"Net Neutrality" is Obamacare for the Internet

[SlyPokerDog]

[TWEET]531834493922189313[/TWEET]

:MARIS61:

 

[SlyPokerDog]

http://theoatmeal.com/blog/net_neutrality

 

[SlyPokerDog]

http://www.cnet.com/news/president-obama-calls-on-fcc-to-keep-internet-free-and-open/

 

[Denny Crane]

AT&T to pause fiber spending on net neutrality uncertainty

http://fortune.com/2014/11/12/att-to-pause-fiber-spending-on-net-neutrality-uncertainty/

(Reuters) – AT&T Inc on Wednesday raised pressure on the U.S. telecommunications regulator’s work on new “net neutrality” rules, saying it would stop investing in high-speed Internet connections in 100 cities until the Web rules were settled.

The statement from AT&T Chief Executive Officer Randall Stephenson is the first move by an Internet service provider in response to President Barack Obama’s unexpected call on the Federal Communications Commission on Monday to regulate these companies more like public utilities.

AT&T has been spending heavily on acquisitions and the statement came only days after it cut its capital spending estimate for 2015.

The industry and Republican lawmakers have protested Obama’s proposal, saying stricter Internet traffic regulations would stifle growth and investment.

“We can’t go out and invest that kind of money deploying fiber to 100 cities not knowing under what rules those investments will be governed,” Stephenson said at an analyst conference.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: AT&T to pause fiber spending on net neutrality uncertainty

He's causing real damage, folks.

Obama.

Maybe you'd be able to get Blazers games on AT&T fiber, along with 500mbit internet speed.

 

[Cryptkeeper]

Re: AT&T to pause fiber spending on net neutrality uncertainty

I generally don't mind Obama's actions, but this really crosses a line for me for some reason...

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Bump

 

[Natebishop3]

It's frustrating that the Republicans are too old to fully understand what net neutrality is, or why it's important. They just take the fatty paycheck from Comcast and AT&T and start spewing drivel.

 

[Denny Crane]

What's frustrating is that people have no clue how the internet operates from an interconnectivity standpoint and think net neutrality is required. Competition is required.

Especially Obama. He has a supposedly elite group of people at the FCC who know a lot better what they're doing than Obama.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/7/7173511/colorado-towns-vote-for-right-to-build-broadband-internet

"The facts speak for themselves: competition works – when it is allowed to," wrote chairman Tom Wheeler back in June. "Throughout the country where we have seen competitive broadband providers come in to a market, prices have gone down and broadband speeds have gone up. No wonder incumbent broadband providers want to legislate rather than innovate."

AT&T stops running fiber in 100 cities. Obama has singlehandedly stopped competition.

 

[Natebishop3]

What's frustrating is that people have no clue how the internet operates from an interconnectivity standpoint and think net neutrality is required. Competition is required.

Especially Obama. He has a supposedly elite group of people at the FCC who know a lot better what they're doing than Obama.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/7/7173511/colorado-towns-vote-for-right-to-build-broadband-internet

"The facts speak for themselves: competition works – when it is allowed to," wrote chairman Tom Wheeler back in June. "Throughout the country where we have seen competitive broadband providers come in to a market, prices have gone down and broadband speeds have gone up. No wonder incumbent broadband providers want to legislate rather than innovate."

AT&T stops running fiber in 100 cities. Obama has singlehandedly stopped competition.

So wait... you're in favor of allowing companies like Comcast to extort money out of companies like Netflix?

 

[Denny Crane]

So wait... you're in favor of allowing companies like Comcast to extort money out of companies like Netflix?

That's how the internet has always worked. And for the best interests of everyone. The deal between Comcast and Netflix gave Netflix direct access to Comcast's network via a direct connection. In the process, Netflix' service quality went way up. I pay for my connection to the Internet, why shouldn't Netflix?

 

[donkiez]

What's frustrating is that people have no clue how the internet operates from an interconnectivity standpoint and think net neutrality is required. Competition is required.

Especially Obama. He has a supposedly elite group of people at the FCC who know a lot better what they're doing than Obama.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/7/7173511/colorado-towns-vote-for-right-to-build-broadband-internet

"The facts speak for themselves: competition works – when it is allowed to," wrote chairman Tom Wheeler back in June. "Throughout the country where we have seen competitive broadband providers come in to a market, prices have gone down and broadband speeds have gone up. No wonder incumbent broadband providers want to legislate rather than innovate."

