Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

[MarAzul]

They set fires two different times. And one of their own relatives testified that it was arson.

barfo

Not the way I heard it on TV tonight. Sounds not right in any case. Setting a fire which is permitted is not arson regardless of what anyone says.

 

[barfo]

Not the way I heard it on TV tonight. Sounds not right in any case. Setting a fire which is permitted is not arson regardless of what anyone says.

Who says it was permitted?

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

Who says it was permitted?

barfo

I did. A "prescribed burn" would be such.

"One of the fires, set in 2001, was a prescribed burn on Hammond’s private property; a routine rangeimprovement practice. The other fire, set on Hammond’s private property in 2006, was a back-burn intended to protect the ranch’s winter pasture from a lightening fire on adjacent federal land. Combined, the two fires burned about 140 acres of federal land. Now, although two Hammond family members have already done time in federal prison for setting these fires, they are facing a resentencing—now scheduled for late October—that could land them back in prison."

"
Why did Hammonds start the fires? According to court documents, the 2001 “Hardie-Hammond” fire was set under a long-standing plan between Hammonds and their BLM range conservationist to burn off invasive species on that section. They had called the BLM at noon that day to see if burning was permitted. After being told there was no burn ban in effect, the Hammonds told the BLM that they would be setting a fire on that section."

"Years later, BLM pressed charges for the above-mentioned fires..."

This ain't right!!

http://www.tsln.com/news/17302049-113/story.html

 

[barfo]

I did. A "prescribed burn" would be such.

"One of the fires, set in 2001, was a prescribed burn on Hammond’s private property; a routine rangeimprovement practice. The other fire, set on Hammond’s private property in 2006, was a back-burn intended to protect the ranch’s winter pasture from a lightening fire on adjacent federal land. Combined, the two fires burned about 140 acres of federal land. Now, although two Hammond family members have already done time in federal prison for setting these fires, they are facing a resentencing—now scheduled for late October—that could land them back in prison."

"
Why did Hammonds start the fires? According to court documents, the 2001 “Hardie-Hammond” fire was set under a long-standing plan between Hammonds and their BLM range conservationist to burn off invasive species on that section. They had called the BLM at noon that day to see if burning was permitted. After being told there was no burn ban in effect, the Hammonds told the BLM that they would be setting a fire on that section."


This ain't right!!

Indeed, what you quoted there may in fact not be right.

I have no idea what the truth is myself, but the evil evil government tells a very different story.

And the fact still remains that a jury convicted them of arson.

barfo

 

[dviss1]

When I was a young whippersnapper, they called those things "sit ins."

Those sit-ins were unarmed, peaceful, and non-violent. They were violently interrupted.

 

[MarAzul]

Indeed, what you quoted there may in fact not be right.

Western Livestock Journal

Better source than the liberal rags.

 

[MarAzul]

Here we go.

Why the Hammonds?

“The story is like an onion, you just keep peeling back the layers,” Maupin said.

In an effort to stave off what they feared was a pending Clinton/Babbitt monument designation in 2000, a group of ranchers on the scenic Steens Mountain worked with Oregon Representative Greg Walden, a republican, to draft and enact the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Act that would prevent such a deed. The ranchers agreed to work with special interest “environmental” groups like the aggressive Oregon Natural Desert Association and others to protect the higher-than 10,000 foot breathtaking peak.

A number of ranchers at the top of the mountain traded their BLM permits and private property for land on the valley floor, allowing the anti-grazing groups to create a 170,000 acre wilderness, with almost 100,000 acres being “cow-free.”

“The last holdouts on that cow-free wilderness were the Hammonds,” explained Maupin. And because the Hammonds have large chunks of private property in the heart of the cooperative management area, they carried a target on their backs.

“It’s become more and more obvious over the years that that the BLM and the wildlife refuge want that ranch. It would tie in with what they have,” said Inglis.

The Hammonds also lost their ability to water cattle on one BLM permit when refuge personnel drained a watering hole that the Hammonds had always used.

Maupin said the government scientists and resource managers working “on the ground” supported the Hammonds’ use of the water but that the high level bureaucrats backed special interest anti-grazing groups. “There is a huge disconnect between employees on the ground and the decision-makers,” she said, building tension between ranchers and federal agencies.

In the Hammonds’ plea agreement in the 2012 trial, the BLM obtained the first right of refusal should the family have to sell their land and BLM leases, Maupin added.

The Maupins themselves had a small lease that also bordered the “cow-free wilderness” and the Oregon Natural Desert Association was “relentless in their pursuit to have us off, in order to expand the cow-free wilderness,” Maupin said. The group would criticize the ranchers’ water usage, causing them to pipe water to their cattle, which in turn instigated more complaints from the group.

