Minnesota wants Batum @ 11.25M a year

[RR7]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

That's been debunked. If that's the case, then every team and agent in the league is going to have their player sign literally the first second of July 11. Even with that, who knows really who signed first? Is there going to be a leaguewide video conference, with eagle-eyed league execs seeing who dots their I's and crosses their T's first at various offices around the land?

If that's the case, I like Portland's chances, because Roy Hibbert only has 10 letters, while Nicolas Batum has 12 letters. Both have one 'I' and one 'T', so that's a push. Somebody needs to teach Hibbert how to sign his name reallyreallysuper fast!

Anyhow, the whole "minutes" argument is absurd. Dwight Jaynes doesn't know what he was talking about last night.

this is different than what Jaynes was saying. jaynes was saying Batum's cap hold increases to his offer.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

I would like to see the Blazers do a S&T or not match. It's just too much $$$. I liked Batum, but this kind of $$ is pretty crazy. If push comes to shove, just let the T-pups have Batum. Personally I think Kahn is nuts! Surrounding Kevin Love with a boatload of PG's and SF's will not win you anything. Does Kahn hate his coach or something? What a mess.

 

[RR7]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

On one hand, Indy can tie up the Blazers' cap space for 3 days max. On the other, if Indy needs the QO sized cap space Hibbert represents, to sign his replacement, they might decline early.

True. Though they do have plenty of cap space, so I wouldn't think they would need to, but it's a possibility.

 

[RR7]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

I would like to see the Blazers do a S&T or not match. It's just too much $$$. I liked Batum, but this kind of $$ is pretty crazy. If push comes to shove, just let the T-pups have Batum. Personally I think Kahn is nuts! Surrounding Kevin Love with a boatload of PG's and SF's will not win you anything. Does Kahn hate his coach or something? What a mess.

Surrounding him with a boatload of PGs and SFs?

Likely have Rubio/Batum/Budinger/Love/Pekovic(or Gasol)
with Ridnour/Wes/Webster/Williams/Darko.

Seems like a solid and well rounded team.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

this is different than what Jaynes was saying. jaynes was saying Batum's cap hold increases to his offer.

The same principal applies, though. One player signing an offer sheet 3 seconds before another has no bearing on the offers that have been made. If the league says Nic signed at 12:00:03 and Hibbert at 12:00:04 on July 11th, that does not invalidate the contract to Hibbert. I really want to know where people are getting that information.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

Surrounding him with a boatload of PGs and SFs?

Likely have Rubio/Batum/Budinger/Love/Pekovic(or Gasol)
with Ridnour/Wes/Webster/Williams/Darko.

Seems like a solid and well rounded team.

That might be the worst defensive team in NBA history. It would be somewhat fun to watch, but it isn't going to win consistently.

 

[Natebishop3]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

That's been debunked. If that's the case, then every team and agent in the league is going to have their player sign literally the first second of July 11. Even with that, who knows really who signed first? Is there going to be a leaguewide video conference, with eagle-eyed league execs seeing who dots their I's and crosses their T's first at various offices around the land?

If that's the case, I like Portland's chances, because Roy Hibbert only has 10 letters, while Nicolas Batum has 12 letters. Both have one 'I' and one 'T', so that's a push. Somebody needs to teach Hibbert how to sign his name reallyreallysuper fast!

Anyhow, the whole "minutes" argument is absurd. Dwight Jaynes doesn't know what he was talking about last night.

The league has always gone off when things are submitted. Haven't you ever heard about people scrambling to get trades into the league office before the trade deadline?

I was under the impression that Dwight Jaynes was claiming that Batum's offer from Minny would go on our cap the second they made the offer and wouldn't come off until we either match or decline. That was debunked. This is about Batum getting his deal into the league office before our offer to Hibbert, and I 100% believe that the league counts by the second. Larry Coon has no clue how the league office processes orders, he's a cap guru.

So you're saying that as long as we get an offer signed the same day as Batum gets his signed, we're okay? I don't think that's accurate. Wasn't there a tweet earlier about Minny wanting Batum signed on the 11th so he's not just using them as leverage?

 

[RR7]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

The same principal applies, though. One player signing an offer sheet 3 seconds before another has no bearing on the offers that have been made. If the league says Nic signed at 12:00:03 and Hibbert at 12:00:04 on July 11th, that does not invalidate the contract to Hibbert. I really want to know where people are getting that information.

If the league went by who got in their offer first, then it would matter, IF we wanted to match Batum.

 

[Natebishop3]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

The same principal applies, though. One player signing an offer sheet 3 seconds before another has no bearing on the offers that have been made. If the league says Nic signed at 12:00:03 and Hibbert at 12:00:04 on July 11th, that does not invalidate the contract to Hibbert. I really want to know where people are getting that information.

