One trade people will hate but we need to make.

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Denny Crane said:
The Bulls have the #2 defense in the league, starting 32 year old Boozer, 33 year old Hinrich, and 34 year old Dunleavy.

Hinrich used to be good, but PGs light him up regularly these days.

Lillard will improve, but you also need a good scheme that works with shitty defenders.
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Since Stotts will teach as much defense as Diantoni may as well just get good defenders. Plus Chicago is good cause of the system and Gibson, Butler and especially Noah.
 
cmeese47 said:
Only reason to consider dealing Dame is because he is not a two way player, you get more of the same from Irving.
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No, that's false. He tries on defense, he just not very good yet. That's the whole point. Two way players at least try on defense. You aren't giving him any credit for at least trying.

He's only a second year player and he will improve. Go back and look at Conley's numbers when he was a second year player. His defensive rating was exactly the same as Dame.
 
cmeese47 said:
Since Stotts will teach as much defense as Diantoni may as well just get good defenders. Plus Chicago is good cause of the system and Gibson, Butler and especially Noah.
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The Bulls won last game against Toronto by 2. In Q1 and Q3 where Boozer plays and Taj doesn't, the Bulls outscored the Raptors 53-42.

Go figure.

Two guys can't guard all 5 opponents.

I'm with those who think the trade idea is insane.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
By the title you gave this thread you clearly understood your trade idea was going to spin up some people. Getting upset that people think this trade idea is far from credible, logical or even good seems a little odd to me.
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Blast the trade all day but do so on topic. Posting stupid trades involving Durant or Lebron coming to Portland is just a vain attempt to derail the thread.
 
HCP said:
This is the only thing I can think of. They are like roaches......
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I've tried. In replY, I get the "everybody has an opinion" bullshit, or even worse, nothing but an emoticon in response from the mods. Quite the business model. Alienate your long-time members while supporting new posters who think each mental bowel movement they have deserves a new thread.

This thread was even authored as a board troll just how it is titled.
 
OK I feel like throwing in my .02

This board has changed a lot in the past 3 months or so. Personally I like the influx of new posters (even with some bugging the shit out of me). But what I didn't realize until HCP spelled it out is that some old time regulars don't seem to post as much anymore . . . and that sucks.

I'm not around enough to know if posters are not around or if I just happen to be missing them when I jump on line. But when skimming through the threads and during the time I am on here, these days it feels different and I think I just figured out why. It's not just an influx of new posters but an out-flux of some old time posters.

I hope the old time posters who now lurk, jump back in and get more active. I think the influx of new poster will sort itself out. Personalities and agenda will be identified in time (smart group of posters on here) and hopefully the addition of new posters will eventually lead itself to more quality Blazer talk . . . and maybe even some more gatherings with new faces.

I have a Dream . . . . . . .
 
Nate4Prez said:
Skimmed over this thread but I did not see one poster point out the fact that the OP made this post the day after the tread deadline had passed. If that's not trolling I don't know what is. New Forum Rule: No "Trade Suggestion Posts" until after the NBA Finals. Thank you.
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That was half the damn point of the thread, it was foreshadowing, Lillard gets destroyed in the playoffs, Portland loses in the first round so Portland makes a deal to shore up their defense.

Conley is an All NBA defensive player and is posting a 21 plus PER with similar USG to Lillard. I personally think he is a better player than Lillard.

As far as Lillard trying on defense I respect that but he is just not getting it done.

Lastly, because the deal would have to be completed in the off season it be contingent on playoff success or lack thereof.
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
OK I feel like throwing in my .02

This board has changed a lot in the past 3 months or so. Personally I like the influx of new posters (even with some bugging the shit out of me). But what I didn't realize until HCP spelled it out is that some old time regulars don't seem to post as much anymore . . . and that sucks.

I'm not around enough to know if posters are not around or if I just happen to be missing them when I jump on line. But when skimming through the threads and during the time I am on here, these days it feels different and I think I just figured out why. It's not just an influx of new posters but an out-flux of some old time posters.

I hope the old time posters who now lurk, jump back in and get more active. I think the influx of new poster will sort itself out. Personalities and agenda will be identified in time (smart group of posters on here) and hopefully the addition of new posters will eventually lead itself to more quality Blazer talk . . . and maybe even some more gatherings with new faces.

