OFFICIAL AROUND THE NBA THREAD - July 2021

[blazerkor]

that's fine. I just don't believe that the dickering started in the last few days. For instance, Portland and Philly had their seasons end weeks ago

Jones opting in may be important. That's a good bit of salary filler in a large trade and even good salary leverage in a smaller one-for-one trade. I think we can all agree that Olshey's preference would be to do something like Jones and a first, or two, for somebody like Larry Nance Jr. It's pretty certain Olshey is still reluctant to trade CJ

Nance wouldn't alter Portland's trajectory but it might be the kind of deal that would cover Neil's ass for a while. Allow him to punt the ball down field for a few more months and take some pressure off

I hope he's not reluctant to trade CJ if there is value in it. If he still thinks he can build a contending roster with the Dame/CJ back court that would be so crushing... especially if he thinks adding Norm to that mess makes sense... when we just saw that it doesn't work and have seen for five years that Dame and CJ don't work.

 

[wizenheimer]

All of that said, when I saw that DJ was opting in now, I kind of thought that might mean there was a deal on the table that is to Neil's liking for a CJ/DJ centered package.

 

[B-Roy]

please add why if there are less minutes available at the 1/2 than at 3/4 presently?

Positive trade value.

 

[blazerkor]

it just seems like some of you guys are laying the groundwork to trash the guy before he even gets a chance to do something. Do you know for sure what he's offering/planning?

he has admittedly said he is going to be more aggressive this year. Let's see if that was just blowing smoke also before killing him.

I'm just fretting. If Neil gets us a forward for CJ that fits the team better and upgrades the roster and gets Norm to re-sign. Then makes a good signing with the taxpayer MLE. I will be stoked. If Neil sits on his hands and Norm walks I'll be distraught. If Neil sits on his hands and re-signs Norm to a reasonable deal, I'll just be in wait and see mode but still probably fretting.

 

[B-Roy]

it just seems like some of you guys are laying the groundwork to trash the guy before he even gets a chance to do something. Do you know for sure what he's offering/planning? How do you know he won't trade CJ?

he has admittedly said he is going to be more aggressive this year. Let's see if that was just blowing smoke also before killing him.

Also, if he can land Nance in a trade centered around Jones, that's a DAMN GOOD deal for us.

Laying the groundwork to trash him. As if he’s not laid a groundwork for 9 years.

Until he actually swings a meaningful deal I will continue to assume the worst.

 

[blazerkor]

 

[wizenheimer]

it just seems like some of you guys are laying the groundwork to trash the guy before he even gets a chance to do something. Do you know for sure what he's offering/planning?

he has admittedly said he is going to be more aggressive this year. Let's see if that was just blowing smoke also before killing him.

do you understand that for myself and many others around here, after 9 years of Olshey-speak, there is no benefit of the doubt extended?

I mean, 3 months ago Dame was a Blazer for life. In 3 weeks, he could demand a trade when he returns from Tokyo. That buck stops on Olshey's desk.

 

[illmatic99]

do you understand that for myself and many others around here, after 9 years of Olshey-speak, there is no benefit of the doubt extended?

I mean, 3 months ago Dame was a Blazer for life. In 3 weeks, he could demand a trade when he returns from Tokyo. That buck stops on Olshey's desk.

if by training camp, we show up with largely the same roster, i'll be carrying pitchforks right next to you. but I want to see what he does first.

 

[lawai'a]

Positive trade value.

over the value of the utility of DJJ as a fit to our roster? i don't see it. Chicago has only a guarantee of $5mil so the team option in regards to tax monies owed might be of value if it is declined before the draft. but we aren't over the tax. flip him to someone that is before the draft for an asset? could see it. his fit here before the deadline and before the rest of the roster components is known makes it hard to justify again.

 

[B-Roy]

over the value of the utility of DJJ as a fit to our roster? i don't see it. Chicago has only a guarantee of $5mil so the team option in regards to tax monies owed might be of value if it is declined before the draft. but we aren't over the tax. flip him to someone that is before the draft for an asset? could see it. his fit here before the deadline and before the rest of the roster components is known makes it hard to justify again.

Trade value around the League. As in you’re attaching assets to DJJ, not getting any back.

 

[RR7]

if by training camp, we show up with largely the same roster, i'll be carrying pitchforks right next to you. but I want to see what he does first.

But you can show up here and bitch every day and still carry the pitchforks at the end!

