Rumor Moe Harklesss Part of Trade With Knicks !!!!!

[Scalma]

I'm sorry but you've been somewhat unbearable lately. You're comments to some people are getting over the top.

1.) If Melo can't attract free agents to New York City, what makes you think he'll play a factor in bringing free agents to Portland? His contract guarantees we won't have any space, and he's a ball stopper that doesn't defend. Strawman argument.

2.) Yes he's on the decline. His BPM last year was a -0.7, compared to a 2.6 the year before.

3.) He hasn't had multiple seasons of 40% 3pt shooting... For someone who's harking on people not getting their facts straight, to spew a lie like that... Carmelo is a career 34% 3pt shooter (worse than Meyers Leonard last year) and shot 34% the past 2 years before last year. He's a completely average 3pt shooter at BEST.

4.) All-Star appearances aren't a good way to gauge a player, as a Blazer fan you should know that. When a player (Melo) doesn't pass, doesn't defend, and chucks a bunch of shots in order to score 25ppg, he'll make a bunch if all-star teams, and wont be helping his team.

5.) I love how your using a small sample size of international basketball where Carmelo playing next to hall of famers against non-NBA players in your argument. How bout I use real NBA stats from last year:

53% TS% (Inefficient)
-2.2 DBPM (Horrible defender)
0.9 Assists Per 36 (Doesn't pass)
2.2 Turnovers Per 36 (Awful for someone who doesn't pass)

You caught me in a lie. He only had one and a half seasons. Including that one and a half, he also had three seasons of 37%+. And like I said, there's a huge difference between a Carmelo Anthony three, and a Meyers Leonard three, so bringing Leonards name into this is misleading at best. All of Leonards threes are catch and shoot. You want to compare them? Then check out Carmelos catch and shoot numbers.

Not being able to attract free agents to the Knicks probably has more to do with the dumpster fire of an organization rather than Carmelo Anthony. You also call him a diva, yet he's been a good amabassador for the game for quite some time now. Maybe earlier in his career he was one.

And if you can't see the point I was making with team USA, I'll bow out of this convo now.

 

[Scalma]

Also, your fascination with cap space is hilarious. You know you root for the Blazers, right?

 

[Scalma]

Actually @BonesJones the more I look into these stats you threw at me the more I laugh at you trying to call me out for lying.

0.9 assists per 36? False. Not even close.

2.2 turnovers is bad? False. Quite the opposite. That's actually very good for a guy that has the ball in his hands as much as Melo.

That's all I was in the mood to check for now.

 

[BonesJones]

Actually @BonesJones the more I look into these stats you threw at me the more I laugh at you trying to call me out for lying.

0.9 assists per 36? False. Not even close.

2.2 turnovers is bad? False. Quite the opposite. That's actually very good for a guy that has the ball in his hands as much as Melo.

That's all I was in the mood to check for now.

I was wrong. I was reading steals.

 

[BonesJones]

You caught me in a lie. He only had one and a half seasons. Including that one and a half, he also had three seasons of 37%+. And like I said, there's a huge difference between a Carmelo Anthony three, and a Meyers Leonard three, so bringing Leonards name into this is misleading at best. All of Leonards threes are catch and shoot. You want to compare them? Then check out Carmelos catch and shoot numbers.

Not being able to attract free agents to the Knicks probably has more to do with the dumpster fire of an organization rather than Carmelo Anthony. You also call him a diva, yet he's been a good amabassador for the game for quite some time now. Maybe earlier in his career he was one.

And if you can't see the point I was making with team USA, I'll bow out of this convo now.

You cherry pick stats to the fullest extent.

You're right that Meyers' 3s are all spot up. Carmelo still isn't a good 3pt shooter. I don't know how you're trying to argue hits 34% 3pt percentage.

I think its funny that youre wondering what my fascination is with cap space is because its the Blazers (and we can't attract free agents) but think that a 33yo, washed up Carmelo would help us attract free agents that we couldn't get because we'd have no space because we'd be paying Melo $28M a year. If Melo had that much draw on the FA market then it wouldn't matter what the situation was is NYC, free agents would sign there because Melo+NYC would be enough. Me lo+NYC Dumpster fire has as much draw as Melo+Good Portland team.

Every coach has had a problem with Melo. You don't think that's reflective of him?

You're point about Team USA is invalid because international competition made Kenneth Faried look like an all-world PF.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Also, your fascination with cap space is hilarious. You know you root for the Blazers, right?

This is a subject where we are singing kumbaya together

 

[Scalma]

Every coach has had a problem with Melo. You don't think that's reflective of him?

