OT New NFL Kneeling Rule

[Lanny]

The ironic part about this is that Democrats are the party of slavery historically speaking... and in current day they do nothing to help minority communities come up economically... they just pander for votes every for years by calling republicans racist... just getting brainwashed by CNN for votes and not even thinking about what actual policy’s are in their best interest... and my wife and I are both different ethnicity, not white...

You can't argue with history. But I've always believed that it's not what you once believed but rather it's what you believe now.

Edit: If it's what you once believed, I'd be guaranteed to wind up in hell. When I was young, 9,10, 11 years old, I disliked anyone different. We had dirty jokes about African-Americans, Jews, women, Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Latinos and Latinas, we didn't even approve of Catholics and our liturgy swore allegiance to the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Pretty weird, huh. Of course I was a right leaning Republican until I was about 14. Even willingly attended a YAF meeting.

 

[Gronk Brady]

You can't argue with history. But I've always believed that it's not what you once believed but rather it's what you believe now.

Yes, did you read the 2nd half of my post... Democrats do nothing to help minority’s today... the poorest minority communities in the country have been run by Democrats for decades... all they care about is votes

 

[chzbrgr]

The ironic part about this is that Democrats are the party of slavery historically speaking... and in current day they do nothing to help minority communities come up economically... they just pander for votes every for years by calling republicans racist... just getting brainwashed by CNN for votes and not even thinking about what actual policy’s are in their best interest... and my wife and I are both different ethnicity, not white...

This is hands down the most bullshit argument republicans make and you do it all the damn time to justify your bigotry. You take history out of context to justify racist beliefs. In that era the Democrats were the Conservative party. So call it whatever you want y’all conservative Ass hats still on the wrong side of history. Now and in the 1850’s.

 

[Lanny]

Yes, did you read the 2nd half of my post... Democrats do nothing to help minority’s today... the poorest minority communities in the country have been run by Democrats for decades... all they care about is votes

I read it but I know it not to be true so rather than offend you I avoided it. I would normally choose not to reveal this unless I was asked to.

 

[Hoopguru]

You can't argue with history. But I've always believed that it's not what you once believed but rather it's what you believe now.

Edit: If it's what you once believed, I'd be guaranteed to wind up in hell. When I was young, 9,10, 11 years old, I disliked anyone different. We had dirty jokes about African-Americans, Jews, women, Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Latinos and Latinas, we didn't even approve of Catholics and our liturgy swore allegiance to the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Pretty weird, huh. Of course I was a right leaning Republican until I was about 14. Even willingly attended a YAF meeting.

Lanny,
I can relate, thats why I have a hard time lining up with just one way of thinking about things like Politics, Religion, & social issues.
Im a firm believer that when someone or some body proclaim to be the only ones right and nothing else matters, it sickens my stomach.
Im for freedom and a balance in all things and for being respectful of those i don't always totally agree with, but those with piety I struggle with to be perfectly honest.

 

[Hoopguru]

Republicans are certainly not all racists. I only have to point to Senator McCain to disprove that. Senator Mitch McConnell's wife is Asian American and a Republican cabinet member.

However, if you're a racist you're gonna support a Republican. Why? I think it's because some Republicans have unwittingly supported ideas that run counter to racial equality and I know of no Democrats who support any racist issues. A very few Republicans do it on purpose.

I have no doubt whatsoever that dviss and his wonderful son take some uncalled for flak just because of their skin. And yet, it cut they bleed the same as you or me. They love, laugh and do all the things you or I do. And the flak they get is so uncalled for that I feel the same heat directed toward me, albeit indirectly.

My family is from the deep deep South and I've seen it. I've seen the sign on a drinking fountain that said white only and the one that said colored only (which I drank from). I've seen the 'N' word thrown around very freely in St. Louis (Ferguson, if you must know, yep I worked on the street Michael Brown was killed on). African-Americans always wind up at the bottom and that's just wrong and I will never stop fighting this injustice.

My father told me when I was in high school that because I am 1/16 American Indian I could not attend a public school in S. Carolina. This kind of opened my eyes. I also learned from a co-worker at Tektronix that African-Americans were barred by law from spending the night in a hotel in Beaverton, Oregon. The co-worker was the ex president of the John Birch Society who had reformed.

So, open your eyes. Injustice is all around us and it's time for us to go to work so others can work, pay taxes and make my life a little easier as a result.