 

[lawai'a]

Trade value around the League. As in you’re attaching assets to DJJ, not getting any back.

but value to the team as a $10mil roster spot is minimal and not worth it. DJJ is of value today and next season as a bench player filling the roll of back up 3/4 in a new system supposedly utilizing Nurk who has always had an affinity of increasing the offensive value of cutters from harkless to laymen et. al. DJJ on the roster presently trumps any potenial value of Sato as a trade asset IMHO. he put up 8 and 4 with 1.6 stocks of added value teamed with bam in Miami in 22 minutes a night. currently we don't have an additional 20 minutes a night available at the 1/2.

 

[B-Roy]

but value to the team as a $10mil roster spot is minimal and not worth it. DJJ is of value today and next season as a bench player filling the roll of back up 3/4 in a new system supposedly utilizing Nurk who has always had an affinity of increasing the offensive value of cutters from harkless to laymen et. al. DJJ on the roster presently trumps any potenial value of Sato as a trade asset IMHO. he put up 8 and 4 with 1.6 stocks of added value bam in Miami in 22 minutes a night. currently we don't have an additional 20 minutes a night available at the 1/2.

I don’t think your sentiment is shared around the league.

 

[lawai'a]

I don’t think your sentiment is shared around the league.

i care little for their sentiments and am focused on the blazers. next season DJJ wil be the same expiring contract as Sato. for trades. 1-1 is in the eye of the beholder, though gauging competing front offices values on players is impossible to know.

 

[wizenheimer]

if by training camp, we show up with largely the same roster, i'll be carrying pitchforks right next to you. but I want to see what he does first.

"if by the start of the season, we show up with largely the same roster, i'll be carrying pitchforks right next to you. but I want to see what he does first"

"if by the trade deadline, we show up with largely the same roster, i'll be carrying pitchforks right next to you. but I want to see what he does first"

"if by the draft, we show up with largely the same roster, i'll be carrying pitchforks right next to you. but I want to see what he does first"

"if by the training camp, we show up with largely the same roster, i'll be carrying pitchforks right next to you. but I want to see what he does first"

2017-->2018-->2019-->2020-->2021-->2022?

 

[illmatic99]

"if by the start of the season, we show up with largely the same roster, i'll be carrying pitchforks right next to you. but I want to see what he does first"

"if by the trade deadline, we show up with largely the same roster, i'll be carrying pitchforks right next to you. but I want to see what he does first"

"if by the draft, we show up with largely the same roster, i'll be carrying pitchforks right next to you. but I want to see what he does first"

"if by the training camp, we show up with largely the same roster, i'll be carrying pitchforks right next to you. but I want to see what he does first"

2017-->2018-->2019-->2020-->2021-->2022?

people who want to bitch about everything will keep finding reasons to complain i suppose.

 

[tester551]

if by training camp, we show up with largely the same roster, i'll be carrying pitchforks right next to you. but I want to see what he does first.

What makes you think that this time will be any different than all the other times before?

 

[TBpup]

hahaha, alright my bad then. But you know exactly what you were "implying."


He's unrestricted. He is eligible for the same contract everywhere-- we can't really pay him more than other teams, can we?

Yes.....to get on with it. Not that other inferred nonsense. Don't give up your day job to be a mind reader.

 

[illmatic99]

What makes you think that this time will be any different than all the other times before?

I really think Dame's threats contributed to it. The problem is Olshey's mismangement of the payroll and the 17 draft have left the warchest barren so that even IF he chose to be more aggressive this year, he doesn't have the pieces to make a big deal. Recall this from Quick:

Within the Blazers — both on the business side and the basketball side — Lillard’s call for accountability and action has been met with the appropriate alarm. No one yet is convinced he will request a trade, and as one executive put it, “I don’t think he wants to leave. He has built an empire here. But we have to assume he is leaving to make sure he is not leaving.”

Dame has never so publicly been forthcoming of his call to action.

Also, the public perception of Olshey has gone full 180 from where it was a year ago when everyone (including the people constantly bitching about him here) were giving him praise for his summer moves (even if they choose to forget that they did). It's not just this forum either. He has seemingly become public enemy #1 and Quick and others have reported that the pressure is fully on him now. That, and his seat clearly being hot will in my estimation make him offer more in trades than he has been willing to in the past.

But incessantly complaining about his moves when moves are JUST starting to be made makes it seem like people already are ready to burn his house down before he does anything.

