Miami Heat Dame Trade Ideas and Rumors

[Cugel]

Portland just had the ridiculous GSW/Toradol fiasco. The airwaves were flooded when GSW alleged Portland cheated them. That was all you heard about for 2-3 weeks. Then, 2-3 months GSW and GP2weeks admitted Portland did not inject Toradol into him. Did you hear about it? Very little. But for some reason GSW were allowed to inflict scandalous claims against Portland. They should have been forced to give up a FRP to Portland for that. Who got the good press, who got the negative press? You want to control the PR narrative so that your staff and players know that you are honest and fair to deal with. You are an organization they are proud to represent and want to stay. And yes, you do not want to piss off your fan base by signing a Rueben Patterson. It is all PR, and I want Scoot and Sharpe to know that they are with a first rate organization. That their parents know the same. Those two young men are tight with their families and they must know Toradol is not an issue in Portland and that they value their players. I'm not a PR guy, but I know it is valuable for a national and international brand such as Trailblazers Inc.

I just want to know: does it affect the roster, viewers, ticket sales, or team value? What difference does it make if fans from other teams dont like POR? I think none of those are affected by Joe holding out. I like the team more than ever.

 

[Whyachi]

Portland just had the ridiculous GSW/Toradol fiasco. The airwaves were flooded when GSW alleged Portland cheated them. That was all you heard about for 2-3 weeks. Then, 2-3 months GSW and GP2weeks admitted Portland did not inject Toradol into him. Did you hear about it? Very little. But for some reason GSW were allowed to inflict scandalous claims against Portland. They should have been forced to give up a FRP to Portland for that. Who got the good press, who got the negative press? You want to control the PR narrative so that your staff and players know that you are honest and fair to deal with. You are an organization they are proud to represent and want to stay. And yes, you do not want to piss off your fan base by signing a Rueben Patterson. It is all PR, and I want Scoot and Sharpe to know that they are with a first rate organization. That their parents know the same. Those two young men are tight with their families and they must know Toradol is not an issue in Portland and that they value their players. I'm not a PR guy, but I know it is valuable for a national and international brand such as Trailblazers Inc.

Toradol week was rough in Portland. I'm surprised Jason Quick didn't get fired for throwing rotten eggs at Cronin. I guess bad PR is good PR. As long as the Blazers logo is in the national spotlight for any reason, its a PR win.

 

[Idog1976]

I don’t think portlands pr matters one bit. Will tv ratings go down? Will Steven a smith complain too much? Will players not want to come here ( even less)? Doesn’t matter at all. Maybe some would think Joe cares about the team more than just bending to the will of a single player??

Yep. It is Portland, not Dame/Miami/Goodwin, who can actually afford to go scorched Earth. No reason to, but we could. It's Dame/Goodwin who need to win the PR battle. We are already one of the least desirable locations in the league based on taxes, weather, side income from local endorsements, and nightlife. How we treat Dame really doesn't matter other than just to be decent people. I feel like we've comported ourselves like shrewd negotiators. It's not like we've openly threatened to send Dame to Detroit. It's "Dame's camp" (code for Goodwin or is Dame using friends and family?) that has gone scorched Earth via the media.

 

[Idog1976]

Portland just had the ridiculous GSW/Toradol fiasco. The airwaves were flooded when GSW alleged Portland cheated them. That was all you heard about for 2-3 weeks. Then, 2-3 months GSW and GP2weeks admitted Portland did not inject Toradol into him. Did you hear about it? Very little. But for some reason GSW were allowed to inflict scandalous claims against Portland. They should have been forced to give up a FRP to Portland for that. Who got the good press, who got the negative press? You want to control the PR narrative so that your staff and players know that you are honest and fair to deal with. You are an organization they are proud to represent and want to stay. And yes, you do not want to piss off your fan base by signing a Rueben Patterson. It is all PR, and I want Scoot and Sharpe to know that they are with a first rate organization. That their parents know the same. Those two young men are tight with their families and they must know Toradol is not an issue in Portland and that they value their players. I'm not a PR guy, but I know it is valuable for a national and international brand such as Trailblazers Inc.

