Non-Davis Pelican players available

[hoopsjock]

better would be Turner + Baldwin + 1st for Mirotic + Wesley Johnson

Pels get to unite good friends Jrue and Turner. Blazers audition Mirotic and possible clear major cap next year

I never knew about Holiday and Turners relationship. In every scenario I just had us trading Meyers. But keeping their franchise guy happy might be worth the extra $7M or whatever.

I know this is dumb because our GM doesn't seem to want to be creative enough to pull something like this off BUT every time there is a trade like this where we get a player we wouldn't want (in this case Wesley Johnson) and knowing that we can't combine his salary with others, I immediately start thinking of what team we could ship him to as part of this trade.

Since we'd be getting a PF, combining Aminu with Wesley Johnson gets us up to $13.1 Million in expiring contracts (plus we could throw in smaller contracts like Stauaskas). So then I start thinking about all the possibilities that could bring if we added a 3rd team.

 

[Scalma]

I know this is dumb because our GM doesn't seem to want to be creative enough to pull something like this off BUT every time there is a trade like this where we get a player we wouldn't want (in this case Wesley Johnson) and knowing that we can't combine his salary with others, I immediately start thinking of what team we could ship him to as part of this trade.

Since we'd be getting a PF, combining Aminu with Wesley Johnson gets us up to $13.1 Million in expiring contracts (plus we could throw in smaller contracts like Stauaskas). So then I start thinking about all the possibilities that could bring if we added a 3rd team.

Neil reading this

 

[hoopsjock]

Neil reading this

View attachment 24576

Nope, not confused enough.

 

[Scalma]

Nope, not confused enough.

 

[hoopsjock]

View attachment 24577

"Wait, is hoopsjock trying to say that we can actually make more than one trade before the deadline?"

 

[B-Roy]

"Wait, is hoopsjock trying to say that we can actually make more than one trade before the deadline?"

Under your scenario it would have to be one trade. Wesley Johnson cannot be packaged in a trade if he was just traded to us.

 

[illmatic99]

I never knew about Holiday and Turners relationship. In every scenario I just had us trading Meyers. But keeping their franchise guy happy might be worth the extra $7M or whatever.

Evan is quite close with those Philly guys. He said on his pod last week that Iggy made him a best man in his wedding and even named his daughter after him. No joke

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Trust me, I'm on the Turner would be better off the team train too (I may have even started it) but if we have to take back Hill it's not worth giving up a 1st. Mirotic is a free agent this summer so if he left and we lost our pick and had to take on Hill's contract that really doesn't seem like a no-brainer to me.

I believe it also saves 17 MIL off next years cap numbers. I don't see a reason Mirotic would leave unless we didn't even offer him.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

"Wait, is hoopsjock trying to say that we can actually make more than one trade before the deadline?"

Neil is displeased (and baffled) by this exchange.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I know this is dumb because our GM doesn't seem to want to be creative enough to pull something like this off BUT every time there is a trade like this where we get a player we wouldn't want (in this case Wesley Johnson) and knowing that we can't combine his salary with others, I immediately start thinking of what team we could ship him to as part of this trade.

Could always try to revisit the Porter thing...

 

[oldmangrouch]

Why do you keep answering the question with things that are irrelevant? It is a simple yes or no answer. By your avoidance of answering the question should I "assume" you prefer the shooters to be covered then. I actually like it when someone is freely open.

You don't have to assume anything. I said it flat out - I don't want our best players double teamed so Aminu can get open shots.

Serious question: what do you mean by "freely open?" My definition of that term is when the defender *intentionally* leaves his man to trap/double team somebody else. If your definition includes Aminu losing his man, or running him into a pick, etc - that does change the conversation.

And BTW - this is not a yes-or-no question. Just because a player is open doesn't mean he is in a position for a *good* shot. Aminu is not only less consistent than some of his team-mates, he is also less versatile. At the very least, you have to modify your statement to something like "freely open in his comfort zone."

