Nurk: 4/48 deal official

[hoopsjock]

That's the point....there weren't any. $17M is not close to....zero. Someone in the league told me the Celts would have offered him the full MLE but that was it. That would have been about half of what Olshey ponied up.

I wish Olshey didn't sign Turner, but if Boston was willing to offer the full-MLE we don't know how much higher they would've gone to keep him. The Blazers pretty much have to give an offer free agents can't refuse to get someone like Evan Turner (once again, not a good choice).

The Celtics are pretty much going through the same thing with Marcus Smart right now. The difference is that it's not 2016 so most teams have at best the MLE to offer, which Smart obviously feels he deserves more than.

 

[kjironman1]

That's the point....there weren't any. $17M is not close to....zero. Someone in the league told me the Celts would have offered him the full MLE but that was it. That would have been about half of what Olshey ponied up.

Not sure about that? We don't know who was offering and what they were offering.

 

[kjironman1]

I wish Olshey didn't sign Turner, but if Boston was willing to offer the full-MLE we don't know how much higher they would've gone to keep him. The Blazers pretty much have to give an offer free agents can't refuse to get someone like Evan Turner (once again, not a good choice).

The Celtics are pretty much going through the same thing with Marcus Smart right now. The difference is that it's not 2016 so most teams have at best the MLE to offer, which Smart obviously feels he deserves more than.

I agree. It's also interesting how the simple difference in availability effects the way players respond to offers. Money does indeed make the world go round.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Olshey is still an idiot. Nurkic was never gonna get paid more than this in FA. The game has evolved. The Nurkic stereotype of center is dying in the league. If Nurk had a three ball and was more versatile, his value would of been way higher in FA.

I disagree with this. I think small ball has about reached its peak. There is a flock of bigs coming out that will start dominating in a few years if remained healthy.
Kat, imbeid, etc.
I think over the next five years we see it trend back and maybe nurk is one of the leader of the charge for back to the basket, big man inside ball.

 

[RR7]

Someone at realgm states that the deal could be 16 + 16 + 16 + 5 guarantee. Which could explain the 5M difference between Shams and Woj. Opinion?

I think that poster is kind of an ass, generally. No contract is ever reported that way, that I've seen.

 

[Hoopguru]

What were other teams offering? what is considered "anywhere close"?

Plus, the Turner chapter isn't yet over as far as his role and contribution to the team's expected success.
Paul and Neil knew exactly what they were getting in Turner and wanted him as part of the core going forward to the next step.
Money is not capital, the tool you purchase with money is capital.
Chalk for the school teacher, Hammer for the carpenter, Player for a pro team. Some organizations and people way over spend on products with certain features they like even knowing there are weakness's too.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Plus, the Turner chapter isn't yet over as far as his role and contribution to the team's expected success.
Paul and Neil knew exactly what they were getting in Turner and wanted him as part of the core going forward to the next step.
Money is not capital, the tool you purchase with money is capital.
Chalk for the school teacher, Hammer for the carpenter, Player for a pro team. Some organizations and people way over spend on products with certain features they like even knowing there are weakness's too.

Which all teams have to do at times because the tools that are complete and versatile to fit any and all needs are far and few between.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

And you better not say a muthafuckin’ word about the arm patch on his pink plaid shirt.

Not. One. Fucking. Word.

I'm not usually afraid of people but I'd ask him if his cars needed any work. Free of charge of course.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Olshey is still an idiot. Nurkic was never gonna get paid more than this in FA. The game has evolved. The Nurkic stereotype of center is dying in the league. If Nurk had a three ball and was more versatile, his value would of been way higher in FA.

Given our undersized, defensively challenged backcourt, Nurk has more value to us than he would to most teams. Fact is, we'd be a below .500 team without him. That's exactly what we were. 23-32 (.418) with Plumlee at center prior to the trade. With Nurk as a starter, we're 62-36 (.633). And Nurk is a dying breed? Do you really long to return to the pre-Nurk days when we had a losing record and one of the worst defenses in the entire league?

Neil got Nurk and a 1st round pick from DEN for Plumlee and in the end resigned Nurk for less per year than DEN is paying Plumlee to come off their bench. And Neil is the idiot? You sure about that?

BNM

 

[BBert]

We talk about how sometimes players team up with their buddies to stack teams. We say that will never happen to us. Last year we thought maybe Dame could attract a Paul George or Carmelo Anthony. It didn't happen.

Maybe it just did? Maybe Nurk took a reasonable, long term deal because he likes the team, the coaches, but mostly to play with Dame "Fourth in MVP Voting" Lillard.

I'd be willing to bet that The Lillard Effect had a lot to do with it.