Lanny, growing up in North Portland in the 50's, 60's there were more racist union members that were dems, than any other party that I can recall back then. I was sent to a Babtise church on Lombard near the old Crest theater, and never witnessed much racism there. It was everywhere around me though as I was raised by a staunch straight ticket family, all union members and very racist.
So when I now hear people say one party is more racist than another, they better look for the blank in their own whatever...

 

[Hoopguru]

Lanny, growing up in North Portland in the 50's, 60's there were more racist union members that were dems, than any other party that I can recall back then. I was sent to a Babtise church on Lombard near the old Crest theater, and never witnessed much racism there. It was everywhere around me though as I was raised by a staunch straight ticket family, all union members and very racist.
So when I now hear people say one party is more racist than another, they better look for the blank in their own whatever...

straight ticket democrat family. My grandfather would roll over on his grave if he knew that i didn't tow the line and be a straight ticket democrat.

 

[BBert]

Honestly, kneeling is a sign of respect in many situations. Injured player. Praying. Asking for your true love's hand in marriage. I don't see the problem. If a certain someone who shall remain nameless hadn't turned this into a racist political football to purposely divide the country, it wouldn't be a big deal at all.

I'll just say again: I believe that kneeling was the most respectful thing those players could have done during the anthem to draw attention to the social injustice they were speaking about. There were many other actions they could have taken, but they chose to remain respectful and patriotic. It makes me sick that political decadence and racism was and is still being used to brainwash millions into believing that a respectfully delivered message about freedom and inequality was instead a protest against the United States, the flag, the anthem, mom, apple pie, and any other hot button that a few corrupt narcissistic politicians can dream up.

OK, I'm done. Promise.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

My nephew was on the CC team that kneeled all last season. I'm proud of him for taking a stand.

No pun intended

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[blue9]

People would probably be more open to listen if you didn’t stereotype and blame a whole population... it’s doing the same thing that you hate being done to your culture... always insulting republicans and saying they are all white and racist will never bring people to the table...

So how do you propose we change the minds of racist people? Do you think it's possible on a large scale?

 

[Lanny]

Lanny,
I can relate, thats why I have a hard time lining up with just one way of thinking about things like Politics, Religion, & social issues.
Im a firm believer that when someone or some body proclaim to be the only ones right and nothing else matters, it sickens my stomach.
Im for freedom and a balance in all things and for being respectful of those i don't always totally agree with, but those with piety I struggle with to be perfectly honest.

Sorry to sicken your stomach but I'm an unabashed Christian. This means being nice to others. So, I really don't mean to offend even if I do. Any offense is not consciously intended.

My problem is dealing with trolls which we do not seem to have in here. In this case I would be referring to Laker Lanny whom you undoubtedly have never heard of and JetBlack who used to infest O-Live's Blazer forum quite a while ago. These were almost professional trolls whom I had trouble dealing with.

If I'm wearing my religion on my sleeve, well, I shouldn't. I shouldn't wear my religion on my sleeve 'cause it can hurt my cause rather than help it. I don't want to be counter productive. This being said, I can't hide who I am and I have every right to express my opinion as long as I don't insist on others seeing it my way. Of course, there are basic tenants that anyone would expect of another but nothing special or out of the ordinary.

 

[Lanny]

I'll just say again: I believe that kneeling was the most respectful thing those players could have done during the anthem to draw attention to the social injustice they were speaking about. There were many other actions they could have taken, but they chose to remain respectful and patriotic. It makes me sick that political decadence and racism was and is still being used to brainwash millions into believing that a respectfully delivered message about freedom and inequality was rather a protest against the United States, the flag, the anthem, mom, apple pie, and any other hot button that a few corrupt narcissistic politicians can dream up.

OK, I'm done. Promise.

Well said.

 

[blue9]

Republicans are certainly not all racists. I only have to point to Senator McCain to disprove that. Senator Mitch McConnell's wife is Asian American and a Republican cabinet member.

However, if you're a racist you're gonna support a Republican.

Bingo. Not all coins are quarters, but all quarters are coins.

 

[Lanny]

So how do you propose we change the minds of racist people? Do you think it's possible on a large scale?

We've been doing it since the end of the 50s. I remember when the future governor of Georgia owned a restaurant and a next door hardware store. When some African-Americans threatened to enter his restaurant to order a sit down meal when they had previously been restricted to getting a sack meal handed to them at the back door, this future governor told his white patrons to go next door pick up a pick ax handle made out of hardwood and use it on them thar 'N'ers who tried to enter. Later that year he won the office of governor in Georgia. This all took place in Atlanta, my birthplace. I know a thing or two about that struggle.

