OFFICIAL AROUND THE NBA THREAD - August 2021

[Mr. Robot]

Would you treat a grown man like that? That's the real question.

I wouldn't treat a HUMAN BEING like that. Nothing is so important to degrade another human being for.

I am not commenting any further. I just wanted to say that.

theyre bball players, its part of coaching and its not just xs & os what youre teaching your players, theres much more than that

for example, you cant treat athletes & someone who does a regular job the same, theres big difference

 

[Mediocre Man]

theyre bball players, its part of coaching and its not just xs & os what youre teaching your players, theres much more than that

for example, you cant treat athletes & someone who does a regular job the same, theres big difference

Treating people with respect is universal. Yelling at a player to get his attention or calm him down is vastly different from belittling that player.

Stopping practice to call out someone who made a mistake is different than stopping practice to call someone pathetic for making the mistake

 

[illmatic99]

i can't believe people here are actually justifying Kidd's actions. Like it's OK to repeatedly yell at and bench Giannis about a defensive mistake even after getting proven that it wasn't his mistake? This is worse than Sarge, and that guy was a fucking clown.

It has nothing to do with eras or how soft people supposedly are now. It has to do with leadership and pushing the right buttons. Kidd just seems like a mad man who yelled for the sake of yelling.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Feels like Kidd was teaching his players "when you have control of someone, you can make them do very unpleasant things" - not unlike how he has treated women.

It's a terrible message. OTOH, it may have helped most of the players who probably immediately thought "I'm not gonna be like this asshole."

 

[MickZagger]

i can't believe people here are actually justifying Kidd's actions. Like it's OK to repeatedly yell at and bench Giannis about a defensive mistake even after getting proven that it wasn't his mistake? This is worse than Sarge, and that guy was a fucking clown.

It has nothing to do with eras or how soft people supposedly are now. It has to do with leadership and pushing the right buttons. Kidd just seems like a mad man who yelled for the sake of yelling.

Apparently sarge’s tactics are somewhat effective. He just took a young team to the eastern conference finals after taking the reigns over at midseason

 

[illmatic99]

Apparently sarge’s tactics are somewhat effective. He just took a young team to the eastern conference finals after taking the reigns over at midseason

he has admittedly softened since his time here. he got fired from Indy for lack of playoff success and for acting like Kidd apparently did.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Apparently sarge’s tactics are somewhat effective. He just took a young team to the eastern conference finals after taking the reigns over at midseason

FWIW…..He said in an interview that he was not THAT coach any longer

 

[Mr. Robot]

Treating people with respect is universal. Yelling at a player to get his attention or calm him down is vastly different from belittling that player.

Stopping practice to call out someone who made a mistake is different than stopping practice to call someone pathetic for making the mistake

i disagree

its harsh, but it will serve them (players) well if theyre smart

 

[Mediocre Man]

i disagree

its harsh, but it will serve them (players) well if theyre smart

It just goes against everything a leader is supposed to be

 

[Minstrel]

there are harsh coaches (people who dont understand would call them different names, like you did)

they dont hate you, they want you to become the best player you can be and you should embrace it

I don't think they hate their players. But throwing screaming fits still makes them less than adults.

 

[Mr. Robot]

It just goes against everything a leader is supposed to be

not really, there are harsh successful & unsuccessful coaches and there are player friendly successful & unsuccessful coaches

i can understand that players dont like harsh coaches, but ultimately they have to understand its for their good, its not lack of respect or anything like that, its nothing personal

i would translate it as: "whatever it takes", be ready to give everything you got and be ready for some harsh/ugly times

nba players have to much empowerment, which is unacceptable, they do whatever they want, but european best players cant do that, it would end miserably for them

 

[JoshuaHall]

It’s funny because there is a podcast out right now:

The player (Compton) talks about the coach (Pelini) telling them how they’re all worthless shits except Lavonte David after a game against Michigan — not in a negative manner either. (The player talking about the moment.)

Interesting parallel.

 

[handiman]

nba players have to much empowerment, which is unacceptable, they do whatever they want, but european best players cant do that, it would end miserably for them

Is that really true, though? I feel like Doncic could probably get away with whatever he wants.

 

[Mr. Robot]

I don't think they hate their players. But throwing screaming fits still makes them less than adults.

this is the best & most successful european coach of all time, heres example of his coaching style

 

[Mr. Robot]

Is that really true, though? I feel like Doncic could probably get away with whatever he wants.

nope

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

For several years during the 1980’s I had season tickets at MSG and the Bernard King / Jon Starks / Mark Jackson / Patrick Ewing - era Knicks.

Hubie Brown was a coach during those years and I have not experienced such an asshole of a coach (other than my Senior year at Evergreen High School back in 79…LOL). Hubie was non-stop berating of his players each and every minute of the game. The worst!

 

[calvin natt]

I’ve coached a lot and been around a lot of coaches like some of you. There are guys like Kidd everywhere. It’s unnecessary. It’s old school coaching. To me, it’s lazy. As a coach you are in control and in charge. You can yell and belittle without repercussions until you get fired. So you can yell and MF guys and lead by fear. It’s dumb. That’s not coaching that’s just forcing guys to do shit because you own them. Zero respect for those guys. It’s not about toughness.

