Obama floats plan to tax cars by the mile

[barfo]

I'm sure you already know this and are just doing your typical shtick, but...

There is a difference between: a) rich = people who drive cars and b) the average bus rider income is lower

I actually don't know if (b) is true, but in my experience it seems like it might be.

Of course there is a difference between (a) and (b), but YOU were the one who introduced "rich" into the discussion, and then drew the contrast with "bus riders".

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

Of course there is a difference between (a) and (b), but YOU were the one who introduced "rich" into the discussion, and then drew the contrast with "bus riders".

barfo

And then YOU made a faulty assumption.

 

[barfo]

Will these new taxes be offset by lower taxes elsewhere? Me thinks not.

Remember, everyone else needs to make a sacrifice in tough economic times but the Government.

It's a proposal to study the feasibility of a particular tax mechanism, not a new tax.
By the time it is implemented, if indeed it is implemented, perhaps we won't be in tough economic times.

barfo

 

[barfo]

And then YOU made a faulty assumption.

Yes, my faulty assumption was that you were trying to make some sort of an argument, rather than just posting random stuff.
I'll try not to make that assumption about your posts again.

barfo

 

[RR7]

And then YOU made a faulty assumption.

What was the point of bringing up the tax on the rich, and then bus riders, then?

 

[magnifier661]

Looking at the entire "economic picture" and ramifications of the "mile tax"; this won't effect only the individual. neighboring commuter cities will receive a HUGE exodus; which would create terrible housing values to drop. This would ripple to even cities close to the job locations. Car companies would take major hits in sales. Cities and states would immediately scramble and require federal funds to incorporate public transite for their citizens. Any way you look at this, it will completely destroy our economy. Something this radical would need years to implement. You can't just tax like this and expect no ramifications.

People of Oregon, mainly portland for that matter, are blessed with a city that adheres to public transportation. LA would be a total clusterfuck. The same would apply to other cities, spread out like Dallas, Miami, Orlando, Houston, Phoenix and so on.

 

[barfo]

Looking at the entire "economic picture" and ramifications of the "mile tax"; this won't effect only the individual. neighboring commuter cities will receive a HUGE exodus; which would create terrible housing values to drop. This would ripple to even cities close to the job locations. Car companies would take major hits in sales. Cities and states would immediately scramble and require federal funds to incorporate public transite for their citizens. Any way you look at this, it will completely destroy our economy. Something this radical would need years to implement. You can't just tax like this and expect no ramifications.

People of Oregon, mainly portland for that matter, are blessed with a city that adheres to public transportation. LA would be a total clusterfuck. The same would apply to other cities, spread out like Dallas, Miami, Orlando, Houston, Phoenix and so on.

I think you are overreacting. The effect of this tax is no different than the effect of the gas tax, which has been in effect for decades. The only difference is that mileage tax will apply to electric cars, whereas the gas tax wouldn't. That's why governments are interested in moving from gas to mileage tax.

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Looking at the entire "economic picture" and ramifications of the "mile tax"; this won't effect only the individual. neighboring commuter cities will receive a HUGE exodus; which would create terrible housing values to drop. This would ripple to even cities close to the job locations. Car companies would take major hits in sales. Cities and states would immediately scramble and require federal funds to incorporate public transite for their citizens. Any way you look at this, it will completely destroy our economy. Something this radical would need years to implement. You can't just tax like this and expect no ramifications.

People of Oregon, mainly portland for that matter, are blessed with a city that adheres to public transportation. LA would be a total clusterfuck. The same would apply to other cities, spread out like Dallas, Miami, Orlando, Houston, Phoenix and so on.

Nah, In LA it would just lead to more hot chicks hitchhiking.

 

[magnifier661]

I think you are overreacting. The effect of this tax is no different than the effect of the gas tax, which has been in effect for decades. The only difference is that mileage tax will apply to electric cars, whereas the gas tax wouldn't. That's why governments are interested in moving from gas to mileage tax.

barfo

So you're saying the people with "gas cars" will be exempt of this tax?

 

[magnifier661]

Nah, In LA it would just lead to more hot chicks hitchhiking.

Well then Im all for it. Time to invest in a Prius!

 

[blazerboy30]

What was the point of bringing up the tax on the rich, and then bus riders, then?

See my earlier post about (a) and (b).

 

[barfo]

So you're saying the people with "gas cars" will be exempt of this tax?

No, it would apply to any type of propulsion.

barfo

 

[magnifier661]

No, it would apply to any type of propulsion.

barfo

So basically people owning a gasoline car gets double fucked with no Vaseline?