You're point about Team USA is invalid because international competition made Kenneth Faried look like an all-world PF.

Every coach has had a problem with Melo? You mean George Karl? I'll take Coach K and Jim Boeheims assessments (all of whom praise his leadership) on Anthony over that scumbag, thanks. Even Hornacek praised Melos leadership. I don't really value his assessments on anything, but I know you'll bring up that one incident they had.

For the last time, regarding team USA: my point was international Carmelo is more in line with what he would be asked to be in Portland. It had more to do with who was around him than who he was playing against. It shows he can adapt to being surrounded by good players and blend into a less selfish, but ultimately more efficient role.

 

[Trackjack]

I really don't know why the argument about Melo. Due to the fact that properly not the player Olshey going after in these trade talks. Melo don't fit Dame and CJ time line due to his age and for him become UFA next year. If I know Olshey it be a player like Hermangomez be his target in a trade situation.

 

[blue9]

Crowder or Middleton (Crowder is much more likely).

You think? I'd certainly be on-board, I'm just doubtful.

 

[riverman]

Carmelo playing next to hall of famers against non-NBA players

I disagree with this...Team USA is not filled with all hall of famers and international teams have lots of NBA players....Melo does play better for team USA...my opinion....coaching....I know Melo would rock the house under Stotts system on offense...comparing what a player does for one coach doesn't always translate to other systems....NY has had a dysfunctional front office and roster since Melo has been there....it's not all on him. I just don't see him ever wanting to play in a small market....I'd say the Clippers might move Griffin for him in a trade if anything or Cuban will call him.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I really don't know why the argument about Melo. Due to the fact that properly not the player Olshey going after in these trade talks. Melo don't fit Dame and CJ time line due to his age and for him become UFA next year. If I know Olshey it be a player like Hermangomez be his target in a trade situation.

Interesting article on him here : http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-hernangomez-has-become-part-of-knicks-future

Sounds like he is another stretch "5" because he can not cover 4's on the perimeter.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I really don't know why the argument about Melo. Due to the fact that properly not the player Olshey going after in these trade talks. Melo don't fit Dame and CJ time line due to his age and for him become UFA next year. If I know Olshey it be a player like Hermangomez be his target in a trade situation.

Right, so let's pretend Carmelo Anthony is not a ball stopping, inefficient black hole who doesn't play defense. Even if he were none of those things, he's already 33-years old. The whole point is to try to build a team around our core that will be able to hopefully catch, and pass, the Warriors when they are on their way down. Adding 33-year old Carmelo Anthony to our current roster won't make us good enough to beat the Warriors now and by the time Durant, Curry and company start to decline, Carmelo will be drawing social security. His best season was five years ago, in 2012-13 and he has been in steady decline since.

And then, there's his contract... He'll be making $26.2 million in 2017-18. So, the good news is we'd be able to dump an equivalent amount of salary on the Knicks. The bad news is what happens after 2017-18. He has an early termination option. He could very well bolt and end up being a one year rental. Or, he could stay for another year and his $27.9 million salary would be the highest of four players on our roster making over $20 million a year (when Nurk's extension kicks in). Do we really want to be playing an over-the-hill 35-year old nearly $28 million? Why? He isn't the missing piece that will eventually get us past the Warriors. He's four years older than Durant and Curry and six years older than Green and Thompson.

Overpaying past-their-prime former superstars is a VERY Knick thing to do. They have been doing it for years and it hasn't come close to working for them. Acquiring Carmelo Anthony would make us the Western Conference version of the New York Knicks, and who would ever want to be that?

BNM

 

[riverman]

Overpaying past-their-prime former superstars is a VERY Knick thing to do

I've pretty much accepted that all NBA players are going to get overpaid...but I'm starting to think that the Warriors were pretty smart to bring in Andre Iguodala and the Cavs were smart to bring in Richard Jefferson...Spurs have Manu Ginobli....most contenders have seasoned vets on the roster...so we draft young and develop or try to contend sooner. Melo has played for two NBA teams....a change of coaching could be what he needs. Still, I don't see him as an Olshey move. Rolo wasn't considered as much of a center until he got in the right system in Portland. I'm curious as to what a tall shooter like him would accomplish with Stotts system getting him shots. My bet would be it's not going to happen here. As long as the Knicks are overpaying...I'd offer them Leonard and Crabbe and let them pick up the check.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I've pretty much accepted that all NBA players are going to get overpaid...but I'm starting to think that the Warriors were pretty smart to bring in Andre Iguodala and the Cavs were smart to bring in Richard Jefferson...Spurs have Manu Ginobli....most contenders have seasoned vets on the roster...so we draft young and develop or try to contend sooner. Melo has played for two NBA teams....a change of coaching could be what he needs. Still, I don't see him as an Olshey move. Rolo wasn't considered as much of a center until he got in the right system in Portland. I'm curious as to what a tall shooter like him would accomplish with Stotts system getting him shots. My bet would be it's not going to happen here. As long as the Knicks are overpaying...I'd offer them Leonard and Crabbe and let them pick up the check.

