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I wonder how much tickets will cost in the 500 level?
 
BassPlaya said:
I know I'm going to regret this but, what does the bolded mean? BTW, my reply is not at you personally, but at this idea...

Do you mean every fan that goes to games or pays for home viewership?
Does not complaining here....repeatedly....mean that a fan is "Ok", with sucking? Please don't tell me that you think complaining here has
any effect on the teams decision making. Again, not singling you out, I am genuinely confused at this.
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Complaining has absolutely nothing to do with my comment.

I was commenting on the strategy by a few fans that essentially the most important goal the Blazer front office should have is finding a "star". And the best way for a small market team like Portland to get a star is through the draft. So whether or not it takes 1 year, 4 years, or even 6 years....we should not worry about winning games (or keeping players who are not young and would hurt our lottery chances) because the best way to land a star is by sucking enough to help land a top 3 pick. I hate putting words in their mouths so they can correct me if I am off base.

Now while I can see the logic in this, I don't like it. I think it is a bit risky for a small market team to suck that many years in a row because as we saw last year at the end of the season, even die-hard fans on this board admitted they stopped watching the games. Now add another 6 years of that, which coincidentally is around the same time the lease is up. Thus my remark about it being risky. I understand that it should not take that long to land a "star", but what if it did? You need good players to entertain the fan base, or you will lose them.
 
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Pinwheel1 said:
We have had 3 chances in the lotto and I am happy with all 3. And all 3 will play. I am good with 1 more. But no more than that.
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that is just an arbitrary cut-off line that makes no sense, at least it doesn't to me. Minny needed about 15 chances to land KAT and Edwards. One of those "3 chances" for Portland was a 7th pick in what is almost universally considered one of the worst drafts in the last 15 years. Boston had 5 chances in the lottery to build their championship team

what Portland absolutely needs is an all-pro player...a top-10 talent...a superstar....and much more. We don't even know if any of Sharpe-Scoot-Clingan will even climb to all-star level, but the early returns are realistically disappointing and optimistically mixed.

* in his 2nd season, KAT averaged 25-12-3; a PER of 26; TS% .618
* as a rookie, Anthony Edwards averaged 19-5-3; in his 2nd season, 21-5-4
* in his 2nd season, Haliburton averaged 15-4-8 while shooting 41.4% on three's
* in his 3rd season, Tatum averaged 21-7-3 with a PER over 20
* in his 2nd season, SGA averaged 19-6-3; in his 3rd season, 24-5-6
* in his 2nd season, Durant averaged 25-7-3; in his 3rd season, 30-8-3
* in his 2nd season, Booker averaged 22-3-3; in his 3rd season, 25-5-5

Sharpe will be in his 3rd season, Scoot his 2nd, and one of them will be stuck on the bench behind Ant

the worst thing the Blazers can do is shut down 'the tank' prematurely, end up with no perennial all-star talent, and get locked in that futile purgatory of play-in/end-of-lottery/1st-round-exit. Lousy drafts picks and no realistic upside
 
wizenheimer said:
that is just an arbitrary cut-off line that makes no sense, at least it doesn't to me. Minny needed about 15 chances to land KAT and Edwards. One of those "3 chances" for Portland was a 7th pick in what is almost universally considered one of the worst drafts in the last 15 years. Boston had 5 chances in the lottery to build their championship team

what Portland absolutely needs is an all-pro player...a top-10 talent...a superstar....and much more. We don't even know if any of Sharpe-Scoot-Clingan will even climb to all-star level, but the early returns are realistically disappointing and optimistically mixed.

* in his 2nd season, KAT averaged 25-12-3; a PER of 26; TS% .618
* as a rookie, Anthony Edwards averaged 19-5-3; in his 2nd season, 21-5-4
* in his 2nd season, Haliburton averaged 15-4-8 while shooting 41.4% on three's
* in his 3rd season, Tatum averaged 21-7-3 with a PER over 20
* in his 2nd season, SGA averaged 19-6-3; in his 3rd season, 24-5-6
* in his 2nd season, Durant averaged 25-7-3; in his 3rd season, 30-8-3
* in his 2nd season, Booker averaged 22-3-3; in his 3rd season, 25-5-5

Sharpe will be in his 3rd season, Scoot his 2nd, and one of them will be stuck on the bench behind Ant

the worst thing the Blazers can do is shut down 'the tank' prematurely, end up with no perennial all-star talent, and get locked in that futile purgatory of play-in/end-of-lottery/1st-round-exit. Lousy drafts picks and no realistic upside
Click to expand...