 

[Boob-No-More]

No one has changed, but you go right ahead and fantasize that we have.

P.S. What fake news rumor?

I have no such fantasy. I long ago realized some people will never change. They may temporarily slink back under their rock, waiting eagerly for the next opportunity to spout their venom of negativity, but they don't change. They just prefer to hide in darkness rather than bask in the bright glow of enlightenment. I have long since abandoned any pretense of rescuing them from their self-imposed darkness.

This #FakeNews rumor:

http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/nurk-3-yrs-45-million.332936/

I'm surprised you somehow missed out on this latest round of Olshey bashing. Too busy hiding under your rock?

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

We talk about how sometimes players team up with their buddies to stack teams. We say that will never happen to us. Last year we thought maybe Dame could attract a Paul George or Carmelo Anthony. It didn't happen.

Maybe it just did? Maybe Nurk took a reasonable, long term deal because he likes the team, the coaches, but mostly to play with Dame "Fourth in MVP Voting" Lillard.

I'd be willing to bet that The Lillard Effect had a lot to do with it.

Nurk and Dame bonded from day 1. He now has a teammate and a leader who believes in him. It's obvious he's much happier here than he was in DEN. Yeah, we totally won that trade. So did Nurk. He's gone from an under-utilized outcast to a starter and fan favorite. Not hard to see why he likes it here.

BNM

 

[oldmangrouch]

So someone who almost singlehandedly made a team with Dame and CJ a top 10 defense has no place in the NBA because he doesn't shoot 3's?

It wasn't that long ago Greg Monroe was considered one of the best young centers in the league. As of now, he has no job. If he gets signed, it may well be for the vets minimum. What coaches want from the center position is changing.

 

[RR7]

It wasn't that long ago Greg Monroe was considered one of the best young centers in the league. As of now, he has no job. If he gets signed, it may well be for the vets minimum. What coaches want from the center position is changing.

Monroe can't anchor a team's defense the way Nurk can. I don't see how he's relevant.

 

[andalusian]

It wasn't that long ago Greg Monroe was considered one of the best young centers in the league. As of now, he has no job. If he gets signed, it may well be for the vets minimum. What coaches want from the center position is changing.

Greg Monroe was never a defensive force. What coaches want from centers might have changed on the offense, but it is mostly still the same on defense.

 

[CupWizier]

I disagree with this. I think small ball has about reached its peak. There is a flock of bigs coming out that will start dominating in a few years if remained healthy.
Kat, imbeid, etc.
I think over the next five years we see it trend back and maybe nurk is one of the leader of the charge for back to the basket, big man inside ball.

I'm not sure we will see a lot of change in that direction as teams have figured out that shooting 33% from the 3 is equal to shooting 50% from inside the 3 point line and there are many players in the NBA that shoot 33% or better from 3. The only way I see the game opening up much more to big guys is if they move the 3 point line out further or eliminate it. I would actually like to see the court widened to create more spacing for ball movement. The players have become too big and athletic for the court size.

 

[Five Second Violation]

Monroe can't anchor a team's defense the way Nurk can. I don't see how he's relevant.

Exactly. Monroe makes teams worse defensively. Nurkic makes them better. It's pretty simple.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Greg Monroe was never a defensive force. What coaches want from centers might have changed on the offense, but it is mostly still the same on defense.

Actually, because of the way the game has changed offensively, coaches want (and need) even more from their centers defensively. They can no longer just protect the rim and bang down low in the paint on defense, they need to be able to defend the pick and roll all the way out to the 3-point line, and beyond.

In spite of being huge and not laterally quick, Nurk is VERY good at defending the pick and roll. He uses his size and strength to briefly swallow up both the screener and the ball handler at the point of attack. This gives our guards time to recover and get back in the play defensively and requires MUCH less switching on the pick and roll than we did with Plumlee at center. It is his ability to effectively guard the pick and roll that transformed this team from bottom 7 to top 8 in defense. It also killed the Dame and C.J. can never coexist because of their defensive limitations narrative.

BNM

 

[hoopsjock]

It wasn't that long ago Greg Monroe was considered one of the best young centers in the league. As of now, he has no job. If he gets signed, it may well be for the vets minimum. What coaches want from the center position is changing.

My goodness, that is your counter? Greg Monroe? A horrible defender? I'm sorry but if that is your argument against Nurk then you have no argument.

 

[tykendo]

My goodness, that is your counter? Greg Monroe? A horrible defender? I'm sorry but if that is your argument against Nurk then you have no argument.

Agree, Greg Monroe's career is spiraling downhill. His best years were in Detroit. Watching him now, he's a shadow of his former self, and nowhere near the talent of Nurk.

