Merged: blazers linked to serge ibaka

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I think Ibaka's reputation is out of date. He used to be a very good defender, but I think that isn't true any more. He's done the "Clifford Robinson Progression" of moving from a useful defensive big to a volume 3-point shooter.
 
I'd say Ibaka has gone from a great defender to about an average defender. If he were still a great defender, he'd have been well worth what Orlando paid and they probably wouldn't be interested in dealing him.

He still brings rim protection and the ability to shoot three-pointers; being able to shoot is a big deal, because it can then unlock successful lineups with a non-shooter at small forward--like Evan Turner!
 
Harkless had one good month shooting. The last two months he's shot sub 30% from deep. I wouldn't call that average. Crabbe is the superior player, but people are obsessed about his contract so he'll never get properly evaluated here until he's on another team lighting our ass up.
 
Well, obsessed by his contract, terrible defense and inability to do anything on offense but shoot wide-open threes. If anyone's within 5 feet of him, he passes. There is literally no statistic that he ranks well in except 3P%.

I thought the era of casually dismissing the value of defense was over.
 
Zach Lowe said been we were after Ibaka last year as a potential FA target in 2017. Then we spent all our capspace.
 
Minstrel said:
Well, obsessed by his contract, terrible defense and inability to do anything on offense but shoot wide-open threes. If anyone's within 5 feet of him, he passes. There is literally no statistic that he ranks well in except 3P%.

I thought the era of casually dismissing the value of defense was over.
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That's unfair. He can come off picks and shoot. He's got a little Rip Hamilton to his game - he's not just a spot up shooter.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
That's unfair. He can come off picks and shoot. He's got a little Rip Hamilton to his game - he's not just a spot up shooter.
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Only a little, though. Hamilton was valuable because he could shoot those shots even when they were contested. Crabbe can shoot those if his man gets hung up on the screen or, bafflingly, goes under the screen. Players always chased Hamilton over the screen and he was still able to take those shots successfully.
 
Minstrel said:
Harkless is significantly more valuable than Crabbe. He's in the realm of average as a three-point shooter, a solid defender and attached to a good contract. Crabbe is an excellent shooter, terrible defender and attached to an awful contract. Even in an era where shooting is a big deal, defense still matters a huge amount, which is why Anthony Morrow has never been a sought-after player.
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Personally I have been a little disappointed in Harkless' D. He does come up with steals and blocks shots but he seems to have a tough time staying with quicker players. Not sure about his lateral quickness.

All Neil has to do is send opposing GM's Crabbe's game tape against Grizzlies and they will want him on potential alone. Not saying they should, just that I think Crabbe has a lot more trade value then you think.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Personally I have been a little disappointed in Harkless' D. He does come up with steals and blocks shots but he seems to have a tough time staying with quicker players. Not sure about his lateral quickness.
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To be clear, I don't think Harkless is a special player or anything. In fact, Scalma's point about Harkless' shooting month by month is pretty compelling evidence that Harkless didn't discover a three-point shot, he just had a really strong start to the season. But yeah, contract is a big deal when it comes to player value. It doesn't matter for a star in his prime, but for role-players and reserve quality players, contract is arguably the most important part of value.

I think Crabbe has a lot more trade value then you think.
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I hope you're right and I'm wrong.
 
Harkless' name shouldn't be appearing in this thread. The Magic GM would be humiliated around the league. Yet Harkless is dominating this thread.

But the bigger point is...This isn't the kind of trade that Olshey wants. He made us the 2nd-highest payroll for a losing team, planning to trade our high-paid garbage (which he doesn't think is garbage) for lower-paid stars, thus returning us to a reasonable payroll while increasing our wins.

As ridiculous as that plan seems, some on the board say that it was the only one available, and they may be right. I don't know. But I do know that if we re-sign Ibaka, it will increase the payroll after re-signing him, not decrease it.

I guess you could justify this trade by saying that the goal is to NOT re-sign Ibaka...It's just an emergency trade...The goal is to get rid of a couple of summer signing mistakes....The goal is to reverse last summer's financial errors, not to improve on the court.
 
Chris Craig said:
Trick them into taking Meyers.

When that doesn't work give them Noah, Allen, CLEV 1st

Also get Hesonja

Or just give them a 2nd rounder like when we got Harkless for nothing.
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They won't trade Noah unless they have completely given up on him, which is doubtful. Dude would be in his senior year of college, extremely hard working gym rat who has shown the ability and desire to improve. Vonleh should be in the long term plans for the direction of this team, or Olshey should be fired.
 
I'm thinking

ORL Gets: Crabbe, Vonleh, Layman, 2018 POR 1st
We Get: Serge Ibaka, Jeff Green

When you compare this trade to what they gave out, it stacks up.
Oladipo >> Crabbe (They get a lesser SG, but add shooting, which they need)
Vonleh = Sabonis (Young, Lottery pick PF)
Layman and Future 1st > Ilyasova

They get a little less value, but would recoup most of it.

We get Greens expiring contract, which is valuable. We could possibly flip Green to Dallas for Wesley Matthews who would be a Crabbe replacement. Dallas would shed the $17M contract of Matthews while they start their rebuild.

We'd still have Plumlee, Harkless, and our 2017 first as trade assets, Maybe we could work something like:

BKN Gets: Plumlee, Harkless, Leonard, POR 2017 1st
POR Gets: Lopez, Bogdanavic

We'd then have:

Lillard / McCollum
McCollum / Matthews
Turner / Bogdanavic
Ibaka / Aminu
Lopez / Davis

Note* May have to add another pick to the Orlando deal, which would make it harder to do the Lopez deal, but we could work something out.
 