Yep just keep losing until we find that star. Then hope we can get that second star so they can win something. I am sure the fans of whatever city the Blazers are in by that time will appreciate it.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Yep just keep losing until we find that star. Then hope we can get that second star so they can win something. I am sure the fans of whatever city the Blazers are in by that time will appreciate it.
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:smiley-195517897341:smiley-195517897341:smiley-195517897341
 
wizenheimer said:
that is just an arbitrary cut-off line that makes no sense, at least it doesn't to me. Minny needed about 15 chances to land KAT and Edwards. One of those "3 chances" for Portland was a 7th pick in what is almost universally considered one of the worst drafts in the last 15 years. Boston had 5 chances in the lottery to build their championship team

what Portland absolutely needs is an all-pro player...a top-10 talent...a superstar....and much more. We don't even know if any of Sharpe-Scoot-Clingan will even climb to all-star level, but the early returns are realistically disappointing and optimistically mixed.

* in his 2nd season, KAT averaged 25-12-3; a PER of 26; TS% .618
* as a rookie, Anthony Edwards averaged 19-5-3; in his 2nd season, 21-5-4
* in his 2nd season, Haliburton averaged 15-4-8 while shooting 41.4% on three's
* in his 3rd season, Tatum averaged 21-7-3 with a PER over 20
* in his 2nd season, SGA averaged 19-6-3; in his 3rd season, 24-5-6
* in his 2nd season, Durant averaged 25-7-3; in his 3rd season, 30-8-3
* in his 2nd season, Booker averaged 22-3-3; in his 3rd season, 25-5-5

Sharpe will be in his 3rd season, Scoot his 2nd, and one of them will be stuck on the bench behind Ant

the worst thing the Blazers can do is shut down 'the tank' prematurely, end up with no perennial all-star talent, and get locked in that futile purgatory of play-in/end-of-lottery/1st-round-exit. Lousy drafts picks and no realistic upside
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Great post. And pretty much all of those players were given the reins or had a point guard who was a willing distributor.

They were not forced to "earn" their minutes behind middleing vets like Ant and Grant.

This fear of trading people who have proven they're not stars makes no sense to me. They need to be gone and we need to be drafting high picks as soon as possible and for as long as it takes.

This was the decision we made in trading Dame. It was a burn it down and suck for a long time thing. That's the only way teams like this can become legitimate playoffs teams with a chance at winning a title.

It sucks. And I didn't want to trade Dame. But here we are. We only have one option if we want to compete in a reasonable amount of time. I don't want to get it wrong. We need to stock up on draft capital.

We must get rid of the ball stoppers. They will 100% hurt our team in the long run.

The only vets that we should consider keeping right now are great defenders and willing passers and players with all-star potential.

And even they should be available for trade for the right draft capital. We need to be getting the highest draft picks we possibly can until we know we have two or three all stars with at least one having the potential to be a superstar.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Yep just keep losing until we find that star. Then hope we can get that second star so they can win something. I am sure the fans of whatever city the Blazers are in by that time will appreciate it.
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If Portland can't deal with losing as long as it takes to be competitive then they don't deserve a team.

Portland hasn't done its part to be a destination city. Portland hasn't done its part They have enough billionaires to make big enough offers to keep the team here.

I sincerely hope the team doesn't move. But I'm not going to hope that they never compete for a championship just to keep a treadmilling team in Portland.

And for the record, I don't think The Trail Blazers are going anywhere. There isn't a bigger market out there that is more likely to support a team than Portland.

I don't think the NBA would support a move. I think they want another team in Seattle and they want to keep a team in Portland.

Having only one Northwest team is not good for the league.

If Minnesota can lose for decades without losing their team there's no reason Portland can't as well. Not that we should have to, but it may take a little while. I think we're good enough and drafting that we can do this in five or six mid to high lotto picks. I think we got a good start on it with the three that we already have. We need top three pics the next two or three seasons.

And we need to get our middling vets out of the way.
 
Phatguysrule said:
And for the record, I don't think The Trail Blazers are going anywhere. There isn't a bigger market out there that is more likely to support a team than Portland.

I don't think the NBA would support a move. I think they want another team in Seattle and they want to keep a team in Portland.

Having only one Northwest team is not good for the league.
Click to expand...

I agree. The Trail Blazers are not leaving Portland. Ever.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Yep just keep losing until we find that star. Then hope we can get that second star so they can win something. I am sure the fans of whatever city the Blazers are in by that time will appreciate it.
Click to expand...

what other path is there to contention for the Blazers?

the Blazers can't sign free agents, and the players they have aren't going to be traded for top-4 picks, maybe not even lottery picks. Dame was traded just a year ago, so the rebuild is in it's infancy and you're advocating to end it 10 months from now
 
It would be interesting to know what the buyout of the lease is or the penalty if the Blazers break the lease.

I can't imagine it would be much compared to the price the new owner will pay for the team.