 

[RR7]

See my earlier post about (a) and (b).

I see it. But the discussion involved a tax on people who drive, and you mentioned it as a tax on the rich. Not really a leap in logic to say you were calling this a tax on the rich. You also say your experience is bus riders are lower income. And are curious whether they will be taxed as well. If not, and we somehow have your take on this wrong, feel free to actually explain your position on it being a rich tax, and asking about the bus. I'd be curious otherwise what your point was.

 

[magnifier661]

So my "economic implosion" isn't over-reacting. It will happen if this tax is passed.

 

[RR7]

So basically people owning a gasoline car gets double fucked with no Vaseline?

No, each gas car will now come with vaseline.

 

[magnifier661]

I see it. But the discussion involved a tax on people who drive, and you mentioned it as a tax on the rich. Not really a leap in logic to say you were calling this a tax on the rich. You also say your experience is bus riders are lower income. And are curious whether they will be taxed as well. If not, and we somehow have your take on this wrong, feel free to actually explain your position on it being a rich tax, and asking about the bus. I'd be curious otherwise what your point was.

Actually this would be a tax on the middle class. The people that own their homes, just 30 miles from the major metropolitan area that they work. The very same people that make decent money, but not enough to buy a home in that area. Southern California has roughly 70% of their middle class that commutes more than 30 miles a day for work. A tax like this would hit them harder than the rich or poor, since the rich can afford to live in the big city and the poor can afford to live in the slums of the big city.

 

[andalusian]

No, each gas car will now come with vaseline.

Well, Vaseline is Petroleum jelly, so... it only makes sense.

(*) Robert Augustus Cheesebrough.

 

[barfo]

So my "economic implosion" isn't over-reacting. It will happen if this tax is passed.

It's completely an overreaction. First of all, this is just a proposal to do a study. Secondly, who says that the gas tax doesn't go away if this is implemented? Thirdly, even if it doesn't, is there some law that says you must continue to drive a gas powered vehicle? If it is much cheaper to buy an electric, then people will buy electrics. It's not the end of civilization.

barfo

 

[maxiep]

I see it. But the discussion involved a tax on people who drive, and you mentioned it as a tax on the rich. Not really a leap in logic to say you were calling this a tax on the rich. You also say your experience is bus riders are lower income. And are curious whether they will be taxed as well. If not, and we somehow have your take on this wrong, feel free to actually explain your position on it being a rich tax, and asking about the bus. I'd be curious otherwise what your point was.

Have you ever received a tax refund? It's not only conceivable but expected that poorer drivers would get their "road tax" rebated to them while the more affluent paid their share and the shares of a few others. That's how it's "tax[ing] the rich".

 

[maxiep]

Actually this would be a tax on the middle class. The people that own their homes, just 30 miles from the major metropolitan area that they work. The very same people that make decent money, but not enough to buy a home in that area. Southern California has roughly 70% of their middle class that commutes more than 30 miles a day for work. A tax like this would hit them harder than the rich or poor, since the rich can afford to live in the big city and the poor can afford to live in the slums of the big city.

It would also set off another wave of foreclosures as property values would drop in those far-flung suburbs.

 

[barfo]

Actually this would be a tax on the middle class. The people that own their homes, just 30 miles from the major metropolitan area that they work. The very same people that make decent money, but not enough to buy a home in that area. Southern California has roughly 70% of their middle class that commutes more than 30 miles a day for work. A tax like this would hit them harder than the rich or poor, since the rich can afford to live in the big city and the poor can afford to live in the slums of the big city.

Everything you just said is true of the gas tax today.

barfo

 

[maxiep]

I'm amazed that I'm the only one concerned about the privacy issues of the government putting a Federal Lo-Jack on your car.

 

[Minstrel]

I'm amazed that I'm the only one concerned about the privacy issues of the government putting a Federal Lo-Jack on your car.

I doubt location tracking will actually ever come to fruition when simply tracking total miles driven will do quite well.

 

[magnifier661]

It's completely an overreaction. First of all, this is just a proposal to do a study. Secondly, who says that the gas tax doesn't go away if this is implemented? Thirdly, even if it doesn't, is there some law that says you must continue to drive a gas powered vehicle? If it is much cheaper to buy an electric, then people will buy electrics. It's not the end of civilization.

barfo

Seems to me there is a lot of holes in this proposal and the people of the great US of A will not stand for it. Basically you are endorsing a triple tax for the privilege to drive a vehicle. This reminds me so much of inheritance tax. Your parents already paid a tax on their income, then they pass and the government can take 30% of that just to pass it to your hands. Talk about some fucking bullshit!