Iggy was 29 when he signed with the Warriors. He signed for $12 million per year. Carmelo is now 33 and will make $26 million next season. The salary cap went up, but it didn't more than double.

Jefferson was 35 when the Cavs signed him but they got him for $2.5 million a year last summer AFTER the cap had gone up. He makes less than 10% of what Carmelo makes.

Manu was signed to a 1-year $14 million contract last summer. The only reason he got that is because PHI was willing to offer him that much. It was a lifetime achievement award from the Spurs as he'd been underpaid for years (made $2.8 million the year before) and he, and they, wanted him to retire in a San Antonio uniform.

Signing of these vets was not in any way the same as trading for a 33-year old that will make $26.2 million this year and possibly $27.9 million the next (the same year Nurk's eventual extension will kick in).

Those guys are veterans coming off the bench, not starters. Sure, I'd be more than happy to add a couple savvy veterans to our bench mob, but I'n not interested in adding a 33-year old, no defense, ball stopping black hole to our starting line up. Especially one who makes over $26 million a year.

BNM

 

[riverman]

He signed for $12 million per year

back in the day but both the Cavs and Warriors are facing huge payrolls to keep these superstar rosters together

 

[riverman]

Manu was signed to a 1-year $14 million contract last summer

and how many rings did Manu get after 30? I understand not liking older vets but I've been questioning that strategy after our last season and watching the finals.....Richard Jefferson plays like he's 25 still....way better than younger teammates Shumpert or JR....there's a demonstrable case for needing seasoned vets to contend or at least a sprinkling of them.

 

[Blazer4ever]

I would trade for Melo.
Him being UFA next year is a good thing, we'll have a year to see how good he fits.
Him being older is the reason we can get him, we can't have an entire team all the same age and it wouldn't guarantee us success anyway.
I like our chances with Dame, CJ, Melo, it would at least be interesting

 

[Trackjack]

Already Olshey have said he going to build this team around Dame window and Melo doesn't fit that window. Due I think we need couple veterans players that might not fit in that window yes just for there leadership and there experienced in league. Yes Dame is a good leader but we need more than Dame. And veterans experience is real crucial in this day of the NBA.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I think a big difference between Melo and Jefferson, Iguodala and Ginobli is that those three guys go balls-out every minute they are in the game; does Melo?

 

[Boob-No-More]

and how many rings did Manu get after 30? I understand not liking older vets but I've been questioning that strategy after our last season and watching the finals.....Richard Jefferson plays like he's 25 still....way better than younger teammates Shumpert or JR....there's a demonstrable case for needing seasoned vets to contend or at least a sprinkling of them.

Oh, I'm perfectly fine adding a smattering of vets to our roster - just not ones that are making $26+ million a year.

Melo's production is basically declining at the same rate his salary is increasing. That's never a good combination.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I would trade for Melo.
Him being UFA next year is a good thing, we'll have a year to see how good he fits.
Him being older is the reason we can get him, we can't have an entire team all the same age and it wouldn't guarantee us success anyway.
I like our chances with Dame, CJ, Melo, it would at least be interesting

Do you really think 33-year old Carmelo Anthony increases our chances at getting past the Warriors, either short term or long term?

Short term, he gives another solid scoring option, and that could be a good thing (as long as he isn't the ball stopping, inefficient scorer he has been in NY), but who does he guard? No way in hell does he defend Kevin Durant close to as well as the guys we already have (Harkless, Aminu and even Turner). OK, so put him on their power forward instead - yeah right, Draymond Green would have a field day with Carmelo Anthony trying to guard him. So, short term he might improve our offense, but our defense gets even worse, a lot worse - which is hard to even imagine.

Long term, he's already 33 and rapidly declining. He might end up being a 1-year, or possibly 2-year rental. In which case, there is no long term.

I just don't see how he helps us short term or long term, and if he doesn't, why make the trade?

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I think a big difference between Melo and Jefferson, Iguodala and Ginobli is that those three guys go balls-out every minute they are in the game; does Melo?

