Off season targets

[PtldPlatypus]

If it’s Harris, Maxey and Thybulle with those picks it would be great.

flip those firsts and Nurk, Hart and salary filler to Utah for Gobert, then draft bpa with our pick

Maxey
Ant
Thybulle
Harris
Gobert

nice line up

In that scenario, why not keep Hart and just flip Harris for Gobert (which I think Utah would do)?

 

[Mediocre Man]

In that scenario, why not keep Hart and just flip Harris for Gobert (which I think Utah would do)?

Who’s our PF?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Who’s our PF?

Still have the TPE and MLE available to address that. Just saying that Harris doesn't feel like a piece worth keeping.

 

[RR7]

If it’s Harris, Maxey and Thybulle with those picks it would be great.

flip those firsts and Nurk, Hart and salary filler to Utah for Gobert, then draft bpa with our pick

Maxey
Ant
Thybulle
Harris
Gobert

nice line up

So...we're philly,, but with a worse C and SG? No thanks.

 

[HansenYang]

I can say very confidently that Portland REALLY wants Grant, but does not want to include our lottery pick this year.

I can also say with a lot of confidence that Chauncey has and will be recruiting for us. Guys around the league love him. Behind the scenes thus far, but a few players under contract with other teams love him.

And lastly, I can say with confidence that some influential scouts for Portland absolutely LOVE Ousmane Dieng

Dieng & Eason should be the 2 draft targets

 

[wizenheimer]

So...we're philly,, but with a worse C and SG? No thanks.

to be clear, the trade 'idea' that started this didn't include Thybulle....who is getting rated extremely high for a guy who who averaged 6 points and 2 rebounds. Yeah, I know, defense!....but one-way players are role players, and they need to play on teams with a couple of offensive all-stars, not on a team with none. Blazers need two-way players desperately; they don't need to trade defensive ineptitude for offensive ineptitude. It's bop-a-mole in reverse

also, that team would be Portland paying Gobert/Harris 80M year....a purgatory every bit as dead-end as the olshey-era

 

[blazerkor]

Dieng & Eason should be the 2 draft targets

I think if we end up at 7 we will trade back either for the Spurs 9 and 25 or the Hornets 13 and 15. I think Joe (assuming it's just Joe) will trade the 25th pick and our Bucks 2025 pick for Grant or he'll trade the 15th for Grant straight up. Either at 9 or 13 we should be able to get Eason, Dieng or Sochan who is another guy I like for us.

I think if Joe gets his way our starting lineup will be Dame, Ant, one of those three rookies, Grant, Nurk with Hart and Nas off the bench along with someone we sign with the TPMLE and whoever wins the other one or two rotation spot(s) out of Trendon, Greg, Keon, pick 36, Didi, hell maybe pick 57. Who knows?

Edit: I always fucking forget Justise. He will definitely be in that rotation.

 

[HansenYang]

I think if we end up at 7 we will trade back either for the Spurs 9 and 25 or the Hornets 13 and 15. I think Joe (assuming it's just Joe) will trade the 25th pick and our Bucks 2025 pick for Grant or he'll trade the 15th for Grant straight up. Either at 9 or 13 we should be able to get Eason, Dieng or Sochan who is another guy I like for us.

I think if Joe gets his way our starting lineup will be Dame, Ant, one of those three rookies, Grant, Nurk with Hart and Nas off the bench along with someone we sign with the TPMLE and whoever wins the other one or two rotation spot(s) out of Trendon, Greg, Keon, pick 36, Didi, hell maybe pick 57. Who knows?

Edit: I always fucking forget Justise. He will definitely be in that rotation.

If Portland gets the #2 pick & Detroit #4 or 5, I'd totally trade down & pick up Grant.... then trade down again & pick up Dieng & Eason

 

[Mediocre Man]

to be clear, the trade 'idea' that started this didn't include Thybulle....who is getting rated extremely high for a guy who who averaged 6 points and 2 rebounds. Yeah, I know, defense!....but one-way players are role players, and they need to play on teams with a couple of offensive all-stars, not on a team with none. Blazers need two-way players desperately; they don't need to trade defensive ineptitude for offensive ineptitude. It's bop-a-mole in reverse

also, that team would be Portland paying Gobert/Harris 80M year....a purgatory every bit as dead-end as the olshey-era

One way players are not always role players

Dame is a one way player. Is he a role player? Is CJ? Trae Young? Luka? Harden?