BonesJones said:
I'm thinking

ORL Gets: Crabbe, Vonleh, Layman, 2018 POR 1st
We Get: Serge Ibaka, Jeff Green

When you compare this trade to what they gave out, it stacks up.
Oladipo >> Crabbe (They get a lesser SG, but add shooting, which they need)
Vonleh = Sabonis (Young, Lottery pick PF)
Layman and Future 1st > Ilyasova

They get a little less value, but would recoup most of it.

We get Greens expiring contract, which is valuable. We could possibly flip Green to Dallas for Wesley Matthews who would be a Crabbe replacement. Dallas would shed the $17M contract of Matthews while they start their rebuild.

We'd still have Plumlee, Harkless, and our 2017 first as trade assets, Maybe we could work something like:

BKN Gets: Plumlee, Harkless, Leonard Right to Swap BOS 2017 1st with POR 2017 1st, CLE 2017 1st
POR Gets: Lopez, Bogdanavic

We'd then have:

Lillard / McCollum
McCollum / Matthews
Turner / Bogdanavic
Ibaka / Aminu
Lopez / Davis
Click to expand...

Dallas says they would only trade Matthews for a star, and are not looking to trade him. #laughfactory
 
Chris Craig said:
Dallas says they would only trade Matthews for a star, and are not looking to trade him. #laughfactory
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That'd be stupid of them lol.

They need to rebuild, holding onto the $17M a year contract of a player nearing the end of his prime and who hasn't proved he deserves that kind of money is foolish.

I assume they'd be willing to rid themselves of his contract. They could try to pursue someone good like Jrue Holiday in the off-season with the money saved, or they could absorb similarly bad contracts such as Matthews' but get picks for them taking on that type of contract.

There's nothing to be gained by them holding onto Matthews.
 
We can't make this trade! We have to sit on our assets like a grumpy pelican for the Day That Never Comes!
 
This is tough, Ibaka is a either a 25-30 game rental, OR, a max re-sign.

Orlando wants young scoring wings & pick/s.
Orlando does not need Plumlee.

Here is a trade idea, but do not see it happening.
Out: Crabbe, Aminu, and either Pat, Tim or Jake, and then either Cleveland's 1st, or a couple of seconds
In: Ibaka, Augustin, Meeks

Not sure Orlando would want Chief, or Crabbe's contract? We could swap out Davis for Chief, both have attractive contracts.

Meeks is expiring filler. Augustin could be a decent BUPG. and then hope Ibaka re-signs.

I would not risk two firsts on Ibaka in case he does not re-sign.
 
Blazers Roy said:
Oh, i can just imagine that phone call...

Neil: Rob? how are you? i heard you might be interested in trading Iba..

Hennigan: Ahhh you motherfucker! not you again!

Neil: lol
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It shouldn't be that hard to outsmart the Magic front office.
 
BonesJones said:
I'm thinking

ORL Gets: Crabbe, Vonleh, Layman, 2018 POR 1st
We Get: Serge Ibaka, Jeff Green

When you compare this trade to what they gave out, it stacks up.
Oladipo >> Crabbe (They get a lesser SG, but add shooting, which they need)
Vonleh = Sabonis (Young, Lottery pick PF)
Layman and Future 1st > Ilyasova

They get a little less value, but would recoup most of it.

We get Greens expiring contract, which is valuable. We could possibly flip Green to Dallas for Wesley Matthews who would be a Crabbe replacement. Dallas would shed the $17M contract of Matthews while they start their rebuild.

We'd still have Plumlee, Harkless, and our 2017 first as trade assets, Maybe we could work something like:

BKN Gets: Plumlee, Harkless, Leonard, POR 2017 1st
POR Gets: Lopez, Bogdanavic

We'd then have:

Lillard / McCollum
McCollum / Matthews
Turner / Bogdanavic
Ibaka / Aminu
Lopez / Davis

Note* May have to add another pick to the Orlando deal, which would make it harder to do the Lopez deal, but we could work something out.
Click to expand...

I think we would be $17M-$20M over the LT this season after the first trade.

In fact, I believe a deal putting us over the $6M apron isn't allowed.
 
oldfisherman said:
This is tough, Ibaka is a either a 25-30 game rental, OR, a max re-sign.

Orlando wants young scoring wings & pick/s.
Orlando does not need Plumlee.

Here is a trade idea, but do not see it happening.
Out: Crabbe, Aminu, and either Pat, Tim or Jake, and then either Cleveland's 1st, or a couple of seconds
In: Ibaka, Augustin, Meeks

Not sure Orlando would want Chief, or Crabbe's contract? We could swap out Davis for Chief, both have attractive contracts.

Meeks is expiring filler. Augustin could be a decent BUPG. and then hope Ibaka re-signs.

I would not risk two firsts on Ibaka in case he does not re-sign.
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I mean if we're giving up clevelands first and say another protected first in 2018, I think I would risk that for Ibaka. He's just so perfect for our current team.
 
Here's what sucks, 1) because of the past failures to make a significant move it's hard to get excited for this or anything else we think could happen 2) considering this is out there for the public to hear it's not likely to happen and 3) it just makes too much sense so it isn't going to happen. I hate that I feel this way but the last few times have numbed be a little
 
Another positive about ibaka; he's used to being the third option and would know how to play off of Lillard and McCollum
 
Does a half-season rental convince Ibaka to resign here and is he worth the cost if he did? I'm not sure either is in the affirmative.
 
Well for those that are hopeful the Magic and Wolves just started if you have league pass if you want to see him in action
 
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