AT&T stops running fiber in 100 cities. Obama has singlehandedly stopped competition.

Competition with whom?

 

[Denny Crane]

Competition with whom?

AT&T was running fiber to the home in 100 cities. AT&T competing with Time Warner, Comcast, Verizon, or whoever else is in the area.

I just found out last week that Time Warner is going to upgrade my internet connection from 50mbits/sec to 300mbits/sec at no extra charge (monthly or setup).

 

[donkiez]

AT&T was running fiber to the home in 100 cities. AT&T competing with Time Warner, Comcast, Verizon, or whoever else is in the area.

I just found out last week that Time Warner is going to upgrade my internet connection from 50mbits/sec to 300mbits/sec at no extra charge (monthly or setup).

ahhh so this is more about how it directly effects your internet. Damn you Obama now you stole my internet!

 

[Denny Crane]

ahhh so this is more about how it directly effects your internet. Damn you Obama now you stole my internet!

Like I said, if AT&T runs fiber in Portland, you may get to get Blazers games. Depends on if AT&T is willing to pay Comcast for the rights. Or if people want to switch to stick a thumb in Comcast's eye, they have a choice.

It's not about my Internet, as I'm getting 300mbits next year no matter what AT&T does.

 

[Natebishop3]

AT&T was running fiber to the home in 100 cities. AT&T competing with Time Warner, Comcast, Verizon, or whoever else is in the area.

I just found out last week that Time Warner is going to upgrade my internet connection from 50mbits/sec to 300mbits/sec at no extra charge (monthly or setup).

Things work just fine all over the rest of the world with the old way of doing things. South Korea recently installed a 10g line. Why is it that American ISP's have been so stifled by net neutrality, but other countries have not?

How about, because Comcast and TW and AT&T haven't wanted to pay the money to upgrade their shitty lines? This sounds like a total copout by AT&T. I would like to see proof that they were actually going to do it.

 

[Denny Crane]

Things work just fine all over the rest of the world with the old way of doing things. South Korea recently installed a 10g line. Why is it that American ISP's have been so stifled by net neutrality, but other countries have not?

How about, because Comcast and TW and AT&T haven't wanted to pay the money to upgrade their shitty lines? This sounds like a total copout by AT&T. I would like to see proof that they were actually going to do it.

AT&T reported to the shareholders their plan to spend the money.

They're buying DirecTV so they will have hundreds of channels to offer via super high quality streaming over their fiber network.

I've had AT&T salespeople knock on my door 3 times in the past 2 months saying they have recently run fiber to the street nearby. I told them when they're ready to pull the fiber 100 more feet to my house, let me know.

Proof? Geez.

They have paid the money to upgrade their lines all along. My internet service has grown in speed from 28.8K modem to 50mbits/sec (and soon 300) for a price that's been solidly between $30 and $60 per month for the past 15+ years.

How things have worked is exactly how they should work. It's not a matter of the scheme being outdated or anything. It's driven the building out of the Internet where the traffic demands it. Perfectly.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Odd, seeing as how Obama put in a former cable lobbyist and campaign bundler as head of the FCC.

The fox news types are certainly hard to please

 

[donkiez]

Like I said, if AT&T runs fiber in Portland, you may get to get Blazers games. Depends on if AT&T is willing to pay Comcast for the rights. Or if people want to switch to stick a thumb in Comcast's eye, they have a choice.

It's not about my Internet, as I'm getting 300mbits next year no matter what AT&T does.

Some areas have it better than others but for the most part these companies are monopolies. There is no free market or competition in most of the country. At&t is just trying gain leverage by canceling their upgrades. They will be back on soon, one way or another.

 

[Denny Crane]

Some areas have it better than others but for the most part these companies are Monopolies. There is no free market or competition in most of the country. At&t is just trying gain leverage by canceling their upgrades. They will be back on soon, one way or another.

The issue for competition is the localities pass laws limiting the ability of additional providers to come in and compete. There's where the energy should be focused.

 

[donkiez]

The issue for competition is the localities pass laws limiting the ability of additional providers to come in and compete. There's where the energy should be focused.

Any law attempted to pass, that is not these companies favor, will be a huge up hill battle. Big money can over power grass roots pretty easily.