The GP2 thing is ridiculous and I'm sure we can just send the relevant articles to Sharpe and Scoot's family if pressed. I don't think PR matters almost at all and again, we haven't done anything wrong, that would be the Heat/Dame's "camp" and media.

 

[Samuel]

Yep. It is Portland, not Dame/Miami/Goodwin, who can actually afford to go scorched Earth. No reason to, but we could. It's Dame/Goodwin who need to win the PR battle. We are already one of the least desirable locations in the league based on taxes, weather, side income from local endorsements, and nightlife. How we treat Dame really doesn't matter other than just to be decent people. I feel like we've comported ourselves like shrewd negotiators. It's not like we've openly threatened to send Dame to Detroit. It's "Dame's camp" (code for Goodwin or is Dame using friends and family?) that has gone scorched Earth via the media.

It's easy to get caught up in tunnelvision. Blazers fans are probably overly focusing on the narrative coming out of the Dame camp and the Miami media. Most of the league's fans think it's ridiculous what Miami is trying to do—a complete and utter fleece in broad daylight.

The GM community stuck its nose up at the Herro and picks offer that the Heat were attempting to trade the last two trade windows. If you don't like Cronin, you might think he's a little dim, but he's not dim enough to know that that's a meh package, and that his peers in the GM community agree.

I believe Cronin when he says he'll wait as long as it takes. I'm starting to wrap my head around a lame duck roster to start the year; the alternative is much worse.

 

[Predator]

Just so we're clear... you're comparing:

Eason - 9.3 ppg, 44.8% from the field, 34% from three, 6 rebounds, 1.2 steals
Smith - 12.8 ppg, 40.8% from the field, 30.7% from three, 7 rebounds, 1.3 assists
Amen

to

Simons - 21 ppg, 44.7% from the field, 37.7% from three, 2.6 rebounds, 4.1 assists
Sharpe - 9.9 ppg, 47% from the field, 36% from three, 3 rebounds, 1.2 assists
Scoot

Just so we’re clear,

Simons is in his 5th year and Tari Eason has a higher win share (on a worse team).

Jabari Smith has a higher win share (on a worse team) than Shaedon Sharpe.

Playing defense is a pretty important part of basketball it turns out.

 

[Predator]

To be fair, you are comparing 5th year Simons to rookie stats for everyone else.
Simons - 3.8 ppg, 44.4% from the field, 34.5% from three, 0.7 rebounds, 0.7 assists

This is closer to a fair comparison. Smith, Sharpe, & Ant were all 19 during their rookie campaigns.

Exactly this. Still not even slightly factoring in that Jabari, Eason and Amen(most likely) are all elite defenders where as you won’t find a plus defender out of Simons, Sharpe and Scoot.

We can remove Amen and Scoot because they’ve done nothing at the NBA level yet; but acting like Simons and Sharpe are even in the same galaxy as Smith and Eason is laughable at best.

 

[Idog1976]

Just so we’re clear,

Simons is in his 5th year and Tari Eason has a higher win share (on a worse team).

Jabari Smith has a higher win share (on a worse team) than Shaedon Sharpe.

Playing defense is a pretty important part of basketball it turns out.

So, just so we're clear you, have Eason and Smith as better than Simons and Sharpe...and maybe Scoot? Lay your cards out.

 

[Predator]

So, just so we're clear you have Eason and Smith as better than Simons and Sharpe...and maybe Scoot? Lay your cards out.

I would 110% take Eason, Smith and Amen over Simons, Sharpe and Scoot.

I would take Eason over Simons all day every day and twice on Sunday.

Jabari and Sharpe is really close. Probably a wash. I think after SL (which I don’t factor in) most people would heavily lean Jabari though.

Amen and Scoot as of now is a wash although it’s no secret I would prefer Amen but I won’t factor that in for this.

 

[Idog1976]

I would 110% take Eason, Smith and Amen over Simons, Sharpe and Scoot.

I would take Eason over Simons all day every day and twice on Sunday.

Jabari and Sharpe is really close. Probably a wash. I think after SL (which I don’t factor in) most people would heavily lean Jabari though.

