Norm Powell Contract

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illmatic99 said:
Ya, the worry is that they can sign Norm outright, but they would still need to clear some space to do so. There was talk yesterday of them trying to move Sato/Young to open room for Ball. From my twitter stalking and all the tea leaves/rumors, I think Ball to CHI is a done deal, but you never know for sure.

Powell is a better player than Young in a vacuum, but is throttled next to CJ. And we don't seem to be in the mindset of trading CJ anytime soon. I think from the team-building perspective, having a play making 4 who can potentially switch on defense 3-5 is better than our three guard lineup.
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Well Hollinger just mentioned they can get to the 20M number by stretching Aminu. Like with Detroit, that would give them the chance to give Powell an 4/86 deal.

On Thad, year after year we see players that can't shoot get played off the floor or played to the detriment of their teams in the playoffs. Even super talented "stars" like Simmons and Westbrook. A Thad/Nurk front court forces one of them to the bench in critical games and that's just not something I think you should do with 2 of your top 5 players. But I guess it doesn't matter too much, both of those variations (Same starting 5 or Same 4 + Thad) are first round exits next year, IMO. So whatever.
 
B-Roy said:
But either way, even though I like Thad, Powell is better. Thad is 33 and a non shooter. We would be getting significantly worse in that deal, IMO.
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Prior to last year, Thad averaged 35% from 3 over the prior 4 seasons. I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to return to that (depending on what Chauncey's offense involves).
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Prior to last year, Thad averaged 35% from 3 over the prior 4 seasons. I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to return to that (depending on what Chauncey's offense involves).
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on almost 4 attempts a game too, so it can be done. His career outside shooting indicate he would be cause spacing issues, but i still remember a few games I watched from him last season when he was dicing up teams on the P&R.

It's not unlike totally GS playing Iggy and Draymond as "non-shooters." Young's shooting numbers are fairly similar to Iggys (33% at 2.7 attempts a game).
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Prior to last year, Thad averaged 35% from 3 over the prior 4 seasons. I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to return to that (depending on what Chauncey's offense involves).
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He averages 1.5 attempts per game on his career. It’s the same as calling Valanciunas a floor spacer.
 
B-Roy said:
Well Hollinger just mentioned they can get to the 20M number by stretching Aminu. Like with Detroit, that would give them the chance to give Powell an 4/86 deal.

On Thad, year after year we see players that can't shoot get played off the floor or played to the detriment of their teams in the playoffs. Even super talented "stars" like Simmons and Westbrook. A Thad/Nurk front court forces one of them to the bench in critical games and that's just not something I think you should do with 2 of your top 5 players. But I guess it doesn't matter too much, both of those variations (Same starting 5 or Same 4 + Thad) are first round exits next year, IMO. So whatever.
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I don't really think so. I'm coming from the mindset of not wanting to lose Powell for nothing, but want to desperately break up the CJ-Powell 2-3 lineup. No matter what everyone (mainly Olshey) likes to spout about Norm's winsgspan, I do not want him playing on the wing for 30+ mpg and I'm increasingly getting the feeling that the three guard lineup is here to stay.
 
illmatic99 said:
on almost 4 attempts a game too, so it can be done. His career outside shooting indicate he would be cause spacing issues, but i still remember a few games I watched from him last season when he was dicing up teams on the P&R.


It's not unlike totally GS playing Iggy and Draymond as "non-shooters." Young's shooting numbers are fairly similar to Iggys (33% at 2.7 attempts a game).
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Iggy and Draymond were not non-shooters during their championship years. Teams always guarded Iggy, and Draymond shot 38% one year. They also clearly struggled a bit once Draymonds shooting started declining. Also they had the two best shooters in NBA history + Kevin Durant. How is this comparable???
 
illmatic99 said:
I don't really think so. I'm coming from the mindset of not wanting to lose Powell for nothing, but want to desperately break up the CJ-Powell 2-3 lineup. No matter what everyone (mainly Olshey) likes to spout about Norm's winsgspan, I do not want him playing on the wing for 30+ mpg and I'm increasingly getting the feeling that the three guard lineup is here to stay.
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I don’t either, but I’d rather sign Norm and see if we can parley CJ during the season. I’d rather do that than be married to the Dame-CJ pairing. If you can get an actual star for Norm, sure, but 33 year old Thad Young isn’t it.
 