Also “Yeah, I know, defense” to describe an NBA all defensive team guy is a little insulting.


Until this fucking franchise starts caring about defense, it’s going nowhere.

So if it is destined for purgatory, which it may be, tell us the off season that gets us out of purgatory…..or at least starts that process

 

[Mediocre Man]

to be clear, the trade 'idea' that started this didn't include Thybulle....who is getting rated extremely high for a guy who who averaged 6 points and 2 rebounds. Yeah, I know, defense!....but one-way players are role players, and they need to play on teams with a couple of offensive all-stars, not on a team with none. Blazers need two-way players desperately; they don't need to trade defensive ineptitude for offensive ineptitude. It's bop-a-mole in reverse

also, that team would be Portland paying Gobert/Harris 80M year....a purgatory every bit as dead-end as the olshey-era

I completely agree about two way players. It’s what has been missing from this team for years

 

[TBpup]

If Portland gets the #2 pick & Detroit #4 or 5, I'd totally trade down & pick up Grant.... then trade down again & pick up Dieng & Eason

I love asset accumulation, but it seems we need to take a much of a shot as possible on getting a 'star'. To me, Grant doesn't meet that criteria, and I don't see it out of Dieng or Eason anytime soon even though I like both players.

 

[Blazinaway]

Dieng & Eason should be the 2 draft targets

I like those two and Sochan as well

 

[Pinwheel1]

I like those two and Sochan as well

At what point do we start thinking Sochan should be our first pick without trading down? In 2-3 years which PF will be the best in the group?
They all seem to have different strengths and weaknesses but assuming they will all improve on their game, who will end up being the best two-way player?
Could he be better than Smith, Banchero, and Chet in 3 years?

Or let's say those guys go 1-2-3 and we end up with the 4th pick, is Sochan, not the most versatile big on the board if we really value defense?
We all value what Simmons does on D, could Sochan do the same? Granted he does not have Simmons handles, but he does show the potential to be a better shooter. I think he will go higher than the current mocks have him. Where does he fall on our big board....if defense wins championships.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I think if we end up at 7 we will trade back either for the Spurs 9 and 25 or the Hornets 13 and 15. I think Joe (assuming it's just Joe) will trade the 25th pick and our Bucks 2025 pick for Grant or he'll trade the 15th for Grant straight up. Either at 9 or 13 we should be able to get Eason, Dieng or Sochan who is another guy I like for us.

I think if Joe gets his way our starting lineup will be Dame, Ant, one of those three rookies, Grant, Nurk with Hart and Nas off the bench along with someone we sign with the TPMLE and whoever wins the other one or two rotation spot(s) out of Trendon, Greg, Keon, pick 36, Didi, hell maybe pick 57. Who knows?

Edit: I always fucking forget Justise. He will definitely be in that rotation.

To me this is effectively trading the #7 pick for Grant.

If Cronin does this and tries to weasel his way out of admitting so by saying we traded down for a player we prefer.... he'd be more a used car salesman than Neil.

 

[blazerkor]

To me this is effectively trading the #7 pick for Grant.

If Cronin does this and tries to weasel his way out of admitting so by saying we traded down for a player we prefer.... he'd be more a used car salesman than Neil.

I think it's a way for him to salvage the plan that blew up in his face. Of course he's going to spin it that we got the guy we wanted in the draft and Grant who has been our target since Joe took over. I do think that it could be a bad thing and show us that Cronin is stubborn but I also think it could be alright. I think Sochan and Eason are really good. I especially like Sochan's aggressiveness on both ends of the court. I also have heard that our scouting staff has Dieng really highly rated... maybe they leaked that because of a plan to do this sort of thing.

The fact for me remains that Cronin fucked up the mid season trades and should not be our main decision maker heading into such an important draft but if he is I hope whatever he does works well.

 

[Hoopguru]

to be clear, the trade 'idea' that started this didn't include Thybulle....who is getting rated extremely high for a guy who who averaged 6 points and 2 rebounds. Yeah, I know, defense!....but one-way players are role players, and they need to play on teams with a couple of offensive all-stars, not on a team with none. Blazers need two-way players desperately; they don't need to trade defensive ineptitude for offensive ineptitude. It's bop-a-mole in reverse

also, that team would be Portland paying Gobert/Harris 80M year....a purgatory every bit as dead-end as the olshey-era

Thats why they need to target Murray. He one of the best two way 4/3 in the draft.