Amen and Scoot as of now is a wash although it’s no secret I would prefer Amen but I won’t factor that in for this.

You should bookmark this post. Eason is the only one I remotely agree with and it's really about what you value. I grant that a 3&D wing is more valuable than an elite scorer, but I don't think Eason is elite at anything currently, Ant is an elite 3pt shooter and very likely an elite all around scorer which we will see next year.

Smith over Sharpe is laughable to me.

Amen vs. Scoot I don't think is close, even though I have Amen rated quite highly there is a reason every GM in the league had Scoot over Amen.

So to sum up, Eason over Simons is a maybe but I will grant you that one, but Sharpe over Smith and Amen over Scoot? Wow!

 

[Predator]

You should bookmark this post. Eason is the only one I remotely agree with and it's really about what you value. I grant that a 3&D wing is more valuable than an elite scorer, but I don't think Eason is elite at anything currently, Ant is an elite 3pt shooter and very likely an elite all around scorer which we will see next year.

Smith over Sharpe is laughable to me.

Amen vs. Scoot I don't think is close, even though I have Amen rated quite highly there is a reason every GM in the league had Scoot over Amen.

So to sum up, Eason over Simons is a maybe but I will grant you that one, but Sharpe over Smith and Amen over Scoot? Wow!

Eason is elite at defense.

I am pretty sure a vast majority of the league would take Smith over Sharpe. 6’11. Great defender. Supposedly elite shooter. Most “all around” stats favor Jabari over Sharpe and it’s not particularly close. Sharpe certainly has a higher ceiling IMO. That’s why I called it a wash. Jabari is, IMO, quite better than Sharpe right now — as evidenced in SL.

And I said Amen vs. Scoot is a wash since I’m placing 0 value on rookies who haven’t done squat in the NBA. GM’s, do, quite frequently, get the draft wrong so I don’t particularly care where people are “rated”.

I guess we will see in a few years.

Certainly hope I’m wrong!

 

[inconceivable]

Cronin must realize Pat Riley is in the same position with Jimmy as he (Joe) was with Dame.

Jimmy asked Riley to get Lillard. If Dame isn't traded to Miami, will Jimmy ask out?

Joe probably tried to get a Mikal bridges type player for Ant and Nas type package and got shutdown.

So now Miami is trying to solve their problem and wants us to be their solution

 

[TBpup]

Understand your point but disagree with it.

The Blazers aren't obliged to be sellers. We have Lillard under contract for four years. We don't "want" to trade him. We want Dame.

It's on the Heat to present a package the Blazers can't refuse. Don't do their work for them. Don't set Dame's market value for them (and other teams that might want to get involved). The Heat need to blow the Blazers' socks off. In doing so, they set a bar that other teams might feel they can surpass and perhaps even alienate Dame to the point that his representation opens things to other teams.

By not saying what the Blazers want, the Blazers open the door to get more than they should in this market. They're playing this smart. We aren't in a hurry.

Well stated. Similar to some of the subject matter in the last Blazermetrics episode.

 

[Natebishop3]

Exactly this. Still not even slightly factoring in that Jabari, Eason and Amen(most likely) are all elite defenders where as you won’t find a plus defender out of Simons, Sharpe and Scoot.

We can remove Amen and Scoot because they’ve done nothing at the NBA level yet; but acting like Simons and Sharpe are even in the same galaxy as Smith and Eason is laughable at best.

I am going to thoroughly enjoy bumping this when Shae is a star. Eason is a role player and Smith has thus far been a bust.

 

[Natebishop3]

Jabari is, IMO, quite better than Sharpe right now — as evidenced in SL.

Summer league…… summer league……….. summer……. League.

Man it’s really too bad we don’t have actual NBA stats to look at from those two players. If only…..

 

[Natebishop3]

Just so we’re clear,

Simons is in his 5th year and Tari Eason has a higher win share (on a worse team).

Jabari Smith has a higher win share (on a worse team) than Shaedon Sharpe.

Playing defense is a pretty important part of basketball it turns out.

They were both shit teams... who cares about win shares? That's the one stat you're going to snipe?

Smith couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. In the 30-39 minute per game bracket, Sharpe outplayed Smith pretty handily.

