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Re: KP choking again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boob-No-More said:
I personally think he would have been available at 31 - which would have meant no cap hold.
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Why do you think that? Just because of mock drafts? I doubt Pritchard preferred a $500K caphold. He clearly believed that Claver wouldn't last to #31. I'd trust his information over freely available guesses on internet sites.
 
Re: KP choking again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Minstrel said:
Why do you think that? Just because of mock drafts? I doubt Pritchard preferred a $500K caphold. He clearly believed that Claver wouldn't last to #31. I'd trust his information over freely available guesses on internet sites.
Click to expand...

It was just my personal opinion based on mock drafts, scouting reports and who/what the other teams behind us were targeting. I may very well be wrong. We'll never know.

And, it's not a $500K cap hold, it's over a million - $1,012,900 to be exact. So, we reduced our available cap space to use on a free agent by over a million dollars on a guy who isn't going to be playing for us any time soon (if ever). I would have preferred we trade out of the first round (to free up another million dollars in cap space) and taken a chance that Claver would have been there at 31. If not, no big deal. It's looking more and more like Koponen and Freeland will never play for us, and Claver may be yet another first round pick wasted on an international player who may never leave Europe.

BNM
 
Re: KP choking again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ODENISGOD said:
You show me where I said something about getting a young guy? you idiot!
Click to expand...

I have an idea...How about u stop popping ur head around these parts just to be a fucking asshole?
 
Re: KP choking again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boob-No-More said:
And, it's not a $500K cap hold, it's over a million - $1,012,900 to be exact.
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The figure I've seen tossed around is $500K. I know the slot value is about a million, but a poster on RealGM explained it as such:

the positive thing is that 457,588 of his cap-hold is offset by the fact he takes a roster charge off of Portland's credited team salary
Click to expand...

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=28&p=19949093#p19949411

Now, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what a "roster charge" is, but I've seen the $500K figure elsewhere too, so there seems to be some offset in terms of his official cap hold.
 
Re: KP choking again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Minstrel said:
The figure I've seen tossed around is $500K. I know the slot value is about a million, but a poster on RealGM explained it as such:

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=28&p=19949093#p19949411

Now, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what a "roster charge" is, but I've seen the $500K figure elsewhere too, so there seems to be some offset in terms of his official cap hold.
Click to expand...

The amount I quoted was from the NBA Player's association page at:

http://www.nbpa.org/cba_exhibits/exhibitB.php

It sounds like a roster charge is a place holder to get us up to the minimum required 13 players under contract. This is the first I've heard of it. I was basing the cap hold on the rookie salary scale and the NBA Salary Cap FAQ at:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q43

Specifically:

"Unsigned first round picks are included in team salary immediately upon their selection in the draft. They count as 100% of the scale salary for that pick, unless there is a verbal agreement for a higher salary."

BNM
 
Here's the info on "Roster Charge" from the same salary cap FAQ:

"A roster charge if the team has fewer than 12 players (players under contract, free agents included in team salary, players given offer sheets, and first round draft picks). The roster charge is equal to the rookie minimum salary for each player below 12. The roster charge only applies during the offseason."

For 2009-2010 the rookie minimum salary is $457,588. Assuming we renounce Frye, Koponen and Freeland we currently have 11 players under guaranteed contracts for 2009-2010. Claver, would make 12. If we sign a fee agent, that would make 13. So, I'm not sure if we'd still get to deduct the "roster charge" against our total available cap space. Where's Tom Penn when you need him?

In any case, Claver will eat into our available cap space (either $555,312 or $1,012,900 depending on how the roster charge works)- not free up an additional $950,00 as stated by Canzano.

BNM
 
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I think BNM is right. Claver's full first-round rookie scale contract would count against the cap in the offseason, which for some reason then disappears once the regular season begins. You can't suddenly just transform Claver's contract into a roster charge salary slot of $450,000 from what I've read.

Either way.. we traded up two picks to get this guy, but he also counts $1 mil against our cap over the next few years without having him see a lick of PT. That sucks. It's probably why we dumped Sergio too and were so willing to pay the Kings an extra $3 mil on top of it.
This guy better be worth it... I can see now how attractive stashing Euros who are second-round picks are. You have their rights but they don't count a thing against the cap like a first-rounder.
 
Boob-No-More said:
In any case, Claver will eat into our available cap space (either $555,312 or $1,012,900 depending on how the roster charge works)- not free up an additional $950,00 as stated by Canzano.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wasn't defending Canzano's position. He rarely seems to have correct cap information.

So, I think in all, Portland saved something like $1.5 million in dumping Rodriguez (cap space, not real cash), drop another $1.6 million if they renounce Freeland and Koponen and then add either $1 or $0.5 million due to Claver. A net gain for cap space.

Whether Claver is worth the $0.5-1.0 million, I have no idea. The ESPN international basketball analyst said that Claver had "lottery talent" but was 2-3 years away...so perhaps.
 
Re: KP choking again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ODENISGOD said:
You show me where I said something about getting a young guy? you idiot!
Click to expand...

teacher teacher! The Annoying student called me an idiot!

I didnt say you said anything about getting a young guy, I was just grouping you in with the uninformed fans on here.
 
