Exclusive Official 2020 Draft Thread (1 Viewer)

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Obi Toppin thoughts....

Feel pretty confident he's good enough offensively to be a productive starter. Maybe even an all star. Very weird athlete....maybe the weirdest I've ever evaluated. Such a stark contrast between his elite run and jump athleticism and literally every other athletic trait (first step, hip turns, start/stop, change of direction etc.)

Hard worker. Was well coached in college and played in an NBA style system with good spacing which I think will have him very well prepared to translate his offense early on.

Think he's a player that wants to make the right play and help a team win. Unselfish player. Enjoyed watching him play which is a very short list for prospects in this class--although the system that Dayton ran offensively was a large part of that.

Physically, I worry about him defensively a lot which I'll get into, but I do think he's a fairly smart player positionally. Solid motor. Much like on the offensive end, I think he plays with the mentality to do what he can defensively to help his team.

That's probably worth a top 7 pick in this draft.

It's just hard for me to have them that high when I do think he'll be a tough player to fit other front court players around or be a large piece of a high level winning team. Those are guys that are always just going to be pushed down the board for me.

Obi question marks....

What position does he defend?

Played mainly center for Dayton. Maximizes his offensive value but lacks NBA center height/length/strength. Poor lower body strength (top heavy build). Moved easily. Worrisome defensive rebounding numbers.

Movement skills don't translate cleanly to the PF position. High center of gravity. Struggles changing direction or sliding laterally. Not sure how he's going to be effective guarding spread power forwards where he'll be forced into a lot more help and recover situations.

Team context will be very important for him. Ideally you want to pair him with another big that can both guard on the perimeter and protect the rim. Very few of those though and certain matchups will still be difficult, especially against teams with big centers.

If he's forced to play a lot of power forward, how does that affect his value offensively? Enough that it doesn't make up for his issues defensively? Does that force him into being primarily a small-ball 5 off the bench?

How good of a shooter will he ultimately be?

Still can be valuable offensively without being a high-level shooter, especially when playing the five. But still important in terms of fitting other front court players around him. Becomes more important if he indeed can't hold up at the center position.

Mechanics are pretty fluid. Release isn't always the same though, can get a bit yippy at times. Fairly small sample and was only an okay free throw shooter.

Does his post game translate at all?

Very good touch with both hands and comfortable scoring over either shoulder but lower body strength issues limit his ability to gain good position down low. Not a physical or power player. Not a foul drawer. Dayton did a good job rolling him / screening him into post-ups.

Although size / length/ lower body strength issues--and most importantly, how the NBA game is played--make it likely that it's not a huge part of his game at the NBA level, it should still be a valuable piece to have if teams choose to switch pnr to take away his roll game.
 
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Yeah Obi is probably the most interesting prospect in the draft. His strengths are incredible yet his weaknesses are big enough to question where he will fit in the nba. I see him being kinda like a Thomas Robinson type player honestly. Not in terms of skills or anything but really in how they dominated college but they fail to transition to the nba. But I think Obi might turn out to be alright in the right place. If he fall to us and we draft him I might be happy. I think that Toppin at PF spot next to Little and Collins in the future could be enough to cover his defensive game. With that being said I wouldn’t trade up to get Toppins and I wouldn’t draft him even if he fall cause I think there are better prospects we can get like Vassell, Bey, Patrick Williams, etc.
 
JDC said:
Obi Toppin thoughts....

Feel pretty confident he's good enough offensively to be a productive starter. Maybe even an all star. Very weird athlete....maybe the weirdest I've ever evaluated. Such a stark contrast between his elite run and jump athleticism and literally every other athletic trait (first step, hip turns, start/stop, change of direction etc.)

Hard worker. Was well coached in college and played in an NBA style system with good spacing which I think will have him very well prepared to translate his offense early on.

Think he's a player that wants to make the right play and help a team win. Unselfish player. Enjoyed watching him play which is a very short list for prospects in this class--although the system that Dayton ran offensively was a large part of that.

Physically, I worry about him defensively a lot which I'll get into, but I do think he's a fairly smart player positionally. Solid motor. Much like on the offensive end, I think he plays with the mentality to do what he can defensively to help his team.

That's probably worth a top 7 pick in this draft.

It's just hard for me to have them that high when I do think he'll be a tough player to fit other front court players around or be a large piece of a high level winning team. Those are guys that are always just going to be pushed down the board for me.

Obi question marks....

What position does he defend?