I have a Dream . . . . . . .
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The people who stopped posting are the same people who were screaming out our record any time someone offered a criticism of the team. Now those same people have suddenly disappeared while the team isn't doing so well. It's interesting because it was the opposite when the team was doing very well. The trolls "sky is falling" trolls disappeared when the team was on an 11 game win streak. From this I can draw the conclusion that the "haters" don't want to post when the team is doing well, and the "homers" don't want to post when the team is doing poorly.
 
cmeese47 said:
That was half the damn point of the thread, it was foreshadowing, Lillard gets destroyed in the playoffs, Portland loses in the first round so Portland makes a deal to shore up their defense.

Conley is an All NBA defensive player and is posting a 21 plus PER with similar USG to Lillard. I personally think he is a better player than Lillard.

As far as Lillard trying on defense I respect that but he is just not getting it done.

Lastly, because the deal would have to be completed in the off season it be contingent on playoff success or lack thereof.
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And you're being extremely short sighted if you don't see that Lillard has a much higher ceiling than Conley. He's in his second year. At this stage in his career, Conley was horrible. Memphis was trying to dump him for Travis Outlaw (at least that was the rumor.) Seriously, did you look at the stats I linked you?

You're comparing Lillard to a guy who is playing in his seventh season. Of course he's going to be better in some areas.

Conley averaged 10.9 ppg, 4.3 assists, 3.4 rebounds, and a 14.3 PER.

Dame is averaging 20.9 ppg, 5.7 assists, 3.6 rebounds, and a 19.1 PER.

Hell, I'll even spot you a few years. I'll compare their stats when Conley was 23 (Dame's age.) He had been in the league four years at this point.

Conley averaged 13.7 ppg, 6.5 assists, 3.0 rebounds, and a 15.9 PER.
 
Natebishop3 said:
The people who stopped posting are the same people who were screaming out our record any time someone offered a criticism of the team. Now those same people have suddenly disappeared while the team isn't doing so well. It's interesting because it was the opposite when the team was doing very well. The trolls "sky is falling" trolls disappeared when the team was on an 11 game win streak. From this I can draw the conclusion that the "haters" don't want to post when the team is doing well, and the "homers" don't want to post when the team is doing poorly.
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Maybe that's it. I always thought HCP and others posted on here through thick and thin and I don't remember this much hate last year at the end of the season. But I miss gaps of time on here and am not the best authority on who posts and doesn't post. I just read HCP's comment and thought I was on to something. Maybe not.
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
Maybe that's it. I always thought HCP and others posted on here through thick and thin and I don't remember this much hate last year at the end of the season. But I miss gaps of time on here and am not the best authority on who posts and doesn't post. I just read HCP's comment and thought I was on to something. Maybe not.
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Last year nobody thought the team was going to do well. At one point we had the best record in the league and I think a lot of people bought into it. The team has come falling back to earth and is playing at about the level that many people thought they'd be at before the season. It's been hard for some people to adjust their expectations.
 
cmeese47 said:
Portland Trades Damian Lillard, Wesley Matthews and Victor Claver to Memphis

Memphis Trades Mike Conley, and Tony Allen to Portland.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lbttz3t

I would even throw in a 2018 pick if needed to get the deal done although the straight up deal would be more ideal.

Why do I trade Lillard? Defense. I love Damian but the kids defense is suspect at best he is a dynamic scorer but to win in this league especially in the playoffs we need defense. Conley is a great player in his own regard he can score, pass but mostly his defense elevates him above Lillard in my opinion.

Why do I trade Matthews? I also really like the grit that Wesley provides this team and his three point shooting this year has been terrific but I need Conley and Matthews helps make the salaries match and he should be a valuable enough piece as a scorer and as an expiring contract to convince the Grizzlies to make this deal.

Why do I trade Claver? He won’t play in my rotation so I added him for some cap flexibility.

