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magnifier661 said:
Keep in mind that Aldridge wanted Hibbert bad. He was one of the major recruiters to bring him in. And honestly, I don't think Caroll and Chandler is enough to convince Aldridge to come back, IMO.
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Chandler is as good as Hibbert, a locker room leader and has championship experience, and Carroll is a 40% 3pt shooter who's a lockdown defender and works his ass off, and you think LA would want them less than Roy Hibbert????
 
BrianFromWA said:
How do you figure Vonleh has a "slim chance" of becoming Jermaine? And no, overpriced role players are at the bottom of the list for a reason. Which champion do you know said "I know! Let's pay 8M a year for a role player. That'll put us over the top!" Not even JJ Redick or Kyle Korver or Tony Allen (much better "role players" than Ariza) got 8M/yr, and they didn't put their teams over the top. Who did the Heat or Spurs overpay to be a role player? No one. They got a bunch of MLE, BAE and vet min contracts while (in the Spurs' case) they picked up young players with upside to develop that others had passed on. Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills all played "role player" parts on some really good teams. Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole were young guys who played a role, and role players like Battier and Anderson and RayRay didn't make 8M/yr.

So yeah, recent history shows that winning teams have more Noah Vonleh types contributing (rookie contracts, upside, maybe not their first team) than Trevor Ariza types (veteran role players, 8M+/yr, downside of career). If we don't have 2-3 go-to players, it doesn't matter if we have role players or not. If we do, we don't need to waste cash (or the opportunity of getting those go-to players) on expensive role players.
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I guess yall forgot about the Spurs paying Diaw $8M, Splitter $11M, and relying on their ROLE PLAYERS for championships! Roy Hibbert is a role player but you guys want his $15M contract so bad!
BTW I've changed it from Ariza to Chandler. Chandler is more gettable, a better player, and cheaper
 
BrianFromWA said:
How do you figure Vonleh has a "slim chance" of becoming Jermaine? And no, overpriced role players are at the bottom of the list for a reason. Which champion do you know said "I know! Let's pay 8M a year for a role player. That'll put us over the top!" Not even JJ Redick or Kyle Korver or Tony Allen (much better "role players" than Ariza) got 8M/yr, and they didn't put their teams over the top. Who did the Heat or Spurs overpay to be a role player? No one. They got a bunch of MLE, BAE and vet min contracts while (in the Spurs' case) they picked up young players with upside to develop that others had passed on. Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills all played "role player" parts on some really good teams. Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole were young guys who played a role, and role players like Battier and Anderson and RayRay didn't make 8M/yr.

So yeah, recent history shows that winning teams have more Noah Vonleh types contributing (rookie contracts, upside, maybe not their first team) than Trevor Ariza types (veteran role players, 8M+/yr, downside of career). If we don't have 2-3 go-to players, it doesn't matter if we have role players or not. If we do, we don't need to waste cash (or the opportunity of getting those go-to players) on expensive role players.
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how do you figure Vonleh will become Jermaine O'Neal????
 
Natebishop3 said:
In the same way that not wearing your seat belt and driving drunk are both moving violations.
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In the workplace youd get fired for underperforming as much as Hibbert did in this 2014 playoffs, and it wouldn't matter if his best friend co-worker fucked his wife.
 
BrianFromWA said:
How do you figure Vonleh has a "slim chance" of becoming Jermaine? And no, overpriced role players are at the bottom of the list for a reason. Which champion do you know said "I know! Let's pay 8M a year for a role player. That'll put us over the top!" Not even JJ Redick or Kyle Korver or Tony Allen (much better "role players" than Ariza) got 8M/yr, and they didn't put their teams over the top. Who did the Heat or Spurs overpay to be a role player? No one. They got a bunch of MLE, BAE and vet min contracts while (in the Spurs' case) they picked up young players with upside to develop that others had passed on. Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills all played "role player" parts on some really good teams. Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole were young guys who played a role, and role players like Battier and Anderson and RayRay didn't make 8M/yr.