Eventually the Maupins sold their permit and moved.

But the Hammonds remained.



Steve and Dwight Hammond will turn themselves in to for their prison sentences in early January, Susan said.

The family has sold cattle. Their BLM permit has not been renewed for two years, leaving them unable to use even a large amount of intermingled private land.

The family is in the “last challenge” to re-obtain their grazing permit. “I don’t know what happens after that,” Susan said. “We have done everything according to their rules and regulations and there is no reason that they should not give us back our permit.”

The five-year prison sentence sets a worrisome precedent for area ranchers, Maupin said.

“Now the sky is the limit. It doesn’t have to be fire, it can be trespass with cattle.”

Another precedent – one for fire that burns beyond expectations – should apply to everyone, including federal employees, though, Maupin points out.

Susan Hammond isn’t sure where to go from here.

“We’ve been fighting it for five years. We don’t want to destroy people as we are fighting it even if it is a BLM employee,” she said, “They live in our community and they have families. We respect that.” The situation could get even more ugly but that “it’s not going to be our fault,” she said.

Maupin talked about the Hammonds helping her and her husband with ranch work, like hauling cattle, lending portable panels and never expecting anything in return. Wilber recalled them hauling 4-H calves to the fair for neighbors and Inglis said Dwight once offered to lend him money because he thought he needed help. “Here’s a guy with $400,000 in fines and legal bills I can’t imagine, worrying about my welfare,” said Inglis.

“I think that’s the biggest point of all of this – how can you prosecute people as terrorists when they aren’t a terrorist?”

Property rights attorney Karen Budd-Falen from Cheyenne, Wyoming, agrees. “What totally amazes me is what these guys did – they burned 140 acres. If you compare that to the EPA spill in Colorado, it amazes me that nothing will happen to those EPA employees. You have cities down there with no drinking water. The Hammonds didn’t do anything like that,” Budd-Falen said.

“It’s going to get worse before it gets better,” said Maupin.


The BLM deferred all questions to the Department of Justice who shared their official news release but did not respond to e-mailed questions as of print time.

http://www.thefencepost.com/news/18847695-113/two-members-of-oregons-hammond-family-to-serve

 

[Denny Crane]

Those sit-ins were unarmed, peaceful, and non-violent. They were violently interrupted.

There's no violence in this situation.

There shouldn't be.

Just like in '68, it would be the government behind any violence.

 

[blue32]

Completely different cases and not to derail, but this picture is ridiculous, but push the agenda boys.

1. The black kid (and I'm only using race here because it's on the photo) was brandishing the gun in a threatening manner towards people, in a public place, in an urban environment (read: lots of people and dwellings nearby)

2. Toy gun sure, w/o the orange tip. But nobody seems to care that replicas with their orange tip removed are unable to be distinguished from real guns unless felt.

3. I haven't seen anyone call these "militia" men a patriot.

4. Open carry is legal in Oregon.

5. They are not threatening the general public or brandishing their weapons in a threatening way to the general public.

 

[MarAzul]

"militia"

Who tagged them "Militia" Some liberal rag or TV reporter is my guess.

 

[THE HCP]

YOU EVER GONE TO JAIL FOR BEING IN A MILITIA!!?? I done been arrested for letting my cows graze all over the fuckin hood FAMS! Y'all up here talking about you plush life growing up on in the country with fancy ass farms FAMS! Fucckoouttta here with that shit son! None of you been arrested for militia shit like me FAMS!


Sent from my Baller-Ass 5.5" iPhone 6+......... FAMS

 

[MarAzul]

I done been arrested

Sounds entertaining, when is the repeat?

 

[barfo]

An interesting prequel to this story...

barfo

 

[ripcityboy]

Ripcityboy after hearing that the Mormon Church had condemned the Militia Takeover....

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[MarAzul]

YOU EVER GONE TO JAIL FOR BEING IN A MILITIA!!?? I done been arrested for letting my cows graze all over the fuckin hood FAMS! Y'all up here talking about you plush life growing up on in the country with fancy ass farms FAMS! Fucckoouttta here with that shit son! None of you been arrested for militia shit like me FAMS!


Sent from my Baller-Ass 5.5" iPhone 6+......... FAMS

Sounds like a hard life. Maybe you'd like to talk about it? A little help maybe?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[MARIS61]

Do you check out your sources?

Did you read the 2nd paragraph in your own post? Recognize the hate speech?

Yes, yes, and not at all.

 

[MARIS61]

Yeah you're going on ignore now.. I'm really sick of your vile responses...

Ah...the ignore button. Last refuge for posters who can't back up their viewpoints with facts.