Played mainly center for Dayton. Maximizes his offensive value but lacks NBA center height/length/strength. Poor lower body strength (top heavy build). Moved easily. Worrisome defensive rebounding numbers.

Movement skills don't translate cleanly to the PF position. High center of gravity. Struggles changing direction or sliding laterally. Not sure how he's going to be effective guarding spread power forwards where he'll be forced into a lot more help and recover situations.

Team context will be very important for him. Ideally you want to pair him with another big that can both guard on the perimeter and protect the rim. Very few of those though and certain matchups will still be difficult, especially against teams with big centers.

If he's forced to play a lot of power forward, how does that affect his value offensively? Enough that it doesn't make up for his issues defensively? Does that force him into being primarily a small-ball 5 off the bench?

How good of a shooter will he ultimately be?

Still can be valuable offensively without being a high-level shooter, especially when playing the five. But still important in terms of fitting other front court players around him. Becomes more important if he indeed can't hold up at the center position.

Mechanics are pretty fluid. Release isn't always the same though, can get a bit yippy at times. Fairly small sample and was only an okay free throw shooter.

Does his post game translate at all?

Very good touch with both hands and comfortable scoring over either shoulder but lower body strength issues limit his ability to gain good position down low. Not a physical or power player. Not a foul drawer. Dayton did a good job rolling him / screening him into post-ups.

Although size / length/ lower body strength issues--and most importantly, how the NBA game is played--make it likely that it's not a huge part of his game at the NBA level, it should still be a valuable piece to have if teams choose to switch pnr to take away his roll game.
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This post seems to high-light how weak this draft is; so many weaknesses on a guy who might go top 7?
 
If we look for the future I believe Williams might be the choice for me. I do like Vassell but for 2 guard position but he would be playing behind CJ and Trent. But who ever we pick it will be for the future.
 
James lamphear said:
If we look for the future I believe Williams might be the choice for me. I do like Vassell but for 2 guard position but he would be playing behind CJ and Trent. But who ever we pick it will be for the future.
Click to expand...
Exactly! The team when healthy is actually pretty deep. Plus we will probably sign a few quality role players this offseason so our draft should be based around the future cause next year will and should be the last year of the Dame/CJ era if we don’t win a champ. I love Williams potential. Vassell would be nice but I don’t know how much better he would be than Trent. A guy that’s rising on my board is Omer Yurtseven. He play a lot like Nurk/Steven Adams. He would be a steal in the the 2nd round
 
JDC said:
Obi Toppin thoughts....

Feel pretty confident he's good enough offensively to be a productive starter. Maybe even an all star. Very weird athlete....maybe the weirdest I've ever evaluated. Such a stark contrast between his elite run and jump athleticism and literally every other athletic trait (first step, hip turns, start/stop, change of direction etc.)

Hard worker. Was well coached in college and played in an NBA style system with good spacing which I think will have him very well prepared to translate his offense early on.

Think he's a player that wants to make the right play and help a team win. Unselfish player. Enjoyed watching him play which is a very short list for prospects in this class--although the system that Dayton ran offensively was a large part of that.

Physically, I worry about him defensively a lot which I'll get into, but I do think he's a fairly smart player positionally. Solid motor. Much like on the offensive end, I think he plays with the mentality to do what he can defensively to help his team.

That's probably worth a top 7 pick in this draft.

It's just hard for me to have them that high when I do think he'll be a tough player to fit other front court players around or be a large piece of a high level winning team. Those are guys that are always just going to be pushed down the board for me.

Obi question marks....

What position does he defend?

Played mainly center for Dayton. Maximizes his offensive value but lacks NBA center height/length/strength. Poor lower body strength (top heavy build). Moved easily. Worrisome defensive rebounding numbers.

Movement skills don't translate cleanly to the PF position. High center of gravity. Struggles changing direction or sliding laterally. Not sure how he's going to be effective guarding spread power forwards where he'll be forced into a lot more help and recover situations.

Team context will be very important for him. Ideally you want to pair him with another big that can both guard on the perimeter and protect the rim. Very few of those though and certain matchups will still be difficult, especially against teams with big centers.

If he's forced to play a lot of power forward, how does that affect his value offensively? Enough that it doesn't make up for his issues defensively? Does that force him into being primarily a small-ball 5 off the bench?

How good of a shooter will he ultimately be?

Still can be valuable offensively without being a high-level shooter, especially when playing the five. But still important in terms of fitting other front court players around him. Becomes more important if he indeed can't hold up at the center position.