Re: KP choking again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boob-No-More said:
http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/or...f/2009/06/canzano_lowkey_blazers_save_sp.html

"General manager Kevin Pritchard said the team's draft choice at No. 22 -- Victor Claver -- will end up being stashed overseas next season, which frees an additional $950,000 in cap room."

Did this come from Canzano? If it did, no surprise there as it's absolutely 100% inaccurate. Claver will immediately count against our cap space to the tune of $1,012,900 - whether or not we stash him in Europe, whether or not he ever plays a minute for the Blazers. He will continue to count against our cap every summer until we renounce his rights. So, drafting him didn't free $950,000 in cap space, it reduces our cap space by over a million dollars.
Click to expand...

The only summer it matters is this one - for the purpose of FA cap space - but, since trades are allowed during the season up to the trade dead-line - you have to realize that his cap space will not matter then - and if nothing happens with FA/Trades before the season - we will have more cap space to facilitate trades before the trade deadline.
 
Re: KP choking again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boob-No-More said:
http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/or...f/2009/06/canzano_lowkey_blazers_save_sp.html

"General manager Kevin Pritchard said the team's draft choice at No. 22 -- Victor Claver -- will end up being stashed overseas next season, which frees an additional $950,000 in cap room."

Did this come from Canzano? If it did, no surprise there as it's absolutely 100% inaccurate. Claver will immediately count against our cap space to the tune of $1,012,900 - whether or not we stash him in Europe, whether or not he ever plays a minute for the Blazers. He will continue to count against our cap every summer until we renounce his rights. So, drafting him didn't free $950,000 in cap space, it reduces our cap space by over a million dollars.

I personally think he would have been available at 31 - which would have meant no cap hold.

BNM
Click to expand...


BMM I do not post much, just read a lot and you are one of my favorite posters.

This being said, don't you think that Tom Penn and Kevin Pritchard and the rest of the War room know the costs associated with this Claver kid? Don't you think that they maybe thought that someone else might very well try to trump their hand and take this kid?

Surly they knew or suspected that another team was looking to nab him as well. They surly determined that Claver was worth the risk. From what I have seen of highlights, he may very well be a Rudy like player that is 4" or 5" taller than Rudy.

When you take a very young player you are projecting them to the player you hope or expect them to be. Paul Allen seems to be a risk-taker and is willing to gamble on these player and I am glad he does. But you know all this anyway so I won't belabor the point.
 
Re: KP choking again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gatorpops said:
This being said, don't you think that Tom Penn and Kevin Pritchard and the rest of the War room know the costs associated with this Claver kid? Don't you think that they maybe thought that someone else might very well try to trump their hand and take this kid?

Surly they knew or suspected that another team was looking to nab him as well. They surly determined that Claver was worth the risk. From what I have seen of highlights, he may very well be a Rudy like player that is 4" or 5" taller than Rudy.

When you take a very young player you are projecting them to the player you hope or expect them to be. Paul Allen seems to be a risk-taker and is willing to gamble on these player and I am glad he does. But you know all this anyway so I won't belabor the point.
Click to expand...

The problem I see is that Pritchard may have over estimated his powers of persuasion. Let's say we stash Claver in Europe and he develops into a taller version of Rudy (I think that's a stretch - Rudy was a better, more accomplished player at the same age). So, that assumes Pritchard and team were correct in evaluating Claver's talent. Now comes the hard part - convincing him to sacrifice tens of millions of dollars to come play in the NBA on a rookie scale contract. Pritchard was able to convince Rudy to do just that - mostly because Rudy had a burning desire to play in the NBA. I think they'll have a much tougher (perhaps impossible) time trying to convince Claver to make the same sacrifice. That's basically why we are about to renounce our rights to Joel Freeland - because he has become good enough to earn more money playing in Europe than we can pay him. I see the same thing happening with Claver a couple years down the road.

Yes, it's a risk, but one I see as very unlikely to pan out due to the NBA rookie salary scale on 1st round draft picks.

BNM
 
KP is the most overrated GM in sports history!!!

Lets break this down. He had one good draft in 2006 when he was ASSISTANT GM, not the real GM. in 2007 the blazers win the lottery, and everyone and there mothers would of taken ODEN. In 2008 he moves up to draft Bayless, which in my own opinion will never see significant minutes in a blazer uniform. He is not a Point guard and does not posses the floor vision a good point needs. Yes he could be a solid backup SOMEDAY.

Now in 2009 he had a HUGE chip that he refused to use at the trade deadline that could of put us over the top LAST YEAR!!!!! You really think the Lakers were that much better then us? I really don't. The excuse for this was that he wanted to wait until the summer because the economy was bad and would be only worse in the summer and we would be able to land a big time free agent. So he puts all his chips in one basket and LOSES the basket.

Ok if thats not bad enough now he is nickle and diming maybe the best player in franchise history (ROY) in his prime! ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME? THIS IS A DISGRACE! But I know some of you will stick up for this guy no matter what. And I really don't understand why.
 
Re: KP is the most overrated GM in sports history!!!

woot this is what i see "This message is hidden because ODENISGOD is on your ignore list. "

Too bad you cant ignore topic thread titles too!
 