 

[Mediocre Man]

not really, there are harsh successful & unsuccessful coaches and there are player friendly successful & unsuccessful coaches

i can understand that players dont like harsh coaches, but ultimately they have to understand its for their good, its not lack of respect or anything like that, its nothing personal

i would translate it as: "whatever it takes", be ready to give everything you got and be ready for some harsh/ugly times

nba players have to much empowerment, which is unacceptable, they do whatever they want, but european best players cant do that, it would end miserably for them

Harsh is very different from abuse

 

[calvin natt]

I remember Dave Twardzik and I talking about coaching. He said the best coach he ever had (sorry Dr Jack) was his college coach at Old Dominion. Sonny Allen. He introduced me to him (RIP) many years ago and he was the nicest, kindest guy. Dave specifically said in his entire time with Sonny he never heard him swear. He was able to control the team and coach guys without yelling and screaming. Now that’s extreme but that’s a good coach.

 

[Mr. Robot]

Harsh is very different from abuse

i dont consider it abuse in sports, but in regular life yes

like when parents beat their child, its disciplinary measures

you could say they abuse soldiers in army, but in reality, its part of the process

 

[SIeepwalker]

Yeah I totally agree with you. For those of us that predate Millennials, I can see the impulse to say, "I was coached like that and I turned out alright." Or some bullshit like that. For Millennials and maybe even younger there could be some allure to romancing "when men were men" or some other fucked up notion.

The fact is these were full grown men and by the accounts in Giannis's book they weren't being treated in a way that showed any respect at all. That is not an effective way to coach, manage or treat another human being. When you take into account that Sanders already had a history of problems with mental health and substance abuse, it makes the actions even more disturbing but probably not as disturbing as some of the responses about it in here.

I do think that people can change and I don't think that this should disqualify Kidd from coaching. I don't know if his past of domestic violence should, that is more troubling to me. What all of it means, to me, is that Jason Kidd should be watched very carefully by the Mavs, the league and the players association to ensure that he isn't still using methods that could be emotionally injurious to players.

I've had coaches that would scream and tear into you for anything. It's bullshit and has never motivated me or made me play better one bit.

 

[SIeepwalker]

like when parents beat their child, its disciplinary measures

Yes, this post right here officer

 

[Strenuus]

theyre bball players, its part of coaching and its not just xs & os what youre teaching your players, theres much more than that

for example, you cant treat athletes & someone who does a regular job the same, theres big difference

So you would treat a human being like that, because some goal is more important.

Thats all I needed to know.. no further questions.

 

[handiman]

nope

1) Doncic was 16 in that clip. What he could get away with today has little to do with that far back when he was barely established.

2) The coach was animated in a timeout, but I didn't see or "hear" Doncic getting a tongue lashing, so I have no idea what I'm supposed to be taking from that example.

 

[Mr. Robot]

1) Doncic was 16 in that clip. What he could get away with today has little to do with that far back when he was barely established.

2) The coach was animated in a timeout, but I didn't see or "hear" Doncic getting a tongue lashing, so I have no idea what I'm supposed to be taking from that example.

theres big difference in european & nba coaching style and jason kidd seems like european coach in some aspects and those things are normal in europe

playes in europe arent empowered, coaches are and i remember what mirza teletovic (former nba player and best power forward in europe at one point) said... when he came to the nba, he saw player shooting long range contested three and said if that player did that in europe (with coach dusko ivanovic), he would get driven away from the arena... as good as you are, you dont have ultimate freedom like nba stars have, its all about team bball, not personal numbers

 

[handiman]

theres big difference in european & nba coaching style and jason kidd seems like european coach in some aspects and those things are normal in europe

playes in europe arent empowered, coaches are and i remember what mirza teletovic (former nba player and best power forward in europe at one point) said... when he came to the nba, he saw player shooting long range contested three and said if that player did that in europe (with coach dusko ivanovic), he would get driven away from the arena... as good as you are, you dont have ultimate freedom like nba stars have, its all about team bball, not personal numbers

Again, current Doncic flies in the face of all of that, and the video you posted does not appear to refute it despite being too long ago to be relevant.

 

[calvin natt]

theres big difference in european & nba coaching style and jason kidd seems like european coach in some aspects and those things are normal in europe

playes in europe arent empowered, coaches are and i remember what mirza teletovic (former nba player and best power forward in europe at one point) said... when he came to the nba, he saw player shooting long range contested three and said if that player did that in europe (with coach dusko ivanovic), he would get driven away from the arena... as good as you are, you dont have ultimate freedom like nba stars have, its all about team bball, not personal numbers

And which is the best league in the world? Who just won gold without its best players?

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[royo]

I disagree. But I'll leave it at that.

This forum is place of discussion. I'll see you tomorrow at nine and then again on Christmass

I didn't go into the story much. Just checked this tweeter, when Zaza said they didn't give enough effort. I think, that is the problem. You have to coach bunch of (almost) grown up BIG mf-eckrs and half of them is on the side of work, with only some of them with great work ethic. Other half don't really give a shit at times, like Blazer team did on many occasions last few seasons. To coach your team into success, you have to put those lazy players in order. If not, they will cancer the attitude of the team.
Calling names is whole different story and Kidd is most probably not the greatest man for "work with people" position.

I had grown up builders on my work to manage and, believe me, project would go nowhere if I was Stotss for them. Sometimes, when you find you worker drink round the corner third time, being nice doesn't work.

I say it is always two sides of one story.

 

[Mr. Robot]

Again, current Doncic flies in the face of all of that, and the video you posted does not appear to refute it despite being too long ago to be relevant.

i dont know if the coaches would yell at him, or choke him, or hit him, but current doncic wouldnt be allowed to do what nba stars are doing today

its like having a harsh parents, you as a child cant do crazy stuff cause you know there will be consequences

europe & nba are two different worlds and being a star in europe doesnt give you empowerment to do whatever you want