 

[wizenheimer]

people who want to bitch about everything will keep finding reasons to complain i suppose.

and people who believe excuses will keep swallowing them

does it do any good to label each other in mildly insulting fashion? I don't think so but I can play that game

 

[wizenheimer]

But incessantly complaining about his moves when moves are JUST starting to be made makes it seem like people already are ready to burn his house down before he does anything.

go back in this thread and find where I was complaining about moves he hasn't made so far, this off-season

what got our particular discussion going was when you said two things: one was that you didn't want Olshey to make his best offer right at the beginning; and the other was when you said Portland had limited assets

my response was that I believed discussions had advanced past initial offers; and that a team with limited assets couldn't really play it coy....they would need to push most of their chips in right away to compete

you then started trashing people for bitching about Olshey before he'd done anything. Please point out people bitching about Olshey's off-season prior to you complaining about people bitching

 

[tester551]

I really think Dame's threats contributed to it. The problem is Olshey's mismangement of the payroll and the 17 draft have left the warchest barren so that even IF he chose to be more aggressive this year, he doesn't have the pieces to make a big deal. Recall this from Quick:

Dame has never so publicly been forthcoming of his call to action.

Also, the public perception of Olshey has gone full 180 from where it was a year ago when everyone (including the people constantly bitching about him here) were giving him praise for his summer moves (even if they choose to forget that they did). It's not just this forum either. He has seemingly become public enemy #1 and Quick and others have reported that the pressure is fully on him now. That, and his seat clearly being hot will in my estimation make him offer more in trades than he has been willing to in the past.

But incessantly complaining about his moves when moves JUST starting to be made makes it seem like people already are ready to burn his house down before he does anything.

I think you are glossing over two important points here.

1) You correctly identified that "Olshey's missmanagement" of the payroll & drafting has put us in this position. If he was the architect who got us here, why would you trust his vision/capability to get beyond this point?

2) Yes, last offseason was one of Olshey's best relative to his history... so some credit is deserved. However that still pales to what is needed to make this team a contender. It's like the kid who is getting Ds & Fs in school finally getting a B. That's better than his historical track record (good job!) - but it's not top tier level.

Again - what gives you confidence that Olshey is able to make the moves necessary?

 

[illmatic99]

I think you are glossing over two important points here.

1) You correctly identified that "Olshey's missmanagement" of the payroll & drafting has put us in this position. If he was the architect who got us here, why would you trust his vision/capability to get beyond this point?

2) Yes, last offseason was one of Olshey's best relative to his history... so some credit is deserved. However that still pales to what is needed to make this team a contender. It's like the kid who is getting Ds & Fs in school finally getting a B. That's better than his historical track record (good job!) - but it's not top tier level.

Again - what gives you confidence that Olshey is able to make the moves necessary?

i don't think i glossed over them as much as i have come to terms with the reality of our situation. It would take nothing short of a miracle to make this a contending roster. I guess also that it's the hopeful fanatic in me to want something to be done-- seeing Phoenix and Milwaukee in the finals also contributed to it perhaps.

But I also don't understand what good it would do to throw shade at Olshey for moves that Memphis and New Orleans just made. I don't want to see the worst in people. We also have no choice but to give him a shot, no?

 

[Natebishop3]

I swear to god if Neil runs it back with the same team...

 

[illmatic99]

go back in this thread and find where I was complaining about moves he hasn't made so far, this off-season

what got our particular discussion going was when you said two things: one was that you didn't want Olshey to make his best offer right at the beginning; and the other was when you said Portland had limited assets

my response was that I believed discussions had advanced past initial offers; and that a team with limited assets couldn't really play it coy....they would need to push most of their chips in right away to compete

you then started trashing people for bitching about Olshey before he'd done anything. Please point out people bitching about Olshey's off-season prior to you complaining about people bitching

and people who believe excuses will keep swallowing them

does it do any good to label each other in mildly insulting fashion? I don't think so but I can play that game

where did i trash anybody? where did i make excuses for Olshey? i think you are just as guilty for assuming and implying things as much as you say I am.

I don't really want to engage with you on this topic again because 1) you clearly hate the guy and pick and choose how you interpret his actions to see the absolute worst in him (which is fine-- i too had an irrational level of hate for Stotts so i get it, and 2) we are ultimately on the same page of wanting to win but we both realize the pieces just aren't there unless something crazy happens.