Why does Memphis do the deal? Conley has a great contract and Allen has provided the grit the team needs in the playoffs to be a threat but the team’s window is closing. Gasol, Randolph, Prince are all expiring contracts next year. Lillard provides long term flexibility for the team as his rookie scale contract opens up lots of potential cap space. In addition, Marc Gasol’s post defense would help hide Lillard’s defense weakness. Matthews would be an upgrade over Lee and Allen at SG, in addition he would be an easily tradeable contract should Memphis decide to blow it up before the deadline next season. The nightlife and the duo of Gasol and Lillard will attract interest in free agents and should help this team remain competitive beyond just next season. If all that is not enough than a future first round pick would provide extra incentive.

Portland seems to have CJ penciled in as SG if that is to be his spot they need to clear room for him. A combo of McCollum and Allen would be great at SG, CJ could come in and provide the offensive spark and perimeter shooting the team needs while Allen could take over defensively.

Conley, Allen, Batum, Aldridge, and Lopez would be a top 10 defensive team and Portland would still be able to score.

I believe this team would give us a much better chance of making a run in the playoffs.

Thoughts, hate messages, bring them on.
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It's interesting to see the win/loss difference. I figured we'd get killed on that one. However, we actually improve.
 
Natebishop3 said:
And you're being extremely short sighted if you don't see that Lillard has a much higher ceiling than Conley. He's in his second year. At this stage in his career, Conley was horrible. Memphis was trying to dump him for Travis Outlaw (at least that was the rumor.) Seriously, did you look at the stats I linked you?

You're comparing Lillard to a guy who is playing in his seventh season. Of course he's going to be better in some areas.

Conley averaged 10.9 ppg, 4.3 assists, 3.4 rebounds, and a 14.3 PER.

Dame is averaging 20.9 ppg, 5.7 assists, 3.6 rebounds, and a 19.1 PER.

Hell, I'll even spot you a few years. I'll compare their stats when Conley was 23 (Dame's age.) He had been in the league four years at this point.

Conley averaged 13.7 ppg, 6.5 assists, 3.0 rebounds, and a 15.9 PER.
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Yes Lillard has a higher ceiling but how long will it take to reach or is this his ceiling with slight improvements in efficiency and defense? I love Lillard know trading a young piece with his upside is a major risk and personally I would be okay keeping him but I do not believe this team as situated is a title contender. Additionally, I do not foresee the team changing much in the future.

Say LA, Lopez and Matthews all resign after next season The team remains virtually identical and it is up to Leonard, McCollum, Robinson to make significant improvements. I just do not see this team as situated becoming a title contender. Does this move do enough, I have no idea but I certainly think changing up the team if we fail again in the playoffs is worth discussing even if it means trading someone like Lillard or Aldridge as foolish or unpopular as it may seem.
 
HCP said:
I putting down 70 hour work weeks this time of year......I tend to talk more hoops from May-October FAMS.
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HCP, does your job with the Blazers really take that much time during the season, or are there other projects? I'd be interested to know how the truck crew spends its time. No offense, I always assumed it was a few hours of set-up, the game, the post-game, then cleanup and shutdown. What else is there?
 
maxiep said:
HCP, does your job with the Blazers really take that much time during the season, or are there other projects? I'd be interested to know how the truck crew spends its time. No offense, I always assumed it was a few hours of set-up, the game, the post-game, then cleanup and shutdown. What else is there?
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Well, Mrs. HCP does honor two-for-one coupons for all Blazers Broadcasting employees...
 
Natebishop3 said:
Better question, would you trade Dame for Kyrie Irving?

There were rumblings that Irving wants out of Cleveland. I'm not saying I would do it, because I'm not really sold on Irving, but I'm curious what others think.
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I think Irving is more talented, but I think Lillard may be the better leader. Hence, my vote is "no".
 
My thoughts after reading the thread in its entirety:

HCP - Good to see you posting!

This trade makes Batum have to pick up the scoring A LOT... Conley isn't a legit #2 scorer, so we're going to have a lot of games that ended up like Wednesday night (we're not getting 30+ from our bench every night, and Conley isn't going to offset a bad LMA enough to have a chance to win like Dame could, even with the poor team record when Dame scores 30+.) I understand the want of defense, but I truly believe it's a personnel problem that sits in the seats in suits... not the actual team. Under no circumstances should we trade our future for a middling package of people that most likely won't make us "good enough" to make a deep run in the playoffs.