No, it doesn't invalidate the offer to Hibbert. Maybe Indy declines before the 3rd day and we can get him signed and then Batum signed, but if Batum's deal gets submitted before Hibberts, it will mean that we have to decide if we match or don't match BEFORE Hibbert's deal goes into effect.

If we match Batum's deal before Hibbert's goes into effect, we essentially lose the cap space that we offered to Hibbert. I don't see any way around this other than declining Batum's option.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

The league has always gone off when things are submitted. Haven't you ever heard about people scrambling to get trades into the league office before the trade deadline?

I was under the impression that Dwight Jaynes was claiming that Batum's offer from Minny would go on our cap the second they made the offer and wouldn't come off until we either match or decline. That was debunked. This is about Batum getting his deal into the league office before our offer to Hibbert, and I 100% believe that the league counts by the second. Larry Coon has no clue how the league office processes orders, he's a cap guru.

So you're saying that as long as we get an offer signed the same day as Batum gets his signed, we're okay? I don't think that's accurate. Wasn't there a tweet earlier about Minny wanting Batum signed on the 11th so he's not just using them as leverage?

Every team wants their FA target to sign on July 11th. That way, if the original team matches, you can offer another FA that much sooner.

As for getting things in at the trade deadline, that's a separate issue.

Are people really thinking that if Batum signs his deal literally one second before Hibbert, that means that the Hibbert deal is invalid? I see nowhere in the CBA that even insinuates that to be the case.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

No, it doesn't invalidate the offer to Hibbert. Maybe Indy declines before the 3rd day and we can get him signed and then Batum signed, but if Batum's deal gets submitted before Hibberts, it will mean that we have to decide if we match or don't match BEFORE Hibbert's deal goes into effect.

If we match Batum's deal before Hibbert's goes into effect, we essentially lose the cap space that we offered to Hibbert. I don't see any way around this other than declining Batum's option.

And I'm telling you that it doesn't matter if Batum signs his offer sheet one second before Hibbert in terms of having to match.

 

[RR7]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

Every team wants their FA target to sign on July 11th. That way, if the original team matches, you can offer another FA that much sooner.

As for getting things in at the trade deadline, that's a separate issue.

Are people really thinking that if Batum signs his deal literally one second before Hibbert, that means that the Hibbert deal is invalid? I see nowhere in the CBA that even insinuates that to be the case.

Again, we are saying if the league goes off of time submitted. Do you know how they do it? If Batum's offer is submitted at 12:15Am, and Hibbert's at 12:16 AM, then technically we would have to match or decline 3 days after 12:15 Am, and indy would have until 12:16. If we had not heard from Indy by 12:15, we would need to decide on Batum. and if we decide to match, then we no longer have the cap space to fulfill the initial offer to Hibbert.

 

[RR7]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

And I'm telling you that it doesn't matter if Batum signs his offer sheet one second before Hibbert in terms of having to match.

Do you have a link to how the league determines it?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

I wanna know exactly how it works, damnit

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

Wait, so they are offering around $12m/per?

Neil has to look at other options. Let him go or try to work out a S&T, maybe pry the available Derrick Williams.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

Do you have a link to how the league determines it?

I assume the way they determined it during the truncated FA period last winter. I'd like to see the link that states that a team's FA offer can be invalidated because their own RFA signs an offer sheet literally seconds before the other target. Find me that, because I can't find it anywhere.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

Are people really thinking that if Batum signs his deal literally one second before Hibbert, that means that the Hibbert deal is invalid? I see nowhere in the CBA that even insinuates that to be the case.

What insinuates it is that once a team matches, the matched contract is the player's new caphold. If Batum's contract is matched first, theoretically his caphold would wipe out the cap space that the Blazers are using to extend Hibbert the offer.

I understand what you're saying about how it seems like it would be a silly system to base it on who gets their offers in on a second-by-second basis, but I haven't yet seen anything that conclusively shows whether the league does do that, or whether they have a "grace period," like all contracts submitted on the same day are considered "at the same time" and the player's caphold on the match doesn't go up til the end of the day of the match.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

I wanna know exactly how it works, damnit

The thought that Hibbert's entire 3 day waiting period can be basically wiped away after the fact, all because Nic Batum signed a contract 1 second earlier, is absurd. It defies common sense.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

What insinuates it is that once a team matches, the matched contract is the player's new caphold. If Batum's contract is matched first, theoretically his caphold would wipe out the cap space that the Blazers are using to extend Hibbert the offer.

I understand what you're saying about how it seems like it would be a silly system to base it on who gets their offers in on a second-by-second basis, but I haven't yet seen anything that conclusively shows whether the league does do that, or whether they have a "grace period," like all contracts submitted on the same day are considered "at the same time" and the player's caphold on the match doesn't go up til the end of the day of the match.