 

[hoopsjock]

Under your scenario it would have to be one trade. Wesley Johnson cannot be packaged in a trade if he was just traded to us.

I know, my quote was meant to reflect how confused Neil was.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Trust me, I'm on the Turner would be better off the team train too (I may have even started it) but if we have to take back Hill it's not worth giving up a 1st. Mirotic is a free agent this summer so if he left and we lost our pick and had to take on Hill's contract that really doesn't seem like a no-brainer to me.

I would take that risk. I think for the most part Euros like Portland and having Nurk on the team could help us resign him. We have enough young players with Zach, Jake, Simons and Trent. I value our draft picks, but Mirotic would gives us a true stretch 4 that I think we need.

 

[hoopsjock]

Neil is displeased (and baffled) by this exchange.

View attachment 24579

"Look, you have to bifurcate my job requirements and making actual trades."

 

[hoopsjock]

I believe it also saves 17 MIL off next years cap numbers. I don't see a reason Mirotic would leave unless we didn't even offer him.

I would take that risk. I think for the most part Euros like Portland and having Nurk on the team could help us resign him. We have enough young players with Zach, Jake, Simons and Trent. I value our draft picks, but Mirotic would gives us a true stretch 4 that I think we need.

Yeah, If Mirotic walks we'd save $17 million. If he stays how much would he cost and how much are we willing to pay him? Depending on what the number is and if we keep Aminu, Layman, and Curry that could send us up into the tax pretty quickly.

Edit: I just don't like wasting a roster spot on a complete waste like Hill would be. Taking his contract on should make it so we don't have to include our pick.

 

[illmatic99]

I was reading a Ringer article on NBA trade trees and they had this gem of an article referencing one of Neil's most prominent trades at the deadline.
http://www.espn.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6153550

"The drill is, as always, is 'Is the player you're getting back more valuable than the potential you could get in the draft?'" said Clippers general manager Neil Olshey. "Our analysis at this point in February is that it was more valuable to get a 28-year-old All-Star point guard that we have for the next few years, cap flexibility to make sure we take care of business and re-sign DeAndre Jordan and have flexibility to take care of Eric Gordon as well, as opposed to speculating on another kid that's 19 years old with one year of college experience.

"And I'm not that high on the draft to begin with this year."

"Look, Blake really likes Baron," Olshey said Thursday. "But Blake also knows that we're in it with him and Eric for the long haul and he knows we've gotta do what's right for the organization and he trusts both [coach] Vinny [Del Negro] and myself that we're gonna put the right pieces around him. I can tell you that the first thought process at any point when we start to do a deal is, 'How is this going to affect Blake and Eric?'

He traded an unprotected lottery pick and Baron Davis for all star Mo Williams. That lottery pick became Kyrie Irving

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Yeah, If Mirotic walks we'd save $17 million. If he stays how much would he cost and how much are we willing to pay him? Depending on what the number is and if we keep Aminu, Layman, and Curry that could send us up into the tax pretty quickly.

Edit: I just don't like wasting a roster spot on a complete waste like Hill would be. Taking his contract on should make it so we don't have to include our pick.

First, I am totally against using a 1st round pick to dump Turner or Leonard's contract. This does not feel that way to me at all though.

We are paying the 1st to get Mirotic. But even if you don't agree with that we are not just getting rid of Turner or Leonard. We are getting rid of both!

Second, the Pels are taking on a much worse contract (Turner) than we are (Solomon). Third, I would deal Aminu or at the very least not bring him back next year if we are resigning Mirotic. I don't see the need.

For Mirotic, he doesn't seem like a guy who is going to break the bank this summer imo. I would peg his contract to average 12 to 14 MIL a year.

 

[hoopsjock]

First, I am totally against using a 1st round pick to dump Turner or Leonard's contract. This does not feel that way to me at all though.

We are paying the 1st to get Mirotic. But even if you don't agree with that we are not just getting rid of Turner or Leonard. We are getting rid of both!