The city of Portland has promised to come up with a plan for the Rose Quarter district and the MC for over 30 years. I have no faith that they will do anything now.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Yep just keep losing until we find that star. Then hope we can get that second star so they can win something. I am sure the fans of whatever city the Blazers are in by that time will appreciate it.
Click to expand...

No way I would want to copy Minnesotas Process. Check out all the solid lottery picks since going the league. I do not want to be like Minnesota, slippers or kings where you go 10-20 years without being a playoff team. Tourney and playoff hoops is what creates the excitement for the NBA not chronically losing over the the years.
 
wizenheimer said:
what other path is there to contention for the Blazers?

the Blazers can't sign free agents, and the players they have aren't going to be traded for top-4 picks, maybe not even lottery picks. Dame was traded just a year ago, so the rebuild is in it's infancy and you're advocating to end it 10 months from now
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It will take some luck. But next year needs to be the last tank job.

The Warriors did it without a top 4 pick. Denver did it without a top 4 pick. Being in the lottery helps but you don't need to intentionally tank year after year trying to land a top pick.

Jokic. 41st
Haliburton 12th by Sac
SGA 11th by Charlotte
Booker 13th
Giannis 15th
 
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Hoopguru said:
No way I would want to copy Minnesotas Process. Check out all the solid lottery picks since going the league. I do not want to be like Minnesota, slippers or kings where you go 10-20 years without being a playoff team. Tourney and playoff hoops is what creates the excitement for the NBA not chronically losing over the the years.
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Nobody wants that. The difference is having good ownership or not. Good management or not.

Minnesota has shitty management. As of the kings. As have the Clippers.

We can't control that. All we can control is supporting that we do the right thing to put ourselves in the right position.

Cutting a rebuild short is what bad management does. Keeping Grant and Ant and trying to win with them to sell the fans on the idea that they are "trying to win" too soon is what bad management does.

That's a Minnesota move. That's a Clippers move. That's a King's move.

That's my fear. I fear that they'll do that in order to up the value of the team to make sure Jody can keep getting her payments. Rather than doing the right thing which is harder. Losing for a couple years longer to really compete. You could gain five or six extra years of being competitive. Maybe even a decade if you consider that you could do it in one rebuild rather than attempting two or three rebuilds before you finally actually get back to where we were with Dame.

If we want to compete there really is only one option. When to lose right now. And we need to lose hard. And we need to draft well. And we need to get rid of our competitive vets right now in order to make that happen as soon as possible.

If you want to win quickly, that's what you should be supporting. Because anything short of that and we are not going to win. We are not going to get playoff wins.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
It will take some luck. But next year needs to be the last tank job.

The Warriors did it without a top 4 pick. Denver did it without a top 4 pick. Being in the lottery helps but you don't need to intentionally tank year after year trying to land a top pick.

Jokic. 41st
Haliburton 12th by Sac
SGA 11th by Charlotte
Booker 13th
Click to expand...
Which of those guys had a vet (like Ant or Grant) in their way?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Which of those guys had a vet (like Ant or Grant) in their way?
Click to expand...

I am sorry, but this is such a weak ass argument. Most of your other points have at least some validity, but this one continues to be ridiculous.

You might not like Grant or Ant and that is fine, but to think that the growth of Scoot or Shae has somehow been stunted by either of them is crazy. And they won't be standing in Clingan's way either.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Jokic. 41st
Haliburton 12th by Sac
SGA 11th by Charlotte
Booker 13th
Giannis 15th
Click to expand...

yeah....the Blazers can count on something like that:

Qyntel Woods - 21st
Sebastian Telfaire - 13th
Travis Outlaw - 23rd
Jarrett Jack - 27th
Ricky Samchez - 35th
Joel Freeland - 30th
Josh McRoberts - 37th
Derrick Byars - 42nd
Jarryd Bayless - 13th
Nic Batum - 25th
Victor Claver - 22nd
Dante Cunningham - 33rd
Eliot Williams - 22nd
Armon Johnson - 34th
Meyers Leonard - 11th
Will Barton - 40th
CJ - 10th
Zach Collins - 10th
Caleb Swanigan - 26th
Ant - 24th
Little - 25th
Jabari Walker - 57th
Kris Murray - 23rd
Nolan Smith - 21st

24 picks outside of the top-7 over 2 decades and only 3 legitimate starters in that group, and those 3 all had flaws

the last 3 drafts are inconclusive....but prior to this current 'tank', over the previous 20 years, the Blazers had 4 top-7 draft picks: Aldridge, Roy, Oden, Dame. 24 players--> no all-star votes vs 4 players-->18 all-star games. The critical value for a small market team like Portland is in those top-picks. But counting on generational good luck to show up and bless the Blazers is a hollow plan
 
wizenheimer said:
yeah....the Blazers can count on something like that:


24 picks outside of the top-7 over 2 decades and only 3 legitimate starters in that group, and those 3 all had flaws

the last 3 drafts are inconclusive....but prior to this current 'tank', over the previous 20 years, the Blazers had 4 top-7 draft picks: Aldridge, Roy, Oden, Dame. 24 players--> no all-star votes vs 4 players-->18 all-star games. The critical value for a small market team like Portland is in those top-picks. But counting on generational good luck to show up and bless the Blazers is a hollow plan
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Yeah, the Blazers can't count on a lot of things....like a top 2 pick.
Larue Martin, Sam Bowie, Greg Oden.