So, in the scenario where seconds count, a team's entire FA plan could go up in flames simply based on when it is determined an offer sheet was signed. As I said, if that's the case, then the league had better have videoconferencing set up with real-time observers. Even with that, what if it's too close to call? Does Portland just say hell, no biggie, so we keep Batum but lose Hibbert, just because Minnesota says Batum beat Hibbert by one second on signing his deal.

This isn't an episode of 24.

 

[Denny Crane]

No, it doesn't invalidate the offer to Hibbert. Maybe Indy declines before the 3rd day and we can get him signed and then Batum signed, but if Batum's deal gets submitted before Hibberts, it will mean that we have to decide if we match or don't match BEFORE Hibbert's deal goes into effect.

If we match Batum's deal before Hibbert's goes into effect, we essentially lose the cap space that we offered to Hibbert. I don't see any way around this other than declining Batum's option.

When they calculate the cap space, they use Batum's QO amount, period.

 

[BBert]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

I wanna know exactly how it works, damnit

Maybe when it's submitted to the league office for approval?

 

[PapaG]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

When they calculate the cap space, they use Batum's QO amount, period.

Seems obvious to me.

 

[BBert]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

I'm a bit confounded that some devoted fans would rather have a worse team, with fewer assets, than spend an extra $2mil of Paul Allen's money on Nicolas Batum, whom said fans would deem to be thus overpaid. The amount of empathy among these fans for our owner makes me weep with joy.


<<< This is me, weeping with joy.

 

[Natebishop3]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

Again, we are saying if the league goes off of time submitted. Do you know how they do it? If Batum's offer is submitted at 12:15Am, and Hibbert's at 12:16 AM, then technically we would have to match or decline 3 days after 12:15 Am, and indy would have until 12:16. If we had not heard from Indy by 12:15, we would need to decide on Batum. and if we decide to match, then we no longer have the cap space to fulfill the initial offer to Hibbert.

Well put RR7. That's how I'm understanding it. Why would the league give you an entire day grace people on your cap space? Generally they're pretty rigid in their interpretation of fair and how teams use their space.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

Maybe when it's submitted to the league office for approval?

What if one team has a slower internet connection than another, sent it first, but the league processed the other because they received it first?

What if the fax machine gets a jam at the worst possibly moment?

Hey, what if the pen the player is using runs out of ink or jams, meaning the other player finishes signing his deal first!!

Franchises are at stake on the things we can't control!

 

[RR7]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

When they calculate the cap space, they use Batum's QO amount, period.

if/when we match Batum's offer sheet, THAT is what counts on our cap space, not his QO.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

When they calculate the cap space, they use Batum's QO amount, period.

Get it?

If Minny signs Batum to a $12M offer sheet, he's a $12M cap hold to Minny and a QO sized hold for the Blazers.

If the Blazers have cap space, inlcuding the QO cap hold, to sign Hibbert, they have the cap space, period.

 

[Natebishop3]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

When they calculate the cap space, they use Batum's QO amount, period.

Why is this so hard to understand? Are we really being that unclear? Forget Hibbert for a minute. If the Blazers match Batum's offer from Minnesota, are they still only counting his QO cap hold? If Minnesota offers him 12 million per year, and we decide to match the offer within the 3 day time limit, will we lose the 12 million in cap space?

You have three days to match an offer on a RFA. Three days. I'm assuming those three days start from the minute they are received by the league office. If the league receives Batum's offer before Hibberts, that should mean that we have less time to match Batum's deal than Indy has to match Hibberts. They can just wait it out and if we decide to match Batum's offer, we no longer have the cap space to give Hibbert a max contract.

How is that so confusing?

 

[PapaG]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

Well put RR7. That's how I'm understanding it. Why would the league give you an entire day grace people on your cap space? Generally they're pretty rigid in their interpretation of fair and how teams use their space.

Because it's impossible to really know who signed their contract first, and it makes no sense to have an entire 3-day period wasted for a player (and team) when that contract can become invalid at literally the last second. That would be a fairly shitty way to run a league, and since the only people I've heard it from are a few on this board, I'm going to assume that the league has a better process in place than a Chinese Fire Drill at 12am EDT July 11th.

Hell, if seconds do matter, then the most important person in the organization isn't the GM, coach, or owner, but rather who can operate a fax machine the best, and better than 29 other teams.

 

[Natebishop3]

Re: Minnesota wants Batum @ ~12M a year

What if one team has a slower internet connection than another, sent it first, but the league processed the other because they received it first?

What if the fax machine gets a jam at the worst possibly moment?

Hey, what if the pen the player is using runs out of ink or jams, meaning the other player finishes signing his deal first!!

Franchises are at stake on the things we can't control!

Then they're screwed. The clock starts as soon as the league receives the signed contract from the team that's submitting it. 72 hours to match. You can either match within those 72 hours or you can pass, but if one offer is submitted before another, I would guess you have less time to match than the other team. I highly doubt the league is looking at a day as a whole period of time and not hours or even minutes to determine first come, first serve.