Nurk and RoCo made available in trade talks

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Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
What evidence do you want? Are you not watching the games?
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Executives in this league have long valued offense over defense... that's just the way it's been and it's skewed that way more and more over the last three decades. I've watched CJ be an absolute sieve on defense but I've watched the same thing from Dame. The truth is that playing next to each other is a huge disservice to both players. So given what I hear national analysts say about CJ, I would have to think that he has positive trade value to at least some of the GMs around the league. It's not your certainty that CJ gives up too many points that makes your post shit, it's your certainty that you know the mind of 29 GMs.
 
blazerkor said:
Executives in this league have long valued offense over defense... that's just the way it's been and it's skewed that way more and more over the last three decades. I've watched CJ be an absolute sieve on defense but I've watched the same thing from Dame. The truth is that playing next to each other is a huge disservice to both players. So given what I hear national analysts say about CJ, I would have to think that he has positive trade value to at least some of the GMs around the league. It's not your certainty that CJ gives up too many points that makes your post shit, it's your certainty that you know the mind of 29 GMs.
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CJ is 437 out of 483 players in defensive rating, Norman Powell btw is 433

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/a...dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular Season
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
CJ is 437 out of 483 players in defensive rating, Norman Powell btw is 433

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular Season
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Did you read the post you are responding to? I wasn't arguing with you about CJ being garbage on defense. CJ next to Dame is an awful idea. NBA GMs like offensive numbers because they are far easier to quantify in a vacuum whereas defensive numbers are as much of a reflection of the personnel a player is teamed up with as they are the player's abilities. The guy gets buckets and that's very valuable.

To say that you're sure that CJ can't be moved with value coming back in return is presumptuous to say the least. We know that we've had a GM that thought his value was all star level and don't know if the new GM feels the same way because he has been in that same front office since CJ was drafted but if Cronin does have a more realistic view of CJ's value and if we could get something good in return for CJ, Cronin in his eleven days of being GM can't have shown us what could be done with CJ or what he's willing to do because CJ has been injured the entire time.

I'm not saying that we can get something great for CJ but I have heard a lot of former GMs call Dame and CJ the best back court in the NBA and that has been with CJ putting up abysmal defensive stats for the entirety of his tenure starting. So what I have been saying is that when people in here take an absolute stance that CJ has no trade value, they come off very foolishly and the take is premature because his value hasn't been gauged by a reasonable GM.
 
Well CJ and Powell and Dame and Simons there defense rating is about the same between 115 to 117. But Dpm Powell is little better then other 3 and other 3 is over 2.0. so there all below average defenders. Do I think CJ should be traded yes for players that's fit the system and that can create off the dribble. Because right out ball handling skills are terrible. You got Dame right now is the only one can create for other guys. CJ could but that's not is DNA and Simons what's to be like the other two he just wants to shoot.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
If Porter Jr signed for only 2 million, he clearly wanted to go there..... instead of anywhere else.
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Yeah, there's guys I wanted, but I don't think we could get them. Nobody seems to want to come here.

The Dame drama and the situation with Billups really killed our momentum going into the offseason and I also really question if Neil was even trying that hard.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Yeah, there's guys I wanted, but I don't think we could get them. Nobody seems to want to come here.

The Dame drama and the situation with Billups really killed our momentum going into the offseason and I also really question if Neil was even trying that hard.
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Nobody ever *wanted* to come here except when we could spend more than everyone else and were championship contenders.
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
Otto Porter Jr. Btw, is number 1.
Of course I was begging for us to sign him on numerous posts this summer. But my posts are shit...
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We don't get in demand free agents. That can not be part of our strategy.

Like, still try, and if it happens great. But it's not going to happen unless we can pay more (we can't) or if we give them the best chance to win a title.
 
Phatguysrule said:
We don't get in demand free agents. That can not be part of our strategy.

Like, still try, and if it happens great. But it's not going to happen unless we can pay more (we can't) or if we give them the best chance to win a title.
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Otto Porter signed for a minimum contract (2.4M). Blazers had a full tax-MLE to use of 5.9M...which they didn't use. Technically, they used part of it on Greg Brown; but it was typical Olshey to dilute an important asset for a scrub. Blazer DID NOT need to sign Brown for 3 seasons

I think, like a lot of what happened in the Olshey era, we don't really know whether or not what Portland had to offer would have been enough to land a player. Would Porter have signed with Portland for 3.5M more than he got from the Warriors?
 
wizenheimer said:
Otto Porter signed for a minimum contract (2.4M). Blazers had a full tax-MLE to use of 5.9M...which they didn't use. Technically, they used part of it on Greg Brown; but it was typical Olshey to dilute an important asset for a scrub. Blazer DID NOT need to sign Brown for 3 seasons

I think, like a lot of what happened in the Olshey era, we don't really know whether or not what Portland had to offer would have been enough to land a player. Would Porter have signed with Portland for 3.5M more than he got from the Warriors?
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Not likely, because there were other teams who would have given him as much or more money, a more appealing social life, or a better chance to win a title.