 

[wizenheimer]

people who want to bitch about everything will keep finding reasons to complain i suppose.

since you are accusing me of bitching about Olshey's current off-season, I thought I should point out the posts I made in the last few pages, prior to you trashing me for bitching, and have you point out to me where it was I was bitching...that would be helpful:

I'd imagine Olshey has been talking to other teams, probably a lot. But I'd also imagine he is not making any serious offers that involve significant risk. That's his M.O. and it sure looks to me like Seattle isn't putting any pressure on him to budge him off of his long held biases on the roster

if there wasn't so much at stake it would be kind of comical. Portland needs to make some deals to give Dame a better roster. But other teams are 'waiting' to see if Dame demands a trade so the market for those non-Dame deals is stalled. Dame is the supertanker stuck in the Suez. I suppose this is not an original dilemma, but the Blazers may be stuck with the worst kind of GM to navigate that situation

sure...Portland can pay him more, and if he re-signs with Portland, it's entirely possible they will

The Knicks could make a 20M/year offer and Powell's agent could say to Olshey that Powell will sign with NY because there are better opportunities there and NY wants him as the starting SG. So Olshey counters by offering 27M/year

other teams might already be doing that realizing there is a lot of competition for all-star level players

the strategy of playing it cool might work in normal circumstances. But if players like Simmons and Siakam and Beal and SGA get moved before Dame gets back from Japan, and moved for packages the Blazers could have arguably matched, it could be the worst outcome for Dame & the Blazers

Dame wants the front office to match the sense of urgency he feels. If several all-star level players are moved and it appears Olshey is sitting on his hands....yikes!

I don't think Dame was talked off of any ledge. I do not believe anything Olshey says to him will matter. For Dame, after 9 seasons, the test is actions, not words. My take is that Dame was at the same spot after that Vegas meeting as he was before

my hunch is that Dame doesn't trust anything Olshey says to him. The difference now is that Dame believes Seattle will not hold Olshey accountable. I don't think it was coincidence that Dame started registering major discontent after the Olshey presser on firing Stotts

obviously...that all IMO

did I say that?

I'm saying I believe several of these trade negotiations have been going on for weeks and if Olshey is playing it cagey he won't have decent traction. If Portland has "limited assets" then they need to move more of them onto the table, early, in order to compete

that's fine. I just don't believe that the dickering started in the last few days. For instance, Portland and Philly had their seasons end weeks ago

Jones opting in may be important. That's a good bit of salary filler in a large trade and even good salary leverage in a smaller one-for-one trade. I think we can all agree that Olshey's preference would be to do something like Jones and a first, or two, for somebody like Larry Nance Jr. It's pretty certain Olshey is still reluctant to trade CJ

Nance wouldn't alter Portland's trajectory but it might be the kind of deal that would cover Neil's ass for a while. Allow him to punt the ball down field for a few more months and take some pressure off

and it was in reply to that post you said:

it just seems like some of you guys are laying the groundwork to trash the guy before he even gets a chance to do something
.

so again....what was it I said in those posts that warranted you changing the discussion to a complaint about bitching?

and by the way, if my Olshey history has bearing, and I'd grant it does...for chrissakes why should anybody ignore 9 years of Olshey's history and expect things to be different now. And by extension, not lay 100% of the blame for the current mess on him

 

[Labinot41]

literally zero faith in Olshey. Just hopefully Billups can make the team better by coaching

 

[illmatic99]

sigh.

 

[illmatic99]

since you are accusing me of bitching about Olshey's current off-season, I thought I should point out the posts I made in the last few pages, prior to you trashing me for bitching, and have you point out to me where it was I was bitching...that would be helpful:

and it was in reply to that post you said:


so again....what was it I said in those posts that warranted you changing the discussion to a complaint about bitching?

dude why do you get so upset here? and where did i trash you? Sit back for a second. Was this post quoting yourself all this many times necessary?

 

[wizenheimer]

dude why do you get so upset here? and where did i trash you? Sit back for a second. Was this post quoting yourself all this many time necessary?

you are basically saying you believe this off-season will be different so don't make judgements. That's fine. But where was it I made judgements about Olshey's current off-season...other that mentioning his history?

I mean, if you wanted to continue the discussion we were having before you changed it to people "bitching", I would have probably pointed out that the only trade so far has involved an exchange of draft picks. meaning that right now, the draft is probably motivating a lot of trade discussions and Portland can't leverage any firsts in this draft