 

[wizenheimer]

One way players are not always role players

Dame is a one way player. Is he a role player? Is CJ? Trae Young? Luka? Harden?

Also “Yeah, I know, defense” to describe an NBA all defensive team guy is a little insulting.

it's not insulting...it's simply an acknowledgement of the situation in the NBA right now, and of Portland's situation as well

you say Dame & Trae & Luka & Harden are one-way players even though they are not only elite scorers but elite playmakers & initiators. Players like that have a ton more value than a one-way player whose only skill is defense but who is a bad shooter, terrible rebounder for his position, and not a playmaker. He needs to be on a team that has several offensive stars...like Philly.

look at this:



those were the all-star game rosters this season, but that also represents past all-star game rosters really well; and it represents the elite players in the league. Do you see any perimeter one-way player there whose one skill is defense? Gobert is all-defense but he's also an elite rim-protector and consistently a top-3 rebounder. Draymond is all-defense but he also has great handles and court vision and is an elite play-maker.

Thybulle has no other skill than perimeter defense and is offensively challenged. That's not saying that perimeter defense is unimportant, just that Thybulle has flaws and limitations that restrict his overall value. In other words, “Yeah, I know, defense”

Until this fucking franchise starts caring about defense, it’s going nowhere.

I agree, but the solution is not to over-correct in such an obviously ridiculous way. There needs to be balance between offense and defense and that hypothetical roster didn't have it, at all

Portland took a step in the right direction by firing Olshey. He barely cared about defense. He did accidentally assemble a good defensive roster in the 2017-18 season. That team was 8th in the NBA in defense while having a Dame/CJ starting back-court. The trick is to not have any other defensive sieves in the rotation

and speaking of "going nowhere" I'd say a pretty obvious definition of going nowhere is paying Gobert/Harris 80M year

So if it is destined for purgatory, which it may be, tell us the off season that gets us out of purgatory…..or at least starts that process

the first step of the "process" started on December 3rd when the Blazers fired Olshey. The 2nd step was dumping the 4 players who were hogging half of the payroll without adding an upside. There may be valid reasons to debate the incoming value those players were dumped for, but they were definitely "going nowhere" players. The next steps I don't know, and neither does anybody else who can't predict the future

it sure seems like some of you expected Portland to be able to trade away those 4 non-contender assets immediately for contender assets. That Portland could trade a used Honda Accord for a new Lexus. Doesn't seem like a realistic expectation. Portland was in a dead end. To back out of that dead end, turn around, and find a street with some upside might take a couple of years rather than a couple of minutes

 

[Mediocre Man]

it's not insulting...it's simply an acknowledgement of the situation in the NBA right now, and of Portland's situation as well

you say Dame & Trae & Luka & Harden are one-way players even though they are not only elite scorers but elite playmakers & initiators. Players like that have a ton more value than a one-way player whose only skill is defense but who is a bad shooter, terrible rebounder for his position, and not a playmaker. He needs to be on a team that has several offensive stars...like Philly.

look at this:

View attachment 47431

those were the all-star game rosters this season, but that also represents past all-star game rosters really well; and it represents the elite players in the league. Do you see any perimeter one-way player there whose one skill is defense? Gobert is all-defense but he's also an elite rim-protector and consistently a top-3 rebounder. Draymond is all-defense but he also has great handles and court vision and is an elite play-maker.

Thybulle has no other skill than perimeter defense and is offensively challenged. That's not saying that perimeter defense is unimportant, just that Thybulle has flaws and limitations that restrict his overall value. In other words, “Yeah, I know, defense”




I agree, but the solution is not to over-correct in such an obviously ridiculous way. There needs to be balance between offense and defense and that hypothetical roster didn't have it, at all