Mechanics are pretty fluid. Release isn't always the same though, can get a bit yippy at times. Fairly small sample and was only an okay free throw shooter.

Does his post game translate at all?

Very good touch with both hands and comfortable scoring over either shoulder but lower body strength issues limit his ability to gain good position down low. Not a physical or power player. Not a foul drawer. Dayton did a good job rolling him / screening him into post-ups.

Although size / length/ lower body strength issues--and most importantly, how the NBA game is played--make it likely that it's not a huge part of his game at the NBA level, it should still be a valuable piece to have if teams choose to switch pnr to take away his roll game.
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I personally feel like Obi is a slightly larger Jayson Tatum, with a more polished inside game but not as dynamic on the perimeter.
 
GhostOfPGA said:
I personally feel like Obi is a slightly larger Jayson Tatum, with a more polished inside game but not as dynamic on the perimeter.
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I think John Collins is a pretty good analog as far as value.

There's some stylistic differences on offense and John was the better offensive rebounder and foul drawer, but I think they'll function very similarly in NBA offense.

Defensively I think Obi is better IQ wise and likely has the higher standing reach but John's movement skills were/are better and has more functional strength. Both mainly due to lower center of gravity and a bigger butt. Better defensive rebounder....John is also just a more fluid mover overall.

Liked Obi's film a lot more than John when he was at Wake Forest but hard to say how much of that is just being on a better team running a better system.
 
James lamphear said:
If we look for the future I believe Williams might be the choice for me. I do like Vassell but for 2 guard position but he would be playing behind CJ and Trent. But who ever we pick it will be for the future.
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Then maybe it should be a Eurostash... like LEANDRO BOLMARO!!!!
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Then maybe it should be a Eurostash... like LEANDRO BOLMARO!!!!
Click to expand...

I actually would love Bolmaro. He’s a mix of Ingles and Ginobili. We could trade down for Dallas #18 and #31. Get whatever wing is left at #18, probably Patrick Williams or maybe Bey, get Bolmaro at #31 and Omer Yurtseven with our pick
 
damianlillard said:
I actually would love Bolmaro. He’s a mix of Ingles and Ginobili. We could trade down for Dallas #18 and #31. Get whatever wing is left at #18, probably Patrick Williams or maybe Bey, get Bolmaro at #31 and Omer Yurtseven with our pick
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Philly is another interesting trade down partner.

If Vassell isn't there and they really like a guy like Maxey (who I think has the guard skillset that fits pretty well for them imo).... This deal seems somewhat realistic.

#14, #44

For

#22 (Patrick Williams), #34 (Leondro Bolmaro), #37 (Xavier Tillman)

I bet Philly really values those early 2nds though so not likely.
 
JDC said:
Philly is another interesting trade down partner.

If Vassell isn't there and they really like a guy like Maxey (who I think has the guard skillset that fits pretty well for them imo).... This deal seems somewhat realistic.

#14, #44

For

#22 (Patrick Williams), #34 (Leondro Bolmaro), #37 (Xavier Tillman)

I bet Philly really values those early 2nds though so not likely.
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I would love that trade. I think Philly may want to trade up to draft Nesmith or Vassell cause they’re both terrific shooter. Just curious, what is it about Tillman that you like? I actually haven’t scouted him a whole lot but I love to hear your thoughts about him. Also if we did have a draft like that imagine Simons/Trent/Little/Williams/Collins with Bolmaro off the bench. That team could be very dangerous especially if they live up to their potential
 
damianlillard said:
I would love that trade. I think Philly may want to trade up to draft Nesmith or Vassell cause they’re both terrific shooter. Just curious, what is it about Tillman that you like? I actually haven’t scouted him a whole lot but I love to hear your thoughts about him. Also if we did have a draft like that imagine Simons/Trent/Little/Williams/Collins with Bolmaro off the bench. That team could be very dangerous especially if they live up to their potential
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Tillman.... He's just a smart player. Can't really jump and a bit undersized. But can finish, pass and defend. Really strong. Great feel for space and timing in pnr as finisher and passer. Complements dynamic guards.

Shooting projection isn't great, but think he can be valuable without it.

Think less physically gifted, but smarter Derrick Favors. Can start in a pinch but likely more of a + impact 3rd big on good teams.
 
JDC said:
Obi Toppin thoughts....

Feel pretty confident he's good enough offensively to be a productive starter. Maybe even an all star. Very weird athlete....maybe the weirdest I've ever evaluated. Such a stark contrast between his elite run and jump athleticism and literally every other athletic trait (first step, hip turns, start/stop, change of direction etc.)