B-Roy said:
Iggy and Draymond were not non-shooters during their championship years. Teams always guarded Iggy, and Draymond shot 38% one year. They also clearly struggled a bit once Draymonds shooting started declining. Also they had the two best shooters in NBA history + Kevin Durant. How is this comparable???
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I dunno man, trying to talk myself into it more than anything. I agreed in my post that spacing could be an issue. I'm just looking at what we can do with Norm's contract. Don't really want him back if CJ is still here, but don't really want to lose him either :/
 
illmatic99 said:
I dunno man, trying to talk myself into it more than anything. I agreed in my post that spacing could be an issue. I'm just looking at what we can do with Norm's contract. Don't really want him back if CJ is still here, but don't really want to lose him either :/
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It just sounds like talking yourself into best case scenario, like when CJ had that extended hot streak in the beginning of the season. Everyone knew it was unsustainable, but as fans we want to believe…
 
B-Roy said:
It just sounds like talking yourself into best case scenario, like when CJ had that extended hot streak in the beginning of the season. Everyone knew it was unsustainable, but as fans we want to believe…
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the injury killed his momentum, I truly think he woulda been an all star this year if he were healthy.

but his playoffs was a disaster.
 
Fwiw:

CJ in the reg season: 23-5-4 on 58% TS, 21 PER
Booker in the reg season: 26-4-4 on 59% TS, 19 PER

We just need Daryl Morey to realize this. :)
 
B-Roy said:
Well Hollinger just mentioned they can get to the 20M number by stretching Aminu. Like with Detroit, that would give them the chance to give Powell an 4/86 deal.

On Thad, year after year we see players that can't shoot get played off the floor or played to the detriment of their teams in the playoffs. Even super talented "stars" like Simmons and Westbrook. A Thad/Nurk front court forces one of them to the bench in critical games and that's just not something I think you should do with 2 of your top 5 players. But I guess it doesn't matter too much, both of those variations (Same starting 5 or Same 4 + Thad) are first round exits next year, IMO. So whatever.
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They aren't even in the game...
Olshey already has him locked up for 4/110m (or 3/83m) deal.
 
tester551 said:
They aren't even in the game...
Olshey already has him locked up for 4/110m (or 3/83m) deal.
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those numbers are insane. would make him damn hard to trade. I don't think it's that high. Somewhere in the ballpark of 3/70
 
I think we're all going to be unpleasantly surprised at how much we're throwing at Norm. Remember Evan Turner?
 
B-Roy said:
It just sounds like talking yourself into best case scenario, like when CJ had that extended hot streak in the beginning of the season. Everyone knew it was unsustainable, but as fans we want to believe…
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But we will never know because of that injury. CJ wasn't the same after coming back, especially on the defensive end. He was throwing it down at the beginning of the season. After injury, no explosiveness at all.
 
In 27 games in Portland last year, Powell averaged 17 a game on 58% TS, and a 14 PER. These are fairly in line with his career averages. And his defensive impact is still a question mark within his role as a SF. There were guys on minimums who had similar impact without the counting stats last year.

Handcuffing ourselves to a deal > $25 mil/yr deal for a guy who produces as much as he does in a role that isn't optimal is idiotic. I too don't want to lose Powell for nothing, but if we're throwing that kind of cash at him, at least try to maximize his impact by trading CJ.
 
illmatic99 said:
In 27 games in Portland last year, Powell averaged 17 a game on 58% TS, and a 14 PER. These are fairly in line with his career averages. And his defensive impact is still a question mark within his role as a SF. There were guys on minimums who had similar impact without the counting stats last year.

Handcuffing ourselves to a deal > $25 mil/yr deal for a guy who produces as much as he does in a role that isn't optimal is idiotic. I too don't want to lose Powell for nothing, but if we're throwing that kind of cash at him, at least try to maximize his impact by trading CJ.
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Signing Norm to a big deal and then not trading CJ is the most Neil Olshian thing that Neil Olshey could do.
 
illmatic99 said:
In 27 games in Portland last year, Powell averaged 17 a game on 58% TS, and a 14 PER. These are fairly in line with his career averages. And his defensive impact is still a question mark within his role as a SF. There were guys on minimums who had similar impact without the counting stats last year.

