Crabbe when Ibaka walks in the summer.

I'd certainly want to interview Ibaka to get a sense of his willingness to re-sign with us. If he isn't fully onboard, we're better off passing on a deal involving one of our key rotation players.

An 11 PPG bench player who shoots well over 40% from 3 is actually a great thing to have.

The only upside of a Crabbe for Ibaka deal where Ibaka walks is we gain a decent amount of cap space. That would effectively give us room under the LT to sign Plums.

Would I trade Crabbe for Plums? It's tough, but probably not. NO has proven he can trade for guys like Plums (he got RoLo before him) for very little.
 
In the theoretical realm i'd trade Crabbe for Plums personally but I agree it is close. Unless we are getting Nurkic or Noel then I don't see a lot of other Centers that we can just go get this summer that come close to being starting-worthy. You have to either trade Plums at the deadline or be willing to give him the Mozgov-level contract. Don't lose him for nothing.
 
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KeepOnRollin said:
In the theoretical realm i'd trade Crabbe for Plums personally but I agree it is close. Unless we are getting Nurkic or Noel then I don't see a lot of other Centers that we can just go get this summer that come close to being starting-worthy. You have to either trade Plums at the deadline or be willing to give him the Mozgov-level contract. Don't lose him for nothing.
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Agreed - on all counts.

With regards to Crabbe/Ibaka/Plumlee - the trade makes sense if it's goal is to keep us under the LT while retaining Plumlee. However, from the perspective of getting value out of a Crabbe trade I think it stinks if Ibaka walks OR we re-sign him for MAX - basically, obtaining Ibaka is a lose/lose situation if he's viewed as anything other than an expiring contract. I think we'll be able to eventually trade Crabbe for a good player under contract, rather than just salary-dump him for an expiring Ibaka.
 
blue9 said:
Agreed - on all counts.

With regards to Crabbe/Ibaka/Plumlee - the trade makes sense if it's goal is to keep us under the LT while retaining Plumlee. However, from the perspective of getting value out of a Crabbe trade I think it stinks if Ibaka walks OR we re-sign him for MAX - basically, obtaining Ibaka is a lose/lose situation if he's viewed as anything other than an expiring contract. I think we'll be able to eventually trade Crabbe for a good player under contract, rather than just salary-dump him for an expiring Ibaka.
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IF we are willing to pay him (possibly big if) then I see no reason personally why Ibaka would leave. We can give him more years (and money) than anyone. Not sure we are willing (or should be) to pay him big money though so I agree to a point...
 
I believe Crabbe has a trade kicker in his contract (as poison pill as brooklyn could offer). Keep in mind this will affect the trade salary ballast required to move him.

Crabbe for Ibaka, straight up, doesn't work.

upload_2017-2-1_9-14-45.png
 
Denny Crane said:
I believe Crabbe has a trade kicker in his contract (as poison pill as brooklyn could offer). Keep in mind this will affect the trade salary ballast required to move him.

Crabbe for Ibaka, straight up, doesn't work.

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If they really are interested in Crabbe then they would also want Ezeli's expiring imo to offset losing their expirings.
 
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They're going to want at least one 1st round pick, too.

upload_2017-2-1_9-16-28.png
 
This trade works, but why does Orlando want to deal us a $15M expiring for a $7.4M one?

upload_2017-2-1_9-17-48.png
 
^^^ Also, that trade puts us in the LT for this season.
 
Ibaka for Leonard, Layman/Connaughton, and the Cleveland pick. If they can find better, they should go do that.
 
Scalma said:
Ibaka for Leonard, Layman/Connaughton, and the Cleveland pick. If they can find better, they should go do that.
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What do you have against white basketball players?? Besides Plumlee, that's everyone.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Ibaka + Green for Crabbe + Biebs works under the Trade Machine. I don't think Ezeli is that valuable to them as Green is expiring anyway.
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Exactly my point. Why do they want to trade a bigger expiring for a smaller one?
 
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