No, of course, not (good point). And, those guys are also bench players who come in, disrupt things with their energy and then go back to the bench. They are not starters that you depend on for 36+ minutes a game. If we traded for Carmelo, he'd be a starter and our 2nd or 3rd scoring option, given his already declining production, his inefficiency and his complete lack of defense, I can't see how he helps us in any significant way - at least not during the post season.

His scoring may help us win more regular season games, as having a reliable 3rd scorer, even an inefficient one, would mean fewer losses against the teams we should beat on nights when Dame and C.J. just don't have it going. So, he may help us get more wins against bad teams, but against good teams, especially in the playoffs, I don't really see how he helps us in any substantial way.

BNM

 

[riverman]

I think a big difference between Melo and Jefferson, Iguodala and Ginobli is that those three guys go balls-out every minute they are in the game; does Melo?

I can't really speak to Melo's games with the Nuggets and Knicks but I've watched him rock the house for team USA under Thibs and Coach K and play smart...I almost never see the Knicks play but I know he's on a completely dysfunctional team that's given him a handful of coaching changes and roster changes...my thought is that stability is a team concept and we seem to have that in spades....great place to just play basketball...New York is brutal to players. I also think being around high character guys would be a change for him....

 

[Scalma]

I can't really speak to Melo's games with the Nuggets and Knicks but I've watched him rock the house for team USA under Thibs and Coach K and play smart...I almost never see the Knicks play but I know he's on a completely dysfunctional team that's given him a handful of coaching changes and roster changes...my thought is that stability is a team concept and we seem to have that in spades....great place to just play basketball...New York is brutal to players. I also think being around high character guys would be a change for him....

I just think looking at carmelo in the vacuum of his career with the knicks can keep someone from seeing the potential of Carmelo on a structured team. And remember what we'd be giving up. We're not exactly losing foundational pieces here.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Do you really think 33-year old Carmelo Anthony increases our chances at getting past the Warriors, either short term or long term?

BNM

No one does if they are at full strength. short term. We just need to be as good as possible and hope for an injury by the Warriors. Which actually is not that unrealistic to hope for.

As far as Melo......I would take him if it meant shedding some long term contracts. I kind of agree with Blazer4ever on this. If it works out Melo would pick up his option on the 2nd year. If it doesn't he would leave and we would be off the hook for the 26 million we traded. Say ET (or Crabbe) and Harkless for Melo.
Again, not a needle mover but more of an interesting gamble while we groom the young SF we draft for a couple of years.

 

[chzbrgr]

Melo is one of the most polished offensive players the NBA has ever seen. He is consistently viewed as one of the hardest matchups in the league. I'm not saying sell the house to get him or that he is who we should be spending our time going after...but if we can get him for a couple first rounders and crabbe? There is literally zero reason not to make that deal. What the nay sayers need to realize is he would be our best player, not the leader, but without question the best individual basketball player on the roster.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Melo is one of the most polished offensive players the NBA has ever seen. He is consistently viewed as one of the hardest matchups in the league. I'm not saying sell the house to get him or that he is who we should be spending our time going after...but if we can get him for a couple first rounders and crabbe? There is literally zero reason not to make that deal. What the nay sayers need to realize is he would be our best player, not the leader, but without question the best individual basketball player on the roster.

At one point in his career I would agree. I feared facing him in Denver. He was unguardable. .But how much has he lost? I really don't know because I never watch the Knicks.

 

[BBert]

Sure, I'd be more than happy to add a couple savvy veterans to our bench mob, but I'n not interested in adding a 33-year old, no defense, ball stopping black hole to our starting line up. Especially one who makes over $26 million a year.

BNM

I mean...this is obvious...right?

 

[chzbrgr]

At one point in his career I would agree. I feared facing him in Denver. He was unguardable. .But how much has he lost? I really don't know because I never watch the Knicks.

He hasn't lost much honestly, the knicks just suck. Watch him for team USA, he is still unguardable. More than that the dude is just savvy on the court, he knows all the little tricks and has every move. CJ and Dame would learn so much from him being around for a season or two. Rather have that than 19m per to try to TEACH crabbe something.

 

[ripcityboy]

Isn't Melo separated from Lala now? That was the one major reason I COULDN'T see him leaving. She was involved in producing music shows and had business in NY. I mean, if THAT's not an isue, what is truly stopping him from being shopped here? Other than maybe he hates the place and would never want to come. Pippen spent a few seasons here and never kept residence as far as I know. I mean, I can think of worse trades to make. And the Knicks are in garbage dumpster mode. We may have to give up something major but it might push the needle. Just sayin,'