Do you need great defense in the playoffs? Sure. But you also need 2 legit scorers to make sure you score more than you give up... and the drop off most nights from LA to Batum is not going to counteract the defense that you want.

Patience is a virtue.
 
cmeese47 said:
Yes Lillard has a higher ceiling but how long will it take to reach or is this his ceiling with slight improvements in efficiency and defense? I love Lillard know trading a young piece with his upside is a major risk and personally I would be okay keeping him but I do not believe this team as situated is a title contender. Additionally, I do not foresee the team changing much in the future.

Say LA, Lopez and Matthews all resign after next season The team remains virtually identical and it is up to Leonard, McCollum, Robinson to make significant improvements. I just do not see this team as situated becoming a title contender. Does this move do enough, I have no idea but I certainly think changing up the team if we fail again in the playoffs is worth discussing even if it means trading someone like Lillard or Aldridge as foolish or unpopular as it may seem.
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The problem is this, Dame is arguably better than Conley right now, and he hasn't hit his ceiling. That's why it's a bad trade. He's only 23 and he will only get better. I can see mortgaging the future by trading guys like CJ, Robinson, etc, but not Dame. Not for someone like Conley. You only trade Lillard if it's for a clear upgrade, and Conley is NOT a clear upgrade. Neither Conley, nor Allen, is as young or as talented as Lillard. The only way I trade Lillard right now is for an equally young and talented player, like Irving, who wants out of his current situation. Irving could be a top five player in the league. I'm not sure Lillard is ever going to be that good. You gamble that Irving will continue to improve because he has the kind of ceiling that Durant and LeBron have. Dame most likely does not.
 
Natebishop3 said:
The problem is this, Dame is arguably better than Conley right now, and he hasn't hit his ceiling. That's why it's a bad trade. He's only 23 and he will only get better. I can see mortgaging the future by trading guys like CJ, Robinson, etc, but not Dame. Not for someone like Conley. You only trade Lillard if it's for a clear upgrade, and Conley is NOT a clear upgrade. Neither Conley, nor Allen, is as young or as talented as Lillard. The only way I trade Lillard right now is for an equally young and talented player, like Irving, who wants out of his current situation. Irving could be a top five player in the league. I'm not sure Lillard is ever going to be that good. You gamble that Irving will continue to improve because he has the kind of ceiling that Durant and LeBron have. Dame most likely does not.
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Nate, are you really trying to have a serious discussion about trading Lillard for Conley?
 
Natebishop3 said:
The people who stopped posting are the same people who were screaming out our record any time someone offered a criticism of the team. Now those same people have suddenly disappeared while the team isn't doing so well. It's interesting because it was the opposite when the team was doing very well. The trolls "sky is falling" trolls disappeared when the team was on an 11 game win streak. From this I can draw the conclusion that the "haters" don't want to post when the team is doing well, and the "homers" don't want to post when the team is doing poorly.
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Not really the case entirely. I pretty much have stopped offering opinions because it instantly turns into an argument.

To me, that is what has changed in the forum over the last several months.
 
The other item that isn't touched upon is how well each PG fits the team system. Lillard is a magnificent fit for Stotts' system. Conley wouldn't fit nearly as well.

It was a brave attempt to start discussion. It may have been trolling, it may have been honest. Bottom line, however, is it would be a pretty dumb move.
 
SlyPokerDog, you're a moron. ;)
 
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I would personally attack SlyPokerDog.
 
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Mediocre Man said:
Not really the case entirely. I pretty much have stopped offering opinions because it instantly turns into an argument.

To me, that is what has changed in the forum over the last several months.
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I personally think the team's early success and recent struggles are what caused the problems. When was the last time the team looked as good as it did? A lot of people bought into it and truly believed that we were ready to contend. A few of us saw the problems with the bench and the unsustainable shooting percentages. There has been a lot of fighting because the team polarized the two sides of the fence. I think if the team had started out playing around .600 ball, and was around 5th, we wouldn't have seen most of this fighting. Instead, they played way over their heads and people argued over whether it would last.
 
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