Free agency isn't where we're going to be able make our gains. Portland is not a destination.

Again, I'm not saying it can't happen, but it's incredibly unlikely to the point that it's not worth debating hits and misses in free agency.

If it happens great, if not, that should be expected.
 
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wizenheimer said:
Otto Porter signed for a minimum contract (2.4M). Blazers had a full tax-MLE to use of 5.9M...which they didn't use. Technically, they used part of it on Greg Brown; but it was typical Olshey to dilute an important asset for a scrub. Blazer DID NOT need to sign Brown for 3 seasons

I think, like a lot of what happened in the Olshey era, we don't really know whether or not what Portland had to offer would have been enough to land a player. Would Porter have signed with Portland for 3.5M more than he got from the Warriors?
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I think the more you look at how olshey would draft project and things like that the more the rumors about him wanting to trade same may have been true. signing Greg brown to 3 years is a good example
 
Phatguysrule said:
Not likely, because there were other teams who would have given him as much or more money, a more appealing social life, or a better chance to win a title.
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I don't think there was a line of teams offering Porter more than the minimum. I don't even know if there were any. He had too extensive an injury history and had only played in 42 games the two previous seasons

I also don't think, last summer, there were very many people predicting the Warriors would be a contender this season. Not with Klay out

in a very real sense, Porter was a high-risk/high-reward player made into a low-risk/high-reward because of his willingness to settle for a minimum. Olshey was a no-risk/low-reward GM
 
blazedanugz said:
I think the more you look at how olshey would draft project and things like that the more the rumors about him wanting to trade same may have been true. signing Greg brown to 3 years is a good example
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sorry....I'm not connecting the dots...?
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
Otto Porter Jr. Btw, is number 1.
Of course I was begging for us to sign him on numerous posts this summer. But my posts are shit...
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Pinwheel1 said:
If Porter Jr signed for only 2 million, he clearly wanted to go there..... instead of anywhere else.
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Natebishop3 said:
People act like he wanted to come here and we told him to fuck off. He went to the best team in the league lol.
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wizenheimer said:
Otto Porter signed for a minimum contract (2.4M). Blazers had a full tax-MLE to use of 5.9M...which they didn't use. Technically, they used part of it on Greg Brown; but it was typical Olshey to dilute an important asset for a scrub. Blazer DID NOT need to sign Brown for 3 seasons

I think, like a lot of what happened in the Olshey era, we don't really know whether or not what Portland had to offer would have been enough to land a player. Would Porter have signed with Portland for 3.5M more than he got from the Warriors?
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wizenheimer said:
I don't think there was a line of teams offering Porter more than the minimum. I don't even know if there were any. He had too extensive an injury history and had only played in 42 games the two previous seasons

I also don't think, last summer, there were very many people predicting the Warriors would be a contender this season. Not with Klay out

in a very real sense, Porter was a high-risk/high-reward player made into a low-risk/high-reward because of his willingness to settle for a minimum. Olshey was a no-risk/low-reward GM
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As someone above said, he wanted to be there. He turned down larger offers.
 
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hadn't seen that

good to know that Haynes is now given credibility in this forum
 
wizenheimer said:
Would Porter have signed with Portland for 3.5M more than he got from the Warriors?
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I doubt it. Porter has already cashed a max deal--$3.5M extra in one season probably wasn't a priority. I'd guess his priority was landing in the right situation to maximize his skill set to set him up for his next contract. The Warriors have a coach, system and group of players known for letting everyone touch the ball and look good if they have a good basketball IQ. Portland has no such reputation and was starting over with a rookie head coach. Situation-wise, the two teams couldn't have been more different in terms of what they offered a veteran looking to rebuild his value.

And, realistically, Porter likely made the right choice. He's very similar to Covington, in that he's a former small forward who these days profiles best at power forward, his defensive skills tilt more towards team defense than individual defense and he needs a good offensive system for his shooting to flourish. Billups didn't really put Covington in the best situation to maximize his skill set until, arguably, recently. Meanwhile, the Warriors tailored Porter's role perfectly to what he does best. Covington probably would look much better in Golden State too.
 
wizenheimer said:
I don't think there was a line of teams offering Porter more than the minimum. I don't even know if there were any. He had too extensive an injury history and had only played in 42 games the two previous seasons

I also don't think, last summer, there were very many people predicting the Warriors would be a contender this season. Not with Klay out

in a very real sense, Porter was a high-risk/high-reward player made into a low-risk/high-reward because of his willingness to settle for a minimum. Olshey was a no-risk/low-reward GM
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Did you see the way the warriors finished the season last year?

Without Klay they have twice as many all stars as we do. And a far more appealing social life. Not to mention better professional environment for players. We're a mess, especially after Stotts was fired.

Sorry, we weren't going to get him if he was desirable. We have to get lucky and grab a guy nobody else wants by offering more money than other non destination teams can offer.
 
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