Hard worker. Was well coached in college and played in an NBA style system with good spacing which I think will have him very well prepared to translate his offense early on.

Think he's a player that wants to make the right play and help a team win. Unselfish player. Enjoyed watching him play which is a very short list for prospects in this class--although the system that Dayton ran offensively was a large part of that.

Physically, I worry about him defensively a lot which I'll get into, but I do think he's a fairly smart player positionally. Solid motor. Much like on the offensive end, I think he plays with the mentality to do what he can defensively to help his team.

That's probably worth a top 7 pick in this draft.

It's just hard for me to have them that high when I do think he'll be a tough player to fit other front court players around or be a large piece of a high level winning team. Those are guys that are always just going to be pushed down the board for me.

Obi question marks....

What position does he defend?

Played mainly center for Dayton. Maximizes his offensive value but lacks NBA center height/length/strength. Poor lower body strength (top heavy build). Moved easily. Worrisome defensive rebounding numbers.

Movement skills don't translate cleanly to the PF position. High center of gravity. Struggles changing direction or sliding laterally. Not sure how he's going to be effective guarding spread power forwards where he'll be forced into a lot more help and recover situations.

Team context will be very important for him. Ideally you want to pair him with another big that can both guard on the perimeter and protect the rim. Very few of those though and certain matchups will still be difficult, especially against teams with big centers.

If he's forced to play a lot of power forward, how does that affect his value offensively? Enough that it doesn't make up for his issues defensively? Does that force him into being primarily a small-ball 5 off the bench?

How good of a shooter will he ultimately be?

Still can be valuable offensively without being a high-level shooter, especially when playing the five. But still important in terms of fitting other front court players around him. Becomes more important if he indeed can't hold up at the center position.

Mechanics are pretty fluid. Release isn't always the same though, can get a bit yippy at times. Fairly small sample and was only an okay free throw shooter.

Does his post game translate at all?

Very good touch with both hands and comfortable scoring over either shoulder but lower body strength issues limit his ability to gain good position down low. Not a physical or power player. Not a foul drawer. Dayton did a good job rolling him / screening him into post-ups.

Although size / length/ lower body strength issues--and most importantly, how the NBA game is played--make it likely that it's not a huge part of his game at the NBA level, it should still be a valuable piece to have if teams choose to switch pnr to take away his roll game.
Click to expand...

How do you feel about the myriad comparisons of Toppin to Amar'e Stoudemire? At a surface level, it seems reasonable (though Toppin seems to have some potential as a three-point shooter whereas Amar'e basically never shot any).
 
JDC said:
Tillman.... He's just a smart player. Can't really jump and a bit undersized. But can finish, pass and defend. Really strong. Great feel for space and timing in pnr as finisher and passer. Complements dynamic guards.

Shooting projection isn't great, but think he can be valuable without it.

Think less physically gifted, but smarter Derrick Favors. Can start in a pinch but likely more of a + impact 3rd big on good teams.
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Okay thank you for your thoughts. At first glance he’s more like Hickson to me. To me if a big man is undersized they need to be able to shoot 3s otherwise they’re gonna get shut down real quick. Like if swanigan could shoot a respectable 3 point game he would actually be decent but since he doesn’t he can’t do much. See what I am trying to say?
 
Minstrel said:
How do you feel about the myriad comparisons of Toppin to Amar'e Stoudemire? At a surface level, it seems reasonable (though Toppin seems to have some potential as a three-point shooter whereas Amar'e basically never shot any).
Click to expand...
Think Amar'e moved better. More of a power athlete. Drew more fouls. Better handling the ball and absorbing contact. Better rebounder.

Obi definitely has more modern qualities to his game though...mostly due to era imo although Obi probably still the better passer all things equal.
 
damianlillard said:
Okay thank you for your thoughts. At first glance he’s more like Hickson to me. To me if a big man is undersized they need to be able to shoot 3s otherwise they’re gonna get shut down real quick. Like if swanigan could shoot a respectable 3 point game he would actually be decent but since he doesn’t he can’t do much. See what I am trying to say?
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Yup.