So yeah, recent history shows that winning teams have more Noah Vonleh types contributing (rookie contracts, upside, maybe not their first team) than Trevor Ariza types (veteran role players, 8M+/yr, downside of career). If we don't have 2-3 go-to players, it doesn't matter if we have role players or not. If we do, we don't need to waste cash (or the opportunity of getting those go-to players) on expensive role players.
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Dallas. Tyson Chandler.
 
I probably missed this in one of the many threads on the subject, but doesn't Indiana need a center if they trade Hibbert? I know they drafted a big but I wonder if they like Robin Lopez. A sign and trade would come in handy for us. Not dollar for dollar, but it would help us get closer. I imagine they would try to get Vonleh (Indiana) Pat (ND- Indiana ) or Plumlee included. I really want to hold on to both of those bigs.

I guess another question is...... would Rolo like Indiana
 
Denny Crane said:
Dallas. Tyson Chandler.
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Oh lmao!!!! I was thinking he was referring to Wilson Chandler. I was tripping!

That does change everything. I would definitely consider Tyson Chandler and Caroll over Hibbert without a doubt.
 
BonesJones said:
I guess yall forgot about the Spurs paying Diaw $8M, Splitter $11M, and relying on their ROLE PLAYERS for championships! Roy Hibbert is a role player but you guys want his $15M contract so bad!
BTW I've changed it from Ariza to Chandler. Chandler is more gettable, a better player, and cheaper
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No, I didn't forget Splitter getting 9M a year because SAS "matched" us. And all he's done is not only have a better Drtg (not the end-all of D stats, but still) than Ariza every year of his career, but every year but his rookie year has had a better PER than Ariza has EVER had. Maybe the amendment..."starting centers with PERs of 19 in his first 3 years, getting paid in his prime, get a premium" could be added to the list.

Diaw makes 7.5M/yr with his performance bonuses NOW but SAS didn't pay him that to start. He was getting 4.5M a year after he got picked up off of waivers and when the Spurs won a chip and should've won two.

Forget becoming Jermaine. Or Kawhi. Or Draymond Green. Or (choose any number of young players that thrived when given a chance). Maybe all he does is become Patty Mills. Hell, maybe he becomes Rafael Araujo. But the chances of contributing as a role player for a championship-level squad seem, historically, far greater as a player with upside on a rookie contract (even on his 2nd chance) than for a "much-more-than-MLE-past-his-prime veteran." I probably will waste too much time writing this, but can you think of even a Conference Finalist that had an over-30 role player making 8M/yr in the recent past?
 
You may want to consider if the Blazers want to play a lot of small ball that Mutombo-lite isn't the kind of C you want to be paying a big chunk of your cap to. I can easily see the Blazers going with 3 guards much of the time.

I've seen Hibbert plenty in the east and he's got Mutumbo's offensive game. Or lack of it. His defense isn't a difference maker like Mutombo. I don't think a change of scenery is the answer for him.
 
Denny Crane said:
Dallas. Tyson Chandler.
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that's a decent one. Tyson was a 12M hit, and you could conceivably say he was a role player. He also was 28, and they traded Eduardo Najera and Matt Carroll for him (and Damp's expiring contract)---not, say, Ian Mahinmi or Corey Brewer.

I go back to the cowardly "premium for a starting defensive center" caveat. :)
 
Hibbert is not worth 15 mil. He will take a pay cut next year and he knows it. That is why he opted in.
Personally I would like to have him as part of our center platoon package. I think we could use his 7.2" 290 lbs frame against teams like Memphis , Cleveland and wherever Boogie ends up with. Just 24 minutes a game. I know that is a lot of money for a part time player, but next year when he gets a pay cut and the cap goes up, he and Plumlee will be a good tandem. The dude is a space eater and that comes in handy over the course of a year. We need a physical player down low.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Hibbert is not worth 15 mil. He will take a pay cut next year and he knows it. That is why he opted in.
Personally I would like to have him as part of our center platoon package. I think we could use his 7.2" 290 lbs frame against teams like Memphis , Cleveland and wherever Boogie ends up with. Just 24 minutes a game. I know that is a lot of money for a part time player, but next year when he gets a pay cut and the cap goes up, he and Plumlee will be a good tandem. The dude is a space eater and that comes in handy over the course of a year. We need a physical player down low.
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This. With Plumlee and Hibbert at center, we'd be extremely versatile at C. We could go slow and bang, we can go more uptempo and athletic. We could go big or small, since Plumlee is so agile.
 