 

[magnifier661]

I'm amazed that I'm the only one concerned about the privacy issues of the government putting a Federal Lo-Jack on your car.

Exactly!!!!! This also reminds me of Clinton proposing a chip to be planted surgically to each individual, so it would eliminate identity theft. LOL

 

[magnifier661]

Everything you just said is true of the gas tax today.

barfo

And yet, nothing in this proposal talks about doing away with the "gas tax". So basically you are double fucking the middle class. I am actually rich and can afford the tax; but I have many middle class friends that would suffer greatly.

For example: One of my friends works at Edward's Airforce Base. The housing there is absolutely terrible. Worst school system, terrible entertainment, and 0 restaurants. He decided to live off base because he wanted to have his kids go to a better school. This area is 42 miles from where he works, since the security of the base has about 20 miles from the nearest city.

So you mean to tell me, if this tax is passed, and they don't eliminate the gas tax (Because there is no way in hell they will give up that kind of money); my friend will be raped for just wanting to be in a better neighborhood and school system for his family.

 

[magnifier661]

Average Southern California Commuter daily miles = 82 round trip. Factor the average MPG is roughly 18. That is basically 4.5 gallons per commuter, per day. "federal excise tax which is 18.4 cents for gasoline and 24.4 cents for diesel fuel."

Multiply this with the amount of population of millions of commuters and it's roughly 80¢ per head per day.

Do you honestly think that the federal government will eliminate the "gas tax" because they implimented a "mileage tax"?! Are you fucking crazy?!?!

 

[maxiep]

And yet, nothing in this proposal talks about doing away with the "gas tax". So basically you are double fucking the middle class. I am actually rich and can afford the tax; but I have many middle class friends that would suffer greatly.

For example: One of my friends works at Edward's Airforce Base. The housing there is absolutely terrible. Worst school system, terrible entertainment, and 0 restaurants. He decided to live off base because he wanted to have his kids go to a better school. This area is 42 miles from where he works, since the security of the base has about 20 miles from the nearest city.

So you mean to tell me, if this tax is passed, and they don't eliminate the gas tax (Because there is no way in hell they will give up that kind of money); my friend will be raped for just wanting to be in a better neighborhood and school system for his family.

It's worse than a gas tax. You can generally choose to purchase a fuel efficient car or not (although the switchover costs are high). If you choose to drive a V-8, you pay more in gas tax than if you buy a hybrid. It's more difficult to change houses/locations than to change cars. This proposed tax is a tax on how far you drive, not just how much gas you consume.

It also means you're less likely to change jobs if the new job is further from your home. No one wants to pull their kids out of their school if they can help it. Property values and rents close to employment centers will skyrocket. Far from employment centers, property values will plummet, causing all sorts of fiscal disruption in those communities. In the long run, the poor will be forced out of major urban areas, where they can be more easily served. I'm coming up with these without any real thought. There have to be all sorts of ancillary penalties that aren't being considered.

But to address your post, they won't eliminate the gas tax. This will just be another layer of tax.

 

[magnifier661]

It's worse than a gas tax. You can generally choose to purchase a fuel efficient car or not (although the switchover costs are high). If you choose to drive a V-8, you pay more in gas tax than if you buy a hybrid. It's more difficult to change houses/locations than to change cars. This proposed tax is a tax on how far you drive, not just how much gas you consume.

It also means you're less likely to change jobs if the new job is further from your home. No one wants to pull their kids out of their school if they can help it. Property values and rents close to employment centers will skyrocket. Far from employment centers, property values will plummet, causing all sorts of fiscal disruption in those communities. In the long run, the poor will be forced out of major urban areas, where they can be more easily served. I'm coming up with these without any real thought. There have to be all sorts of ancillary penalties that aren't being considered.

But to address your post, they won't eliminate the gas tax. This will just be another layer of tax.

It would be an economic disaster. The issue with 2nd loans; with the assumption that they can leverage invest would be peanuts to the ramifications of a bill like this. Basically, you have absolutely no control on the amount of tax you pay for driving to work. Like you mentioned. It's much easier to buy a fuel efficient car, than it is to buy a home closer to work. And to top it off, there is absolutely no way the federal government will release a hundreds of trillion dollar revenue for their gas tax. It's just not fiscally possible.

What a fucking waste of paper to file a bill like this.