 

[A$AP Meyers]

It also killed the Dame and C.J. can never coexist because of their defensive limitations narrative.

BNM

No it didn’t. Did you watch the New Orleans series? 1-4 Pick and Pop with Mirotic killed us. As did the 1-5 P&R with AD. Weak side defenders either had to help on the AD lob, which left guys spotted up wide-open on the skip pass (a pass Rondo and Jrue were very capable of making), or AD was wide open for the lob because Nurk had to help cover for Dame or CJ for too long.

Jrue and Rondo collapsed our shell at will and that starts with lack of perimeter defense. We need one more piece who can guard the perimeter at an elite level, otherwise come playoff time it’s always going to be the same story with Dame and CJ.

 

[A$AP Meyers]

New Orleans literally dissected our defense running 1 or 2 actions over and over again, and guys are actually saying the Dame/CJ defense narrative is killed with a straight face.

This board is amazing.

 

[hoopsjock]

Actually, because of the way the game has changed offensively, coaches want (and need) even more from their centers defensively. They can no longer just protect the rim and bang down low in the paint on defense, they need to be able to defend the pick and roll all the way out to the 3-point line, and beyond.

In spite of being huge and not laterally quick, Nurk is VERY good at defending the pick and roll. He uses his size and strength to briefly swallow up both the screener and the ball handler at the point of attack. This gives our guards time to recover and get back in the play defensively and requires MUCH less switching on the pick and roll than we did with Plumlee at center. It is his ability to effectively guard the pick and roll that transformed this team from bottom 7 to top 8 in defense. It also killed the Dame and C.J. can never coexist because of their defensive limitations narrative.

BNM

I think you touched on something that is the most overlooked skill in all of basketball. That skill is the ability to navigate a pick and roll on defense in a way that allows your teammate that is being screened to recover instead of having to switch. Sure, having switchability is super helpful but if you don't even need to switch it makes it even better. For how many times a game Nurk's man sets a pick, he rarely gets caught having to defend a guard. Whereas other players (like Collins, hopefully this improves) get switched onto a guard almost every time their man sets a screen. It just makes me cringe whenever I hear someone say the new cliche that centers like Nurk are going away.

 

[oldmangrouch]

My goodness, that is your counter? Greg Monroe? A horrible defender? I'm sorry but if that is your argument against Nurk then you have no argument.

Monroe was a weak defender 5 years ago - teams still wanted him. He didn't change, fashions changed.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Exactly. Monroe makes teams worse defensively. Nurkic makes them better. It's pretty simple.

Monroe was always weak on "D". Coaches used to accept that as long as he hit the boards and provided low post offense. Times (and fashions) change.

 

[tlongII]

Good deal.

 

[A$AP Meyers]

I think you touched on something that is the most overlooked skill in all of basketball. That skill is the ability to navigate a pick and roll on defense in a way that allows your teammate that is being screened to recover instead of having to switch. Sure, having switchability is super helpful but if you don't even need to switch it makes it even better. For how many times a game Nurk's man sets a pick, he rarely gets caught having to defend a guard. Whereas other players (like Collins, hopefully this improves) get switched onto a guard almost every time their man sets a screen. It just makes me cringe whenever I hear someone say the new cliche that centers like Nurk are going away.

Nurk is only 23, too. Not to mention in the past year he’s really transformed his body. He moved so much better this past season than his first with us. Sky is the limit for him. I’m glad he and Dame seem to be close, I really think having a guy like Dame around is exactly what Nurk needed.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Oh okay, sorry grammar police on a forum criticizing somebody at one in the morning. My bad. It's true though.

Hey man.... I just love good irony. If you’re going to call someone an idiot, you need to make sure your side of the street is clean.

Or some shit like that.....

 

[hoopsjock]

Monroe was a weak defender 5 years ago - teams still wanted him. He didn't change, fashions changed.

Monroe was always weak on "D". Coaches used to accept that as long as he hit the boards and provided low post offense. Times (and fashions) change.

What is the point you are trying to make? Nurk and Monroe aren't even comparable as players so it can't be that. Is it that they are both big "plodders"? Why would a team like the Celtics who were competing to come out of the East pick up Greg Monroe if he didn't still have a place in the NBA? I just don't get how Nurk's defense relates to a player that is horrible on defense, can you enlighten me?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I disagree with this. I think small ball has about reached its peak. There is a flock of bigs coming out that will start dominating in a few years if remained healthy.
Kat, imbeid, etc.
I think over the next five years we see it trend back and maybe nurk is one of the leader of the charge for back to the basket, big man inside ball.

Small ball dies when the next Shaq comes into this league...

Or if Nurk plays like Nurk of 2017, right after we acquired him....