 

[Denny Crane]

Any law attempted to pass, that is not these companies favor, will be a huge up hill battle. Big money can over power grass roots pretty easily.

But not when it comes to net neutrality laws?

Like I said, if you're going to fight a big fight, the laws restricting competition are the ones to strike down.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

The countries with the 10 fastest internet speeds all use Net Neutrality. It's an embarrassment at how slow our internet is. The USA has the highest rates per MB of internet speed. Companies actually have to install equipment and work at ways to throttle internet speeds. We don't need to install tier pricing for the internet. What to play online games? Only $10/month. Netflix? Just an extra $15/month. That's the direction the internet in the USA is headed.

 

[Denny Crane]

The countries with the 10 fastest internet speeds all use Net Neutrality. It's an embarrassment at how slow our internet is. The USA has the highest rates per MB of internet speed. Companies actually have to install equipment and work at ways to throttle internet speeds. We don't need to install tier pricing for the internet. What to play online games? Only $10/month. Netflix? Just an extra $15/month. That's the direction the internet in the USA is headed.

Netflix charges you $10/month. No ISP charges you extra for it. But you do need to buy a big enough connection to afford the streaming requirements.

That's the actual direction. The perceived direction is horseshit. Sorry.

 

[donkiez]

But not when it comes to net neutrality laws?

Like I said, if you're going to fight a big fight, the laws restricting competition are the ones to strike down.

You keep using the word competition. Basic economics has perfect competition and monopoly on the exact opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

[Denny Crane]

You keep using the word competition. Basic economics has perfect competition and monopoly on the exact opposite ends of the spectrum.

So the government is restricting competition and making monopolies. Monopolies to a degree, anyhow. If you don't like monopolies, then we need to fix the government restrictions on competition.

If you don't like your cable internet provider, you can get 30gig of data for $160 from AT&T wireless. That's a 50% price cut from just a few months ago.

 

[donkiez]

So the government is restricting competition and making monopolies. Monopolies to a degree, anyhow. If you don't like monopolies, then we need to fix the government restrictions on competition.

If you don't like your cable internet provider, you can get 30gig of data for $160 from AT&T wireless. That's a 50% price cut from just a few months ago.

The argument is to make them more like a public utility. A utility is just a government regulated monopoly, which is not ideal but is still better than an unregulated monopoly. The cost of entry in this industry is just to great, it will literally take generations for the markets to self correct overall. Thats assuming these companies dont lobby themselves invincible in the mean time.

The alternative you mention is not feasible for everyone's needs.

 

[Denny Crane]

The argument is to make them more like a public utility. A utility is just a government regulated monopoly, which is not ideal but is still better than an unregulated monopoly. The cost of entry in this industry is just to great, it will literally take generations for the markets to self correct overall. Thats assuming these companies dont lobby themselves invincible in the mean time.

The alternative you mention is not feasible for everyone's needs.

If you regulate ISPs like public utilities, they won't bother to upgrade their networks at all. Where's the incentive?

There's less profit in selling you a 100mbit connection for $30 than selling you a 10mbit one for $30.

Don't like AT&T? Go T-Mobile, they have unlimited data and an LTE network.

It is feasible for anyone. You can browse any site in the world with it, use any internet service, etc.

 

[donkiez]

If you regulate ISPs like public utilities, they won't bother to upgrade their networks at all. Where's the incentive?

There's less profit in selling you a 100mbit connection for $30 than selling you a 10mbit one for $30.

Don't like AT&T? Go T-Mobile, they have unlimited data and an LTE network.

It is feasible for anyone. You can browse any site in the world with it, use any internet service, etc.

Profit and regulation are the incentives. Monopolies still react to demand, they just have a lower consumer surplus. As sly mentioned, many countries already operate in this manner and offer a much better product for cheaper than the US.

 

[Denny Crane]

Profit and regulation are the incentives. Monopolies still react to demand, they just have a lower consumer surplus. As sly mentioned, many countries already operate in this manner and offer a much better product for cheaper than the US.

All that utility monopolies do is go to the PUC and get rate increases. Has the nation's electricity grid infrastructure been massively improved like running fiber in 100 cities would be?

What other countries do doesn't matter much. They're riding on the coattails of our innovation. The statistics he cites would change radically if AT&T finished running fiber in 100 cities and after Time Warner upgrades everyone's internet service, etc.