Handcuffing ourselves to a deal > $25 mil/yr deal for a guy who produces as much as he does in a role that isn't optimal is idiotic. I too don't want to lose Powell for nothing, but if we're throwing that kind of cash at him, at least try to maximize his impact by trading CJ.
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Taking someone who has only known one system/team his entire career and then asking him to adapt to an entirely new situation (where he's in a critical role) midseason is not easy. I think he did well. He missed some open shots, but there's always going to be variance in shooting.
 
Going back to my OP in this thread about similar contracts from last year, this is Norm's SG competition for $ this year:

- DeRozan
- Hardaway Jr.
- Fournier
- Oladipo
- Trent Jr
- Will Barton
- Josh Hart
- Dinwiddie
- Danny Green
- JJ Redick
- Malik Monk (he's a UFA!)

Add to this other scoring guards (who can play next to point guards) who are available:

- Derrick Rose
- Mills
- Schroeder
- Reggie Jackson
- Cam Payne
- Graham
- Kendrick Nunn

And forwards who can swing down to SG and do similar things:

- Bullock
- McDermott
- Duncan Robinson (RFA)
- Oubre


I think Norm might get squeezed. There isn't this much $ out there for guys of his caliber.
 
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tykendo said:
But we will never know because of that injury. CJ wasn't the same after coming back, especially on the defensive end. He was throwing it down at the beginning of the season. After injury, no explosiveness at all.
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Do you think that maybe the 500 games CJ played before that 12 game stretch and the 40 games he played after are a lot better indicators of CJ's level than an unsustainable hot streak?

I mean, Dame had about a 10 game stretch when he was averaging 44 & 10 while shooting 55% on three's and posting a TS% of 70%. But he came back to earth and just returned to normal Dame. Like CJ returned to normal CJ. The Denver playoff series started more than 2 months after CJ returned from a non-displaced fracture. If 12 game CJ was real, he would not have been outplayed by Austin Rivers and Monte Morris
 
illmatic99 said:
too old? a 35 yr old PJ Tucker averaged 30 mpg in the playoffs this year. Young would be a role player averaging about 25-30 mpg on this team and I'll maintain that he'd be a great fit.
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Going back to this and some other conversations we've had, along with @PtldPlatypus

We can actually do this:

DJJ+Future 1st for Thaddeus Young

This frees up 5 million in cap-space for the Bulls, which gets them to 92M. Just enough to offer Ball a 20M+/Year contract in FA.

In order of timing, we would need to execute this trade first so that we can do salary matching as a non-taxpayer. Then re-sign Norman Powell after.

One thing is that I'm not sure whether Norm's caphold (17M) factors into the salary matching rule. If not, we could always add Simons.
 
B-Roy said:
Going back to this and some other conversations we've had, along with @PtldPlatypus

We can actually do this:

DJJ+Future 1st for Thaddeus Young

This frees up 5 million in cap-space for the Bulls, which gets them to 92M. Just enough to offer Ball a 20M+/Year contract in FA.

In order of timing, we would need to execute this trade first so that we can do salary matching as a non-taxpayer. Then re-sign Norman Powell after.

One thing is that I'm not sure whether Norm's caphold (17M) factors into the salary matching rule.

If not, we could always add Simons.
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If we keep CJ then I can see using Simons as a throw-in. But if we move CJ we will need an excellent 3 pt shooter besides just Dame. And ANT is an excellent 3 pt shooter. 43% and that was after a slow start.
 
B-Roy said:
Going back to this and some other conversations we've had, along with @PtldPlatypus

We can actually do this:

DJJ+Future 1st for Thaddeus Young

This frees up 5 million in cap-space for the Bulls, which gets them to 92M. Just enough to offer Ball a 20M+/Year contract in FA.

In order of timing, we would need to execute this trade first so that we can do salary matching as a non-taxpayer. Then re-sign Norman Powell after.

One thing is that I'm not sure whether Norm's caphold (17M) factors into the salary matching rule. If not, we could always add Simons.
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Thad makes 14.8 this year. How can we take that back by just trading DJJ?
 
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