DaRizzle
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Oh, don't I feel special. I got your skirt ruffled.
Now beg again to be moderator!
You do have a way with words you sexy beast!
Oden, the next Sam Bowie?
- Thread starter KingSpeed
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You do have a way with words you sexy beast!
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Let's continue this in PM! That seems to be your favorite way to initiate contact.
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I questioned his seeming to call Oden a bust (which is what Sam Bowie is generally invoked to mean) and then basically saying he knew Oden wasn't a bust. It sounded like he then just created the thread to be provoking.
He answered my question. So it was a good interaction.
I think that's a mischaracterization. Oden scored pretty easily on Lopez, then drew fouls from Lopez and blocked Lopez. What he struggled with was defending the pick and roll, especially when Harris was getting into the paint at will. When Oden and Lopez were in direct competition, individually, Oden was pretty easily superior. He had trouble with his team defense tonight.
Is it concerning? Not really. He's a rookie, about 30 games into his career. I expect him to make lots of mistakes. If a year from now he's struggling with the same things, I'll be quite concerned.
rocketeer
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their stats per 36 minutes are very similar. oden with 12.7 and 11.2, bowie with 12.3 and 10.7. oden gets to the line more and turns it over less, while bowie has more assists and blocks and fouls less. field goal percentage is almost identical.
so i wouldn't exactly say that oden is having a much worse rookie season than bowie.
rocketeer
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this is correct. the only times lopez scored on oden were when oden came too far over to harris and left lopez wide open. that in itself is definitely a problem, but that is definitely not lopez dominating oden.
KingSpeed
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PapaG wasn't talking to you. He was talking to chrisinpdx.
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I questioned his seeming to call Oden a bust (which is what Sam Bowie is generally invoked to mean) and then basically saying he knew Oden wasn't a bust. It sounded like he then just created the thread to be provoking.
He answered my question. So it was a good interaction.
I think that's a mischaracterization. Oden scored pretty easily on Lopez, then drew fouls from Lopez and blocked Lopez. What he struggled with was defending the pick and roll, especially when Harris was getting into the paint at will. When Oden and Lopez were in direct competition, individually, Oden was pretty easily superior. He had trouble with his team defense tonight.
Is it concerning? Not really. He's a rookie, about 30 games into his career. I expect him to make lots of mistakes. If a year from now he's struggling with the same things, I'll be quite concerned.
I'm not saying I am unwilling to make excuses for Oden as well, but Nic Batum has almost made Oden look like an afterthought rookie the past two games, and Bayless finally showed that he's the next Devin Harris tonight.
KingSpeed
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EXACTLY what I posted in the "Why so little time for Greg?" thread:
Um... we gave the ball to Oden, he backed Lopez in and scored easily. Then, on the other end, he blocked Lopez. Lopez started stepping out for open jumpers while Oden tried to protect the basket from a driving Devin Harris. Lopez made a couple. Oden got yanked. Played a little at the top of the second half and that was it. Was never given a chance to really play. Yes, he played 12-13 minutes, but they were in two short stints where he never had a chance to get comfortable. Look at Bayless tonight. Tonight was the FIRST game all season where Bayless KNEW he would get big minutes. So he relaxed and dominated. Greg would do the same thing if we showed him some confidence, left him in the game, and gave him the damn ball.
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rocketeer
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had the team just gotten oden the ball when he got position, oden would have either gotten easy points or lopez would have been on the bench with foul trouble. then you don't really have to worry about josh boone knocking down jumpers.
of course a couple of times oden gave lopez layups.
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I'm not saying I am unwilling to make excuses for Oden as well, but Nic Batum has almost made Oden look like an afterthought rookie the past two games, and Bayless finally showed that he's the next Devin Harris tonight.
Batum has been the most impressive relative to expectations, since little was expected of him. Oden, in my opinion, has been the best of the four rookies objectively but since so much (unrealistically, but not unsurprisingly) was expected of him, he seems to be having a poor season.
His main problem, to me, is that he hasn't yet learned to play aggressively without fouling. Which leads to him playing actively and then sitting down quickly due to fouls, which leads to him being more passive so as not to draw fouls, which causes McMillan to pull him. Until he conquers that problem, he's going to seem extremely inconsistent.
KingSpeed
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Minstrel, really? Oden is having a better season than Rudy?? Really? I feel like Rudy has been involved in every game. I can't say that about Greg. Greg has a lot of potential but Rudy is currently an All Rookie First Team candidate and Oden is not. Not yet.
blazerboy30
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The biggest problem for Greg, right now, is that he is really, really bad at defending the pick-and-roll. Teams know that, and they directly attack him with it over and over.