I'd like to add my father's stories about Alabama, his birth place, and all the hangings of uppity 'N'ers there.

In the 60s and even into the 70s you could not find a white jury that would convict a white man for an atrocity of an African-American, even a young one in the deep South.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Bingo. Not all coins are quarters, but all quarters are coins.

Even though I lean right in a lot of the ways I think, I have a hard time supporting any politician no matter the side they claim to represent.
I don't know how anyone can look at most of our politicians and think they are working to help us out, no matter our skin color, or world-views. They might be working for our votes so they can continue to make laws to make them and their buddies money, but they don't seem to want or care if I succeed, if my kids succeed, if my neighbors, succeed.
They're in it for themselves. Anyways this isn't all that relevant to the this discussion. I just hope that one day all of us can feel safe in our skin, we can feel like were judged based on the merits of our actions rather than how we look on the outside.
If that means I or my kids lose a job or a promotion or whatever because someone of color worked harder than we did then GOOD they deserved it.
In terms of kneeling during a song, if that's what it takes to get people to discuss our differences, to see the issues we have in our police force then GOOD, we need to look at it. Still kind of annoys me that somehow this became about the military, and kneeling during the anthem being anti-american, was never about that.

 

[dviss1]

The ironic part about this is that Democrats are the party of slavery historically speaking...

Just stop... Stop this line of bullshit.

Everybody knows those Dixiecrats became Republican after civil rights passed.

So please stop parroting some talking point somebody lied to you about and do some research.

 

[Five Second Violation]

Bingo. Not all coins are quarters, but all quarters are coins.

Bullshit. Many of the most racist people I've seen in the 21st century are liberal SJW types. The far left just refuses to acknowledge that. Racism is a sickness of the mind that goes hand in hand with extremist political opinions, both left and right. Has nothing to do with which party you support. There are hundreds of thousands of idiotic bigoted hacks on both sides and that's part of why we are failing as a country.

 

[Chris Craig]

"You have to stand proudly for the National Anthem. You shouldn't be playing, you shouldn't be there. Maybe they shouldn't be in the country...the NFL owners did the right thing" -President @realDonaldTrump

 

[blue9]

Bullshit. Many of the most racist people I've seen in the 21st century are liberal SJW types.

Sorry, but "racist" and "social justice" are mutually exclusive. I have no doubt there are many militant, angry, hateful, and even bigoted liberals. And certainly many liberals still struggle to overcome the institutional racism they've been indoctrinated with since birth. But there's a world of difference between them and the actively racist conservatives who don't want to make any attempt to change, who want to silence people of color, and institute very UN-AMERICAN laws, rules, and social mores in order to preserve their ill-claimed social dominance.

 

[dviss1]

Sorry, but "racist" and "social justice" are mutually exclusive. I have no doubt there are many militant, angry, hateful, and even bigoted liberals. And certainly many liberals still struggle to overcome the institutional racism they've been indoctrinated with since birth. But there's a world of difference between them and the actively racist conservatives who don't want to make any attempt to change, who want to silence people of color, and institute very UN-AMERICAN laws, rules, and social mores in order to preserve their ill-claimed social dominance.

You know you hate Aminu cuz he's black!!!

No JK.

EPIC post.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Couldn't find a better reason to kneel.

http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/at...wn-to-sue-milwaukee-police-department.331190/

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[Five Second Violation]

Sorry, but "racist" and "social justice" are mutually exclusive. I have no doubt there are many militant, angry, hateful, and even bigoted liberals. And certainly many liberals still struggle to overcome the institutional racism they've been indoctrinated with since birth. But there's a world of difference between them and the actively racist conservatives who don't want to make any attempt to change, who want to silence people of color, and institute very UN-AMERICAN laws, rules, and social mores in order to preserve their ill-claimed social dominance.

And that's why they're failing and we have Trump in the White House right now, because there really isn't a difference at all and because those types fail to see that two wrongs don't make a right. They have the same fundamental errors in their logic as the stereotypical "peckerwood" Republicans. Identity politics are a sham no matter who is being catered to/villified. It's sad that so many "progressive" people fail to understand that.