Smith was just as bad defensively as Sharpe, but horrible offensively. I already posted those stats.



Overall, Sharpe was a MUCH more efficient scorer. Smith was a massive disappointment last season. He was supposed to be NBA ready.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Just so we're clear... you're comparing:

Eason - 9.3 ppg, 44.8% from the field, 34% from three, 6 rebounds, 1.2 steals
Smith - 12.8 ppg, 40.8% from the field, 30.7% from three, 7 rebounds, 1.3 assists
Amen

to

Simons - 21 ppg, 44.7% from the field, 37.7% from three, 2.6 rebounds, 4.1 assists
Sharpe - 9.9 ppg, 47% from the field, 36% from three, 3 rebounds, 1.2 assists
Scoot

Just so we're clear... you're comparing:

Eason 6'8"
Smith 6'11"
Amen 6'7"

to

Simons 6'3"
Sharpe 6'5"
Scoot 6'2"

 

[SharpesTriumph]

One of Amen or Jabari + Eason or Whitmore. They're probably most intrigued with Amen since he's their shiny new lotto pick.

Whitmore is not close to equal to Amen
or Jabari + Eason.

Whitmore is a chucker drafted at #20. Amen was #4 in a loaded draft and might end up as the best player.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I haven't read every post yet. Sorry if this has been addressed;

If Portland tells Miami what they want in a Dame trade, they are setting the market based on what the worst possible trade partner has available to trade. At some point Dame should add a few more teams. Then Portland can negotiate with say, Utah. Utah has far more assets to trade than Miami. But if if it is public knowledge Portland asked for three picks from Miami, Utah is not offering more than three picks. The market was set. If i'm Portland, I want four picks from Utah, maybe five. Don't set the ceiling when negotiating with the worst trade partner. Ask for their best, as Cronin smartly has. If Portland rejects it, no ceiling has been set.

I don't see the problem with the Blazers telling Miami to flip Herro to a 3rd team for a 2025 pick but have OKC accept the better of that pick or the 2025 Heat pick and Miami gets the worse.

Then Miami sends the Blazers Martin, Jovic, Jascquez, plus filler (not Duncan Robinson). 2024 2026 2028 2030 1st round picks all unprotected. Blazers get swaps in 2025 2027 2029. Blazers also get Miami 2nd round picks in 2026 2029 2030.

Doesn't really matter right now if OKC would agree to the deal or not, just tell Miami this is what the Blazers want Miami to give up in the trade. It doesn't have to involve OKC, another team can get Miami a pick matching the one they sent OKC which frees up all 4 Miami firsts. Or sending picks from the 3rd team straight to Portland and Miami gives Portland extra swaps. If Miami ever got to the place of giving up all of those assets then both the Blazers and Miami can work on finalizing the 3rd team aspect.

I don't see the harm in the Blazers saying this is what they want. Maybe there is no advantage so its fine to not say that at this time. I guess if the Blazers need to show Dame they are making a good faith negotiations offer they can go ahead and say this is what they want. Then if Miami comes nowhere close to the offer, Blazers tell Dame he either adds teams to his list or comes back and plays.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I don’t think portlands pr matters one bit. Will tv ratings go down? Will Steven a smith complain too much? Will players not want to come here ( even less)? Doesn’t matter at all. Maybe some would think Joe cares about the team more than just bending to the will of a single player??

I think the Blazers won't care too much about short term PR. If its some local Portland fans complaining like when the Blazers didn't initially hand Roy a max contract they won't care. But they will want this to long term look they they made the correct decision as well as treated Dame fairly. That doesn't mean they hand Dame away for a poor return. But its arguably the greatest player in franchise history so they do care about how this could be remember long term for Blazer fans.

Right now Blazer fans are very united in that the Blazers should hold out for a better return or Dame should add teams to the list so both long term and short term I think the Blazers are fine at this time and can stay the course.

 

[Natebishop3]

Just so we're clear... you're comparing:

Eason 6'8"
Smith 6'11"
Amen 6'7"

to

Simons 6'3"
Sharpe 6'5"
Scoot 6'2"

Jovic 6’10
Jaquez 6’7
Martin 6’5

to

Lillard 6’2

Shit let’s make the trade!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Whitmore is not close to equal to Amen
or Jabari + Eason.