Portland took a step in the right direction by firing Olshey. He barely cared about defense. He did accidentally assemble a good defensive roster in the 2017-18 season. That team was 8th in the NBA in defense while having a Dame/CJ starting back-court. The trick is to not have any other defensive sieves in the rotation

and speaking of "going nowhere" I'd say a pretty obvious definition of going nowhere is paying Gobert/Harris 80M year



the first step of the "process" started on December 3rd when the Blazers fired Olshey. The 2nd step was dumping the 4 players who were hogging half of the payroll without adding an upside. There may be valid reasons to debate the incoming value those players were dumped for, but they were definitely "going nowhere" players. The next steps I don't know, and neither does anybody else who can't predict the future

it sure seems like some of you expected Portland to be able to trade away those 4 non-contender assets immediately for contender assets. That Portland could trade a used Honda Accord for a new Lexus. Doesn't seem like a realistic expectation. Portland was in a dead end. To back out of that dead end, turn around, and find a street with some upside might take a couple of years rather than a couple of minutes

The all star game is an offensive showcase

 

[wizenheimer]

The all star game is an offensive showcase

2020-21:



2019-20:



2018-19:



obviously, nobody is saying that that Thybulle is a top player. But out of those 45 names on the all-NBA teams, the names of "one-way" players appear 22 times. Offense matters more than defense, especially for individual players. Teams can scheme their way to solid defense, even if they have some poor defenders in the rotation. They can't scheme their way to a high 3pt% if they don't have good shooters, or to a high assist/turnover rate if they don't have good passers

but more than that, even assuming Philly would be willing to trade both Maxey & Thybulle, along with Harris, for Dame, which I seriously doubt to the point I'd say they wouldn't, it still doesn't make Portland any better that they were last season when they lost to Denver in the playoffs. They'd be better on defense, but be worse on offense

 

[Mediocre Man]

2020-21:

View attachment 47434

2019-20:

View attachment 47435

2018-19:

View attachment 47436

obviously, nobody is saying that that Thybulle is a top player. But out of those 45 names on the all-NBA teams, the names of "one-way" players appear 22 times. Offense matters more than defense, especially for individual players. Teams can scheme their way to solid defense, even if they have some poor defenders in the rotation. They can't scheme their way to a high 3pt% if they don't have good shooters, or to a high assist/turnover rate if they don't have good passers

but more than that, even assuming Philly would be willing to trade both Maxey & Thybulle, along with Harris, for Dame, which I seriously doubt to the point I'd say they wouldn't, it still doesn't make Portland any better that they were last season when they lost to Denver in the playoffs. They'd be better on defense, but be worse on offense

We don’t disagree often, but we do here

 

[Idog1976]

We should be looking in Bridges direction first, he's a better player with higher upside than Grant.

 

[Idog1976]

thanks for that MM

from all the different mock drafts, it looks like there is a good chance Dieng will be available when the Blazers pick, even if they drop to 7. Do you have any indication that the front office would choose Dieng over Grant if it came to that? Looking at the rankings, a couple have Dieng in the top-10; others not even in the top-20; some not even 1st round

I think it would be madness to draft Dieng with a top 10 pick. We need a PF for god's sake. He's only 6'9" and on most boards not in the top 20. That's a guy you make another trade to get a pick for, not use our top pick. Unless we trade down and try and get Dieng and Duren and then try and sign Miles Bridges as our PF. THAT would be interesting.

EDIT: I somehow was sure Miles was 6'10" so forget that whole part about him at PF.

 

[RR7]

I think it would be madness to draft Dieng with a top 10 pick. We need a PF for god's sake. He's only 6'9" and on most boards not in the top 20. That's a guy you make another trade to get a pick for, not use our top pick. Unless we trade down and try and get Dieng and Duren and then try and sign Miles Bridges as our PF. THAT would be interesting.

How is 6'9" not big enough to be a PF, but then you suggest Bridges at the 4, who is 6'6"?

 

[Idog1976]

How is 6'9" not big enough to be a PF, but then you suggest Bridges at the 4, who is 6'6"?

Well I thought he was 6'10" for some reason forget that holy smokes!

 

[Idog1976]

How is 6'9" not big enough to be a PF, but then you suggest Bridges at the 4, who is 6'6"?

Still anyone shorter than 6'10" is not someone I want at the PF unless they are truly elite and I don't think Dieng is the guy certainly not in the top 10. He'd be great at SF. I'm a big believer in size and yes I fully admit I screwed the pooch on Miles Bridges. I swear, I swear I looked within the past two weeks and saw he was 6'10.