Re: KP is the most overrated GM in sports history!!!

Hyperbole much?
 
Re: KP is the most overrated GM in sports history!!!

Yeah! Bring back John Nash!
 
Re: KP is the most overrated GM in sports history!!!

This message is hidden because ODENISGOD is on your ignore list.
 
Re: KP is the most overrated GM in sports history!!!

You're the most overrated poster in history. Which is sad given how low of an opinion most people have of you.
 
Re: KP is the most overrated GM in sports history!!!

blue32 said:
woot this is what i see "This message is hidden because ODENISGOD is on your ignore list. "

Too bad you cant ignore topic thread titles too!
Click to expand...

Oh, you're missing out. For all of you who have OdenIsGod on your ignore list, yet opened this thread anyway, here are the contents of his post. You must, on some level, have wanted to read it.

Lets break this down. He had one good draft in 2006 when he was ASSISTANT GM, not the real GM. in 2007 the blazers win the lottery, and everyone and there mothers would of taken ODEN. In 2008 he moves up to draft Bayless, which in my own opinion will never see significant minutes in a blazer uniform. He is not a Point guard and does not posses the floor vision a good point needs. Yes he could be a solid backup SOMEDAY.

Now in 2009 he had a HUGE chip that he refused to use at the trade deadline that could of put us over the top LAST YEAR!!!!! You really think the Lakers were that much better then us? I really don't. The excuse for this was that he wanted to wait until the summer because the economy was bad and would be only worse in the summer and we would be able to land a big time free agent. So he puts all his chips in one basket and LOSES the basket.

Ok if thats not bad enough now he is nickle and diming maybe the best player in franchise history (ROY) in his prime! ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME? THIS IS A DISGRACE! But I know some of you will stick up for this guy no matter what. And I really don't understand why.
 
Re: KP is the most overrated GM in sports history!!!

blue32 said:
woot this is what i see "This message is hidden because ODENISGOD is on your ignore list. "

Too bad you cant ignore topic thread titles too!
Click to expand...

Your talking shit about "script kiddies" and t3h gh3y, but you say woot?

Hypocrite much?
 
Re: KP is the most overrated GM in sports history!!!

Sinobas said:
Oh, you're missing out. For all of you who have OdenIsGod on your ignore list, yet opened this thread anyway, here are the contents of his post. You must, on some level, have wanted to read it.

Lets break this down. He had one good draft in 2006 when he was ASSISTANT GM, not the real GM. in 2007 the blazers win the lottery, and everyone and there mothers would of taken ODEN. In 2008 he moves up to draft Bayless, which in my own opinion will never see significant minutes in a blazer uniform. He is not a Point guard and does not posses the floor vision a good point needs. Yes he could be a solid backup SOMEDAY.

Now in 2009 he had a HUGE chip that he refused to use at the trade deadline that could of put us over the top LAST YEAR!!!!! You really think the Lakers were that much better then us? I really don't. The excuse for this was that he wanted to wait until the summer because the economy was bad and would be only worse in the summer and we would be able to land a big time free agent. So he puts all his chips in one basket and LOSES the basket.

Ok if thats not bad enough now he is nickle and diming maybe the best player in franchise history (ROY) in his prime! ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME? THIS IS A DISGRACE! But I know some of you will stick up for this guy no matter what. And I really don't understand why.
Click to expand...

Actually, I was wondering why I saw her post title if I have her ignored.
 
These things don't take time KP sign ROY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cut it with the BS
 
Re: These things don't take time KP sign ROY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This message is hidden because ODENISGOD is on your ignore list.
 
Re: These things don't take time KP sign ROY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RickyRubio said:
This message is hidden because ODENISGOD is on your ignore list.
Click to expand...

Whoah quit reading my screen!
 
Re: KP choking again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gatorpops said:
BMM I do not post much, just read a lot and you are one of my favorite posters.

This being said, don't you think that Tom Penn and Kevin Pritchard and the rest of the War room know the costs associated with this Claver kid? Don't you think that they maybe thought that someone else might very well try to trump their hand and take this kid?

Surly they knew or suspected that another team was looking to nab him as well. They surly determined that Claver was worth the risk. From what I have seen of highlights, he may very well be a Rudy like player that is 4" or 5" taller than Rudy.

When you take a very young player you are projecting them to the player you hope or expect them to be. Paul Allen seems to be a risk-taker and is willing to gamble on these player and I am glad he does. But you know all this anyway so I won't belabor the point.
Click to expand...

I might buy that, if not for the injury angle.

Claver worked out for the Blazers, and presumably other teams, in 08. He then withdrew from the 08 draft. He subsequently underwent surgery and missed most of the ACB season. According to DraftExpress, he had NO workouts for any NBA team after the surgery.

Now, information on the surgery and any potential long-term consequences are very hard to come by....but any way you slice it, how do you draft a guy without a physical/workout?
 
Re: These things don't take time KP sign ROY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Somebody prescribe this kid some Ritalin.
 
i am going to start doing the opposite. start posting in all lower case. that way everybody just chills out, and doesn't get all freaked out!
 
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