Nate doesn't play much zone with the starters in, but I would be interested to see Greg getting some time playing zone with the starters. That would take him out of being attacked by the pick-and-roll, and he would be able to get some more minutes.
I don't necessarily think Nate should change his game plan to accomodate a rookie that has not proven anything yet, but I think it would help Greg get into the flow by allowing him to play for longer periods of time.
At some point, obviously, Greg is going to need to learn how to defend the pick-and-roll. But at this point, I would like to see him be able to just stay on the court, and get comfortable at the offensive end.
Nate doesn't play much zone with the starters in, but I would be interested to see Greg getting some time playing zone with the starters. That would take him out of being attacked by the pick-and-roll, and he would be able to get some more minutes.
I don't necessarily think Nate should change his game plan to accomodate a rookie that has not proven anything yet, but I think it would help Greg get into the flow by allowing him to play for longer periods of time.
At some point, obviously, Greg is going to need to learn how to defend the pick-and-roll. But at this point, I would like to see him be able to just stay on the court, and get comfortable at the offensive end.
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Rudy's been more valuable because he's played much more. Oden's been better when he's been on the court, IMO.
rocketeer
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what i don't understand with this is why nate is so quick to sit him from fouls. portland has a great backup center in joel and aldridge/frye/ike can see minutes down low if needed. it would make more sense to me if nate tells oden to play aggressively(but obviously try to avoid dumb fouls) and at this point just not worry about the foul trouble. if he picks up a few early fouls, who cares? let him play through it. if he picks up a couple more and then does have to sit for an extended period, the blazers have guys good enough to take his place where it isn't a huge deal.
KingSpeed
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But not being on the court has been his fault either by picking up fouls or not playing well enough for Nate to keep him in there.
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Oden was never in foul trouble tonight, was he?
I'll say this. Even in the Chicago game, Greg was left wide open at the FT line extended to lane off of a high post. He's a decent FT shooter, so why is he not shooting from there when given a 5' cushion. That stagnates the offense more than anybody dribbling IMO and could be seen as a reason for the slow starts.
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Yes, I'm not saying it wasn't his fault. I'm just saying when he is actually on the court, he has the most impact. Until he learns to stay on the court more, his value will be lower.
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No, his problem tonight was not handling the pick and roll well. Oden left Lopez wide open constantly. Part of that was his own confusion, part of that was that Sergio wasn't doing anything to keep Harris from getting right to the hoop and Oden would move to stop Harris.
Oden needs a lot of work on defending pick and rolls. In the post, he overwhelmed Lopez on offense and defense.
rocketeer
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he picked up 2 fouls in the first 7:30 of the game. joel immediately came in for him and oden didn't see the court again until the 2nd half.
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Ah. I didn't see much of the game. Anytime Oden plays another somewhat legit center, he seems to get into early foul trouble, and the team struggles in the first quarter.
Why not bring Joel back as the starter?
KingSpeed
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Really what? Have you read all the posts in the thread?
rocketeer
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well one of his fouls was just reaching out and grabbing or pushing harris who had blown by his defender(of course harris had already gotten his shot up so the foul was worthless).
but lopez didn't really do anything when oden actually was guarding him. problem was oden lost him a few times on the pick and roll for easy points.
number 10
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that's the first thing I looked at after reading the OP, you just beat me to it.
Hard to imagine Bowie having more TOs than Oden though, he must've been fairly raw as well. Odd, considering he was 23 and Oden is 21.
MIXUM
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of course the blazers took oden cuase blazer fans love the word potential. oden has potential....but durant is good now. Like cowherd said...you cant see who has IT and who doesnt. Durnat does...oden doesnt it.
Listen oden has been very very average and thats being nice. The same fans hoped outalw and sergio would develop but look how thas turned out. Problem with this board is...unless you praise every blazer player (esp oden) the you are a troll. Truth hurts....and the truth about oden is he stinks...right now. Will he get better. Yes but he wont be a bigger impact player then durant.
Listen oden has been very very average and thats being nice. The same fans hoped outalw and sergio would develop but look how thas turned out. Problem with this board is...unless you praise every blazer player (esp oden) the you are a troll. Truth hurts....and the truth about oden is he stinks...right now. Will he get better. Yes but he wont be a bigger impact player then durant.
B-Roy
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BengalDuck
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Because he's a rookie. Therefore, he's inconsistent. And especially, he's a rookie big man who generally take a lot longer to develop.
No, no he didn't. The pick'n'roll beat Oden a few times, but Harris is probably a top 5 finisher at the rim from the PG position and Oden simply couldn't contest the shot well enough without risking a foul.
I think you're full of shit. Just like you were full of shit when you came doom-and-glooming on the board when Oden got hurt against LA...trying to say he was out for the season or some bullshit.
Be something more than just a shock poster.