 

[RR7]

Still anyone shorter than 6'10" is not someone I want at the PF unless they are truly elite and I don't think Dieng is the guy certainly not in the top 10. He'd be great at SF. I'm a big believer in size and yes I fully admit I screwed the pooch on Miles Bridges. I swear, I swear I looked within the past two weeks and saw he was 6'10.

No big deal! I've done that plenty of times.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

2020-21:

View attachment 47434

2019-20:

View attachment 47435

2018-19:

View attachment 47436

obviously, nobody is saying that that Thybulle is a top player. But out of those 45 names on the all-NBA teams, the names of "one-way" players appear 22 times. Offense matters more than defense, especially for individual players. Teams can scheme their way to solid defense, even if they have some poor defenders in the rotation. They can't scheme their way to a high 3pt% if they don't have good shooters, or to a high assist/turnover rate if they don't have good passers

but more than that, even assuming Philly would be willing to trade both Maxey & Thybulle, along with Harris, for Dame, which I seriously doubt to the point I'd say they wouldn't, it still doesn't make Portland any better that they were last season when they lost to Denver in the playoffs. They'd be better on defense, but be worse on offense

A great defensive player can't impact the game as well as a great offensive player, especially in the playoffs.

Think about it based on who has the ball; the offense can always give the ball to their best offensive player and run their offense through them. But if a team puts their best defender on the floor, the opposition can just pass to a different matchup and the defender is out of the play.

There is a legit reason the stars of the league provide more offense than defense.

I'm not saying the Blazers can contend with a horrific defense. This 25-29th ranked defense of the last couple years has no chance in the playoffs. Yes there needs to be a balance. But history and NBA strategy confirm your observation that a defensive specialist player does not provide the benefit to a team as an offensive specialist.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Still anyone shorter than 6'10" is not someone I want at the PF unless they are truly elite and I don't think Dieng is the guy certainly not in the top 10. He'd be great at SF. I'm a big believer in size and yes I fully admit I screwed the pooch on Miles Bridges. I swear, I swear I looked within the past two weeks and saw he was 6'10.

With the lack of talent the Blazers have worrying about a rookie contributing now at PF with a size under 6'10" is so irrelevant to where this team's talent is currently at.

The rookie could be 7'10" and win rookie of the year this year; and the Blazers still wouldn't contend.

We need multiple starting level players. Rookies even when showing tons of promise are almost never a quality starting level player. Once a rookie we take now is, there could be so much roster turnover we don't know if any member of this team, even Dame or Ant, will be here.

The Blazers just need to draft the BPA and figure out depth charts later, when they are a few moves away from contending. Its like your worried about which parking spot we will reserve on the end of our trip; but we are trying to peddle a bike from Portland to London.

 

[Idog1976]

With the lack of talent the Blazers have worrying about a rookie contributing now at PF with a size under 6'10" is so irrelevant to where this team's talent is currently at.

The rookie could be 7'10" and win rookie of the year this year; and the Blazers still wouldn't contend.

We need multiple starting level players. Rookies even when showing tons of promise are almost never a quality starting level player. Once a rookie we take now is, there could be so much roster turnover we don't know if any member of this team, even Dame or Ant, will be here.

The Blazers just need to draft the BPA and figure out depth charts later, when they are a few moves away from contending. Its like your worried about which parking spot we will reserve on the end of our trip; but we are trying to peddle a bike from Portland to London.

Well, I find that talented PF's are the rarest commodity in the league currently. I don't see how we draft BPA and get what we need. Are you suggesting we should take a PG and then automatically lose any value he might have by having him on the bench only to Jermaine On'neal him in the future for min value? We need tall guys we have short guys in spades and yes we need a rookie of the year All-Star. I'm pretty sure a Rookie LeBron would fit great on our team and vault us into immediate contention with Ant, Lillard and Nurk. So yeah we need a star. Disagree that we cannot find a big impact rookie and really, really disagree that size doesn't matter. Obviously I'm not suggesting the next LeBron is in this draft class. I'm saying you can't argue that no Rookie could help vault us into contention a 7'10" Rookie of the year would almost certainly do exactly that especially if we traded Nurk for a PF.

 

[Blazinaway]

Sochan has big time size at 6'9" and 230, and still 18 (turns 19 in 11 days. Could also play some small ball 5 and can guard 2-5, but a lot depends on what our FA plans are and we are all really blowin smoke as we will know a LOT more in a week when the lotto balls fly and we get some combine numbers as well.