Just think Tillman is far superior IQ wise and defensively than your typical undersized play finishing big.
 
damianlillard said:
I actually would love Bolmaro. He’s a mix of Ingles and Ginobili. We could trade down for Dallas #18 and #31. Get whatever wing is left at #18, probably Patrick Williams or maybe Bey, get Bolmaro at #31 and Omer Yurtseven with our pick
Click to expand...
What I see a lot of positive on offense a very good passer can hit the 3 and keeps his dribble alive. Defense moves his feet well but one negative after his man passes he looses his man and he standing in no man land. But at 19 years of age that's can be corrected with experience. Now has you said if we can trade down yes but even at 14 especially how weak this draft is and especially your not expecting him to play for couple years then you can look at him at 14. Especially who ever we draft he not going to expect to get quality time for couple years.
 
MY 2020 DRAFT BIG BOARD:
  1. Anthony Edwards
  2. James Wiseman
  3. Obi Toppin
  4. Onyeka Okongwu
  5. Killian Hayes
  6. Tyrese Haliburton
  7. Deni Avdija
  8. Jahmi'us Ramsey
  9. Lamelo Ball
  10. Jaden McDaniels
  11. Saddiq Bey
  12. Tyrese Maxey
  13. Aleksej Pokusevski
  14. Kira Lewis Jr.
  15. Cole Anthony
  16. Theo Maledon
  17. Isaac Okoro
  18. Precious Achiuwa
  19. Aaron Nesmith
  20. Killian Tillie
  21. Isaiah Stewart
  22. Patrick Williams
  23. Elijah Hughes
  24. Nico Mannion
  25. Devin Vassell
  26. Josh Green
  27. Leandro Bolmaro
  28. Jordan Nwora
  29. Nick Richards
  30. Georgios Kalaitzakis
 
*Creator of PIPM (Player Impact Plus-Minus)

Also includes a tab showing how this class stacks up against prospects from the last three drafts.

 
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Not a bad list. Here is mine
1. Anthony Edwards
2. James Wiseman
3. Onyeka Okongwu
4. Deni Avdija
5. Obi Toppin
6. Killian Hayes
7. Lamelo Ball
8. Isaac Okoro
9. Tyrese Haliburton
10. Saddiq Bey
11 Devin Vassell
12 Theo Maledon
13 Aaron Nesmith
14 Cole Anthony
15 Tyrese Maxey
16 Aleksej Pokusevski
17 Patrick Williams
18 Kira Lewis jr
19 Josh Green
20 Jahmi’us Ramsey
21 RJ Hampton
22 Jalen Smith
23 Tres Jones
24 Precious Achiuwa
25 Vernon Carey jr
26 Leandro Bolmaro
27 Tyrell Terry
28 Omer Yurtseven
29 Jaden McDaniels
30 Isaiah Stewart
 
I know nothing about incoming players. I thought people were saying Ball had a chance at #1 during the season. Why is he so low on your guys' boards?
 
KSF-ERIC said:
I know nothing about incoming players. I thought people were saying Ball had a chance at #1 during the season. Why is he so low on your guys' boards?
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For me it was more that I don’t think he has good of a chance of being an all star player as the guys above him. He will turn out like his brother on the offensive end but with literally no defense on the other end.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
I know nothing about incoming players. I thought people were saying Ball had a chance at #1 during the season. Why is he so low on your guys' boards?
Click to expand...
Shot 39% from the field and 25% from 3 in Australia. Shot is pretty broken. Basically people think he has a high ceiling because he has good ball handling ability, vision, and he's 6'7. But the issues for me are the fact that he's a below average athlete, has a frail frame, isn't a good defender and doesn't have the defensive instincts that Lonzo has, is a below average shooter from all areas of the floor, doesn't get to the line, has good vision but pretty mediocre basketball IQ.
 
damianlillard said:
Not a bad list. Here is mine
1. Anthony Edwards
2. James Wiseman
3. Onyeka Okongwu
4. Deni Avdija
5. Obi Toppin
6. Killian Hayes
7. Lamelo Ball
8. Isaac Okoro
9. Tyrese Haliburton
10. Saddiq Bey
11 Devin Vassell
12 Theo Maledon
13 Aaron Nesmith
14 Cole Anthony
15 Tyrese Maxey
16 Aleksej Pokusevski
17 Patrick Williams
18 Kira Lewis jr
19 Josh Green
20 Jahmi’us Ramsey
21 RJ Hampton
22 Jalen Smith
23 Tres Jones
24 Precious Achiuwa
25 Vernon Carey jr
26 Leandro Bolmaro
27 Tyrell Terry
28 Omer Yurtseven
29 Jaden McDaniels
30 Isaiah Stewart
Click to expand...
Surprised you have McDaniels so low.
 
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