 

[The Professional Fan]

People seem to forget that Kaepernick was originally sitting during the Anthem. Not kneeling. It was after a one on one conversation with ex Green Beret and NFL long snapper, Nate Boyers, that Kaepernick started kneeling instead of sitting. Nate suggested it was a more respectful gesture. Kaepernick took his advice. What a dick.

 

[BBert]

Epic

 

[PCmor7]

"You have to stand proudly for the National Anthem. You shouldn't be playing, you shouldn't be there. Maybe they shouldn't be in the country...the NFL owners did the right thing" -President @realDonaldTrump

Yeah, if you want freedom of speech and freedom of expression, go somewhere where you really can have it ... we don't want you in the land of the free ...

Idiocracy ...

 

[blue9]

And that's why they're failing and we have Trump in the White House right now, because there really isn't a difference at all and because those types fail to see that two wrongs don't make a right. They have the same fundamental errors in their logic as the stereotypical "peckerwood" Republicans. Identity politics are a sham no matter who is being catered to/villified. It's sad that so many "progressive" people fail to understand that.

First off, identity politics are NOT a sham or a problem - it's all about equal rights for everyone.
With that said, please do not take my disparaging remarks of republicans as an endorsement of democrats. While I do believe they are the lesser of two evils, I do not find them to be good or useful politicians (with few exceptions...as there are with republicans). I had hoped that the election of Trump was the beginning of the dismantling of our two-party system. But with the way republicans have fallen into lock-step with him, I no longer have much hope that anything is going to change.

 

[PCmor7]

And that's why they're failing and we have Trump in the White House right now, because there really isn't a difference at all and because those types fail to see that two wrongs don't make a right. They have the same fundamental errors in their logic as the stereotypical "peckerwood" Republicans. Identity politics are a sham no matter who is being catered to/villified. It's sad that so many "progressive" people fail to understand that.

But isn't the problem oppression and those being in a position to oppress while others are just fighting tooth and nail to get a fair deal? I mean, to me, this just sounds like another variation of the argument that the little guy is keeping the man down.

Where I will kind of agree with you is this: Minority groups need to better recognize and express that when one of them is oppressed, all of us are oppressed. Every single one of us probably identified with a group that is or could be targeted simply for its characteristics regardless of its character. Blacks need to stand up for women's rights. Muslims need to identify with those being judged simply on their age. Asians need to support LGBT causes and Americans with physical, mental or emotional disadvantages. And vice versa, etc.

That's how you stop bigotry and prejudice, IMO. You create a bigger tent where ALL of these groups realize they have a common cause. Harder to divide and conquer or to obfuscate when you have more voices to keep the argument on topic.

 

[Five Second Violation]

But isn't the problem oppression and those being in a position to oppress while others are just fighting tooth and nail to get a fair deal? I mean, to me, this just sounds like another variation of the argument that the little guy is keeping the man down.

Where I will kind of agree with you is this: Minority groups need to better recognize and express that when one of them is oppressed, all of us are oppressed. Every single one of us probably identified with a group that is or could be targeted simply for its characteristics regardless of its character. Blacks need to stand up for women's rights. Muslims need to identify with those being judged simply on their age. Asians need to support LGBT causes and Americans with physical, mental or emotional disadvantages. And vice versa, etc.

That's how you stop bigotry and prejudice, IMO. You create a bigger tent where ALL of these groups realize they have a common cause. Harder to divide and conquer or to obfuscate when you have more voices to keep the argument on topic.

In my experience, identity politics in this day and age generally seek to divide and be as ostentatious as possible while serving more as partisan dog whistles for election campaigns than anything else. It's an easy talking point for a politician looking to pander for votes, be it Democrats with inner city blacks or Republicans with rural whites. And once they're in office it quickly goes back out the window. A vast majority of people in this country share the same problems, namely economical, and it's just a shame that some seek to drive a wedge further between them for what are usually purely superficial BS reasons.

As far as uprooting oppression, I'm all for identifying key issues and working to make tangible changes towards improving them i.e. with something legislative. The problem I see today is that many of the fervently political people on both sides don't seem remotely interested in doing that. It's pretty easy to just lament something that you don't like. It's much more difficult to come up with an an answer or two. People would rather complain and reduce everything with these complex issues to false dichotomies (often minority versus white or rich versus poor) than use their brains and actually point to tangible solutions. It's sad that in the information age, actual research on issues seems to be derided more than ever while reactionarism is somehow lauded. It's a big part of why the current bozo-in-chief got to be where he is.