Second, the Pels are taking on a much worse contract (Turner) than we are (Solomon). Third, I would deal Aminu or at the very least not bring him back next year if we are resigning Mirotic. I don't see the need.

For Mirotic, he doesn't seem like a guy who is going to break the bank this summer imo. I would peg his contract to average 12 to 14 MIL a year.

I guess I see Mirotic the same way I saw him last year. He's a fine player but he's not going to take us from the 1st round to a WCF appearance. Granted he was probably the difference for the Pelicans getting to the 2nd round. With a Dame and CJ back court I just worry about adding offensive only players to our starting lineup and the effect it would have on our defense. We'd lose some of the ability we currently have to cover their deficiencies. If this deal combined with another deal had an extra benefit of getting us under the tax line then maybe. I value picks a little higher than most and have only recently started to come down from that stance but having Mirotic pretty much locks our roster in for next season if we kept him whereas making a different deal that opens up the full-MLE combined with our pick always having a super tiny chance to be a home run is a bit of a more fun mystery box. Could we steal a Mirotic for the full-MLE and keep our pick? Probably not but there are other guys like Bobby Portis, Morris twins, or Thad Young that we could maybe snag for less.

I'm probably undervaluing Mirotic a little I just don't like the idea of bringing back Hill if it's not AD coming back.

 

[JDC]

I guess I see Mirotic the same way I saw him last year. He's a fine player but he's not going to take us from the 1st round to a WCF appearance. Granted he was probably the difference for the Pelicans getting to the 2nd round. With a Dame and CJ back court I just worry about adding offensive only players to our starting lineup and the effect it would have on our defense. We'd lose some of the ability we currently have to cover their deficiencies. If this deal combined with another deal had an extra benefit of getting us under the tax line then maybe. I value picks a little higher than most and have only recently started to come down from that stance but having Mirotic pretty much locks our roster in for next season if we kept him whereas making a different deal that opens up the full-MLE combined with our pick always having a super tiny chance to be a home run is a bit of a more fun mystery box. Could we steal a Mirotic for the full-MLE and keep our pick? Probably not but there are other guys like Bobby Portis, Morris twins, or Thad Young that we could maybe snag for less.

I'm probably undervaluing Mirotic a little I just don't like the idea of bringing back Hill if it's not AD coming back.

Mirotic is not an offense only player.

He's safely above average for a PF. Tough, smart and pretty agile for his size.

 

[hoopsjock]

Mirotic is not an offense only player.

He's safely above average for a PF. Tough, smart and pretty agile for his size.

His perimeter defense is much like Nurk's defense where he is deceptively quick on his feet but that doesn't mean he's "safely above average". I don't like his post defense at all and he offers little in terms of rim protection. The numbers match the eye test there.

I also forgot to mention that he barely ever passes. He's got roughly the same AST% as Aminu which is really bad. So while he can create his own shot a lot better than Aminu can, he's also a ball stopper. For those that harp on ball movement being a key to our success it's a little strange to also think that adding another player that thwarts ball movement is a good idea.

 

[Scalma]

His perimeter defense is much like Nurk's defense where he is deceptively quick on his feet but that doesn't mean he's "safely above average". I don't like his post defense at all and he offers little in terms of rim protection. The numbers match the eye test there.

I also forgot to mention that he barely ever passes. He's got roughly the same AST% as Aminu which is really bad. So while he can create his own shot a lot better than Aminu can, he's also a ball stopper. For those that harp on ball movement being a key to our success it's a little strange to also think that adding another player that thwarts ball movement is a good idea.

The majority of his looks are catch and shoot. 70% of his shots involve 0 dribbles. But he will make the extra pass if it’s there, he’s not a selfish player. Our bench needs a go to scorer. The closing unit could also use someone reliable to take the pressure off Dame and CJ offensively and space the court. Mirotic is perfect for all those things.

 

[TBpup]

His perimeter defense is much like Nurk's defense where he is deceptively quick on his feet but that doesn't mean he's "safely above average". I don't like his post defense at all and he offers little in terms of rim protection. The numbers match the eye test there.