Whitmore is a chucker drafted at #20. Amen was #4 in a loaded draft and might end up as the best player.

I don't think he was equating Whitmore to Amen or Jabari+Eason. I think it was more (Amen or Jabari) + (Eason or Whitmore); that is to say, Amen and Jabari are comparable value (probably true), and Eason and Whitmore are comparable to one another (I disagree; I think Eason has significantly more value), and Portland should expect one of the first pair and one of the second pair in a Dame-BOS-HOU 3-way deal.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I don't think he was equating Whitmore to Amen or Jabari+Eason. I think it was more (Amen or Jabari) + (Eason or Whitmore); that is to say, Amen and Jabari are comparable value (probably true), and Eason and Whitmore are comparable to one another (I disagree; I think Eason has significantly more value), and Portland should expect one of the first pair and one of the second pair in a Dame-BOS-HOU 3-way deal.

Thanks, yeah if so that makes much more sense.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Jovic 6’10
Jaquez 6’7
Martin 6’5

to

Lillard 6’2

Shit let’s make the trade!

We should absolutely make that trade, with picks

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Hmm something like this actually could make sense;

 

[Natebishop3]

We should absolutely make that trade, with picks

I just didn’t see it with Jovic. He’s a stretch four who doesn’t play defense.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Scoot - Sharpe
Simons - Jaquez
Thybulle - Murray - Rupert
Grant - Walker
KAT - Jovic - ButlerJr

I question if KAT makes sense here, he's 27 and the Blazers might be a very long ways from contending. But were still getting two unprotected picks/Jovic/Jaquez... can also get a 2029 swap. Its not a whole lot less than if we get junk contracts back from a 3rd team so maybe I'd be ok considering it.

Just seems like KAT would make more sense to a different team that wants to win now. But if he's as available as many have rumored it could make sense to get him and the Wolves in on a Dame trade.

There's a lot of rumors the Blazers really want to push to make the playoffs now, and not take only picks or projects back in a Dame trade. If so I could see them going for KAT.

 

[Natebishop3]

Scoot - Sharpe
Simons - Jaquez
Thybulle - Murray - Rupert
Grant - Walker
KAT - Jovic - ButlerJr

I question if KAT makes sense here, he's 27 and the Blazers might be a very long ways from contending. But were still getting two unprotected picks/Jovic/Jaquez... can also get a 2029 swap. Its not a whole lot less than if we get junk contracts back from a 3rd team so maybe I'd be ok considering it.

Just seems like KAT would make more sense to a different team that wants to win now. But if he's as available as many have rumored it could make sense to get him and the Wolves in on a Dame trade.

There's a lot of rumors the Blazers really want to push to make the playoffs now, and not take only picks or projects back in a Dame trade. If so I could see them going for KAT.

There's no much incentive to tank right now. The draft next summer is looking really weak.

 

[Natebishop3]

Hmm something like this actually could make sense;

View attachment 57050

I think Minny would want some picks. That's pretty bad value on KAT. They had supposedly reached out to us about the #3, so it would be a pretty massive step down if they accepted Herro and Martin. Of course, their GM is horrible so maybe they do it?

I want that 2024 pick from Miami though, as well. They need to give OKC the 2026 and give us 2024/2028/2030.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

There's no much incentive to tank right now. The draft next summer is looking really weak.

Yeah agreed; the 2024 draft doesn't looks great. But still I question if it makes more sense to get extra picks or younger players back instead of a veteran like KAT. Also not sure KAT would be happy here, he's never been on a winning team and guys around the age of 27 can start to get pretty upset with the constant losing. I'd want a veteran to be a good role model here even if he is losing which I think Thybulle will be very good at. KAT might make more sense on a team trying to win sooner.

I'm not against it though. Unless we get Scottie Barnes this is probably the best player mentioned in a Dame return.

Thinking about it more Minnesota probably would need more back than just Herro and Martin. Maybe the 2028 Miami pick would go to Minnesota instead of us.