Walton was an exception but we also got lucky because the ABA disbanded one year later giving us Luke. (and Moses but that is an entirely different discussion)

Dame and Clyde were not top picks.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Yeah, the Blazers can't count on a lot of things....like a top 2 pick.
Larue Martin, Sam Bowie, Greg Oden.
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LOL...you think that proves your argument...that being that arbitrarily saying the end of tanking years should be 10 months from now.

it actually proves the opposite and that is you need to roll the dice of top-7 picks several times because there will be busts
 
wizenheimer said:
LOL...you think that proves your argument...that being that arbitrarily saying the end of tanking years should be 10 months from now.

it actually proves the opposite and that is you need to roll the dice of top-7 picks several times because there will be busts
Click to expand...

Did listing our picks for the last 2 decades prove that we should keep tanking until we get it right? My point was you can't count on anything.

But yes I believe that 4 years of intentionally tanking is enough. By then you should have enough young talent to build on....if not then it is time to try to win with what you have and hopefully get lucky with adding someone else.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
It would be interesting to know what the buyout of the lease is or the penalty if the Blazers break the lease.

I can't imagine it would be much compared to the price the new owner will pay for the team.

The city of Portland has promised to come up with a plan for the Rose Quarter district and the MC for over 30 years. I have no faith that they will do anything now.
Click to expand...
You know that Idea you had for Riverboat Gambling on the Willamette River? I actually talked to one of my friends who is on the board at Ilani. His response caught me off guard. He told me that idea had come up but every tribe Grand Ronde, Coquille, Siletz, Cowlitz would step all over it. It would cause literal Indian wars.
I really never thought of it that way. The only way that would ever fly would be for the state to actually change the laws and become a gambling mecca like Las Vegas. Which obviously would never happen because we are way too liberal for that right? Just the brothels alone would be epic!
 
wizenheimer said:
yeah....the Blazers can count on something like that:

Qyntel Woods - 21st
Sebastian Telfaire - 13th
Travis Outlaw - 23rd
Jarrett Jack - 27th
Ricky Samchez - 35th
Joel Freeland - 30th
Josh McRoberts - 37th
Derrick Byars - 42nd
Jarryd Bayless - 13th
Nic Batum - 25th
Victor Claver - 22nd
Dante Cunningham - 33rd
Eliot Williams - 22nd
Armon Johnson - 34th
Meyers Leonard - 11th
Will Barton - 40th
CJ - 10th
Zach Collins - 10th
Caleb Swanigan - 26th
Ant - 24th
Little - 25th
Jabari Walker - 57th
Kris Murray - 23rd
Nolan Smith - 21st

24 picks outside of the top-7 over 2 decades and only 3 legitimate starters in that group, and those 3 all had flaws

the last 3 drafts are inconclusive....but prior to this current 'tank', over the previous 20 years, the Blazers had 4 top-7 draft picks: Aldridge, Roy, Oden, Dame. 24 players--> no all-star votes vs 4 players-->18 all-star games. The critical value for a small market team like Portland is in those top-picks. But counting on generational good luck to show up and bless the Blazers is a hollow plan
Click to expand...
So the probability (Law of averages) is through the roof right?
 
kjironman1 said:
You know that Idea you had for Riverboat Gambling on the Willamette River? I actually talked to one of my friends who is on the board at Ilani. His response caught me off guard. He told me that idea had come up but every tribe Grand Ronde, Coquille, Siletz, Cowlitz would step all over it. It would cause literal Indian wars.
I really never thought of it that way. The only way that would ever fly would be for the state to actually change the laws and become a gambling mecca like Las Vegas. Which obviously would never happen because we are way too liberal for that right? Just the brothels alone would be epic!
Click to expand...

Prostitution isn't legal in Las Vegas, lol.

The biggest gambling market in the state has been lost to Ilani. If you were to offer a way for the tribes to team up as one entity to operate a casino in the Portland core I bet they would work together and jump on it. There has to be some sort of big vision plan for that area to work. Right now all the City of Portland wants to do is offer big developers sweet deals to build giant apartment buildings with no parking and then build more bike lanes.
 
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