I also forgot to mention that he barely ever passes. He's got roughly the same AST% as Aminu which is really bad. So while he can create his own shot a lot better than Aminu can, he's also a ball stopper. For those that harp on ball movement being a key to our success it's a little strange to also think that adding another player that thwarts ball movement is a good idea.

He may not have a great assist ration but I don't really consider him a 'ball-stopper' either because he tends to shoot fairly quickly and doesn't dribble much at all. So either he shoots it or moves it along. Comparing how long he has the ball to someone like CJ is a stark contrast.

 

[hoopsjock]

The majority of his looks are catch and shoot. 70% of his shots involve 0 dribbles. But he will make the extra pass if it’s there, he’s not a selfish player. Our bench needs a go to scorer. The closing unit could also use someone reliable to take the pressure off Dame and CJ offensively and space the court. Mirotic is perfect for all those things.

I just want to be clear. Yes, he is really good for some things including the ones you mentioned but they are at the expense of other areas. That trade off may be worth it but he's not a "perfect" player, not even close.

 

[Scalma]

I just want to be clear. Yes, he is really good for some things including the ones you mentioned but they are at the expense of other areas. That trade off may be worth it but he's not a "perfect" player, not even close.

Good thing we’re not trading a perfect player in return then huh?

 

[hoopsjock]

He may not have a great assist ration but I don't really consider him a 'ball-stopper' either because he tends to shoot fairly quickly and doesn't dribble much at all. So either he shoots it or moves it along. Comparing how long he has the ball to someone like CJ is a stark contrast.

Without looking it up I would guess that he and Aminu dribble about the same. Aminu doesn't pass much either.

 

[hoopsjock]

Good thing we’re not trading a perfect player in return then huh?

Of course not! I do like the Turner, a small contract (preferably Swanigan), and a 1st for Mirotic and Wesley Johnson idea by @wizenheimer. My responses have been to both giving up a pick and taking on Solomon Hill who is completely worthless. Even better if Mirotic signed a similar deal to the one we gave Nurk last summer.

 

[CupWizier]

You don't have to assume anything. I said it flat out - I don't want our best players double teamed so Aminu can get open shots.

Serious question: what do you mean by "freely open?" My definition of that term is when the defender *intentionally* leaves his man to trap/double team somebody else. If your definition includes Aminu losing his man, or running him into a pick, etc - that does change the conversation.

And BTW - this is not a yes-or-no question. Just because a player is open doesn't mean he is in a position for a *good* shot. Aminu is not only less consistent than some of his team-mates, he is also less versatile. At the very least, you have to modify your statement to something like "freely open in his comfort zone."

This discussion appears to be heading (one might say it already has) to a dead end so i will bow out.

 

[JDC]

His perimeter defense is much like Nurk's defense where he is deceptively quick on his feet but that doesn't mean he's "safely above average". I don't like his post defense at all and he offers little in terms of rim protection. The numbers match the eye test there.

I also forgot to mention that he barely ever passes. He's got roughly the same AST% as Aminu which is really bad. So while he can create his own shot a lot better than Aminu can, he's also a ball stopper. For those that harp on ball movement being a key to our success it's a little strange to also think that adding another player that thwarts ball movement is a good idea.

What numbers are you referring to?

Because every impact measure I trust has him ranking anywhere from 20th-30th for all PF's over the last 3 years.

 

[JDC]

I just want to be clear. Yes, he is really good for some things including the ones you mentioned but they are at the expense of other areas. That trade off may be worth it but he's not a "perfect" player, not even close.

Is anyone saying that?

 

[hoopsjock]

What numbers are you referring to?

Because every impact measure I trust has him ranking anywhere from 20th-30th for all PF's over the last 3 years.

Well I guess we just have a different definition of "above average". There are 30 teams so even if I expanded it out to the top 40 PF's he'd be right in the middle to slightly below average in those categories for a starting PF or a 6th or 7th man type. I don't see that as being safely above average.