BonesJones said:
So for all you Hibbert supporters, would you take Wilson Chandler and DeMarre Carroll for $17M and start Plumlee at center or do you want Roy Hibbert that bad?
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If LMA is leaving, I don't want to invest in any of those guys.

My "support" for Hibbert, luke-warm as it is, is contingent on LMA staying and HIS wanting Hibbert. In that narrow set of circumstances, I would be willing to gamble on Hibbert for one year.
 
oldmangrouch said:
If LMA is leaving, I don't want to invest in any of those guys.

My "support" for Hibbert, luke-warm as it is, is contingent on LMA staying and HIS wanting Hibbert. In that narrow set of circumstances, I would be willing to gamble on Hibbert for one year.
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This is what I'm trying to say. The first plan of action is to see if we can build a team Aldridge would want to stay on. If Aldridge wants Hibbert, then Olshey should get Hibbert. The key is to lock Aldridge up long term.
 
there are several "small ball" PF/C's available this summer. Speights/Ed Davis/Bradan Wright/
oldmangrouch said:
If LMA is leaving, I don't want to invest in any of those guys.

My "support" for Hibbert, luke-warm as it is, is contingent on LMA staying and HIS wanting Hibbert. In that narrow set of circumstances, I would be willing to gamble on Hibbert for one year.
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I agree, only way we take Hibbert for a yr is if we get him for pretty much capspace only and LMA wants him. I'd much rather sign a guy like Jordan than Hibbert, or go for a platoon C system with Plumlee and sign a guy like Kosta Koufus
 
The more I think about it the more I'm convinced tyson chandler will be our main target. I know olshey has a relationship with jordan but stotts also has a relationship with chandler and that's a bit more important than a gm relationship. Wouldn't even surprise me if we offer him the max. You think LA would wanna play next to chandler? Me too
 
Scalma said:
The more I think about it the more I'm convinced tyson chandler will be our main target. I know olshey has a relationship with jordan but stotts also has a relationship with chandler and that's a bit more important than a gm relationship. Wouldn't even surprise me if we offer him the max. You think LA would wanna play next to chandler? Me too
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Got to say that would REALLY surprise me. He's way old and Dallas and he have a mutual love affair.
 
He might be older but I still think he's a better player than jordan.
 
denny has indicated Chicago would like to part ways with noah. injury prone, would need to have a limit on minutes bitch attitude on the court.
I think plumlee gives us a tremendous amount of flexability in having someone physically injury prone/fragile at the starting center position.
concerning his bitch attitude and demonstrative antics on the court, at least he is passionate enough to put it all out there and he would be our bitch.
blue collar as hell, 2 years removed from defensive player of the year, high post passing center, rim protector and quarterback for the defense.
an uneven trade with Chicago, providing them cap relief as denny indicated their desire with a TPE and/or ? would be hard for LA to not think about having him having his back and guarding the other opposing center. plenty good enough for small ball, P&R defender. I would applaud his pursuit as opposed to Hibbert and comes at over $2million capspace $'s savings over Roy's contract. would leave about $10 million to persue small fwd, maybe deng?
 
Blazinaway said:
bringin in Chandler reminds me too much of Camby
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Yeah it's like we get him on the downside of his career. And with bigs, that's a big concern to me. Usually they break down the fastest of all positions. If it were a year rental like Hibbert, I would seriously consider it because if he goes down, you can reload the next summer. Signing him to anything more than 2 years seems like a risk to me
 
oldmangrouch said:
If LMA is leaving, I don't want to invest in any of those guys.

My "support" for Hibbert, luke-warm as it is, is contingent on LMA staying and HIS wanting Hibbert. In that narrow set of circumstances, I would be willing to gamble on Hibbert for one year.
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Agree, the only way I would want Hibbert is if LA stays. And that's not the reason I would acquire him. With LA, I like the possibilities of these two defensively and think Hibbert will get this team to next level. Might require a different coach. Will see.
 
For Aldridge to go to SA, I believe they would need to trade Splitter. Would he be worth eating up some cap room for? Does that trade work
 
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