Look up the word vile. It doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

[MarAzul]

Ah...the ignore button. Last refuge for posters...

Ha! It took you too long Maris.

 

[MARIS61]

How many people here were affected by anything these people did?

Are they spoiling your plans to go camping?

If not, it's a good example of big brother and people hassling others without real good reason.

All taxpayers were massively affected by the crimes of the Hammonds (cost of fire crews on several occasions, prosecution, appeals, and now prison costs), and the crimes of the Bundy boys (costs for LEO's, Federal employees idled on full pay because their workplace is occupied, backlog of work on refuge will require reassessments and maybe legal action to extend deadlines of projects under court oversight, eventual prosecution and prison costs for Bundy boys...).

 

[MARIS61]

You're.

Not.

Reading.

Please read Maris61's post.

It was not an "article".

You also conveniently have nothing to say to Maris who WORKS for BLM and knows the situation first hand.

Yet YOU bring up race and blame me for just that.

Weird...

To clarify, I have not worked at BLM since 1995.

 

[MARIS61]

How about the people actually affected get to have their say instead of someone many miles away with no standing?

All Americans have equal standing and equal ownership of Federal lands. Ranchers, and other Americans who profit from using resources off these lands do so at a ridiculously low cost compared to what they are charged for the same use of private property. Grazing leases on BLM land are usually about 20% of what private landowners charge for grazing.

 

[MARIS61]

I don't give a shit. The government has no business owning property.

If it is public land, then let the public use it. You're not using it, they are, so.... tough.

I use it. Not a week goes by that I don't use Federal land. I have visited Malheur Wildlife Refuge more times than I can count, and will visit it again many more times. It's a beautiful place.

 

[MARIS61]

5th amendment

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

They bought a judge and got a slap on the wrist. Prosecution appealed and correct sentence was applied.

Had they originally been sentenced to death would you object to a sentencing correction?

 

[Denny Crane]

They bought a judge and got a slap on the wrist. Prosecution appealed and correct sentence was applied.

Had they originally been sentenced to death would you object to a sentencing correction?

I was jogging MarAzul's failing memory, not stating an opinion about the sentence.

 

[MarAzul]

Grazing leases on BLM land are usually about 20% of what private landowners charge for grazing

It really is unfair to the private rancher raising a few head on his grazing land. When the big companies grazing on public land dump their stock on the market, the price goes to hell.
PPL doesn't seem to care but Family Farmer/Rancher sure takes a hit. I calculated that the Grazing fees charged for a Cow/Cave pair was less than the yearly property tax charged on private land to host a pair.

I alway hated to see the mess grazing cause on some of the land, especially in the riparian areas (or what should be). One side of my ranch was BLM and I stop using the grazing right shortly after I acquired the ranch. The creek that ran though my place began in the BLM area and it was a figging mess. It didn't help though to have my ranch stop running cows on the land, the BLM just permitted someone else to do it. That really pissed me off since I then had to string about 3/4 of mile of fence to keep those cows out of my farm land. The guys running these operations, often don't own a damn thing, except the truck to haul their cows to where they are going to turn them loose, rights or not.

 

[Denny Crane]

I use it. Not a week goes by that I don't use Federal land. I have visited Malheur Wildlife Refuge more times than I can count, and will visit it again many more times. It's a beautiful place.

Nothing stopped you. Where's the beef?

 

[Denny Crane]

All taxpayers were massively affected by the crimes of the Hammonds (cost of fire crews on several occasions, prosecution, appeals, and now prison costs), and the crimes of the Bundy boys (costs for LEO's, Federal employees idled on full pay because their workplace is occupied, backlog of work on refuge will require reassessments and maybe legal action to extend deadlines of projects under court oversight, eventual prosecution and prison costs for Bundy boys...).

What a waste of taxpayer money.

Let's not tax everyone for this and not have to pay for useless Federal employees.

 

[MARIS61]

What a waste of taxpayer money.

Let's not tax everyone for this and not have to pay for useless Federal employees.

I prefer to pay my taxes and support the Federal employees who protect this public land from criminals who deliberately destroy it. I prefer to pay my taxes and support the prosecution of arsonists who endanger lives and poachers who upset the balance of nature.

These are things the government does quite well in service to all Americans.

 

[MarAzul]

They bought a judge and got a slap on the wrist. Prosecution appealed and correct sentence was applied.

Had they originally been sentenced to death would you object to a sentencing correction?

Well the defendant always should have as many trips to court as it takes to get it right. Once is normally all the Prosecution gets, never heard of the prosecution appealing a conviction.
Seems down right wrong to do so after the sentence has be served. This must be a first. Oh, and by the way, my bias leads me to suspect grazers as devious, perhaps worse.