Notice Oregon bill cracks down on racially motivated 911 calls

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MarAzul said:
I don't think the new law prevents making a 911 call because someone looks suspicious.
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It prevents making a 911 call because someone looks suspicious if the only reason they have for feeling the person looks suspicious is that they're not white.
 
Minstrel said:
It prevents making a 911 call because someone looks suspicious if the only reason they have for feeling the person looks suspicious is that they're not white.
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See how easy it is y'all?
 
dviss1 said:
Had whoever called the police (AGAIN for no reason) would've known I have recourse then that could've prevented the call.
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So, you think the problem is fixed by black people taking the following action. Someone calls 911 on them, the police come (guns drawn?) and you file a counter charge of discrimination. You show up in court, black of course, and you win your claim? The world is a better place!!!!

I don't know, I could come up with some alternate scenarios but... I think I will let you have your day. The alternates don't go so well.
 
MarAzul said:
So, you think the problem is fixed by black people taking the following action. Someone calls 911 on them, the police come (guns drawn?) and you file a counter charge of discrimination. You show up in court, black of course, and you win your claim? The world is a better place!!!!

I don't know, I could come up with some alternate scenarios but... I think I will let you have your day. The alternated don't go so well.
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I'm tired of answering questions that could be answered if you simply READ...

I JUST SAID

It's not a silver bullet it's a good first step.

When are you gonna choose to understand that shit??? Jesus...
 
Minstrel said:
It prevents making a 911 call because someone looks suspicious if the only reason they have for feeling the person looks suspicious is that they're not white.
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So now a person can't make a 911 call if the perp is black. That is about what I thought. I can see the results of this not always good.
 
dviss1 said:
It's not a silver bullet it's a good first step.

When are you gonna choose to understand that shit??? Jesus..
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Oh, I think I do understand it.
It affects very little of the state even though it was the legislature that did the deed.
The use of 911 in Portland is to now be used carefully, if the perp is black, don't make the call cause the results are hard to know. Best not to do it.
Alternatives to be discovered. Down side to be discovered.
 
MarAzul said:
So now a person can't make a 911 call if the perp is black.
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Sure they can. You seem unwilling to actually read what I said. I said that the reason for why the person is suspicious can't be that they're black (or non-white generally). If they're suspicious for other reasons (like, they're creeping around in your backyard or they're looking into a neighbor's windows) and just happen to be black, of course you could call 911.
 
oldmangrouch said:
I believe making false 911 calls is already a crime. The problem is getting a conviction. You have to convince the cops and DA to take it seriously. This way, the victim has some control.
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Yes, but this seems, at least in my head, to fall into being more than just a simple false 911 type of call. Regular false 911 calls, generally, fall under directly telling a lie. While this type of crime might just as easily fall under some "well intentioned" nutjob with a gun and strong impulses in their head telling them to act.
 
MarAzul said:
Of course you are right Minstrel. Go for it.
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I'm glad we agree that the law doesn't prevent calling 911 about someone who happens to be black, as long as their being black isn't your reason for deeming them suspicious.

After all, considering someone suspicious simply because they're black would be awfully racist. Racism is bad, right?
 
Lanny said:
You really should learn before you assert a falsehood.
Sponsoring Rep. Janelle Bynum proposed the legislation after being on the receiving ends of such a call. She was canvassing door-to-door for her re-election campaign last year when a woman called 911 because Bynum looked "suspicious."
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Anyone going door to door in this age looks suspicious.

That's your high bar for proof of racist intent?
 
Minstrel said:
Sure they can. You seem unwilling to actually read what I said. I said that the reason for why the person is suspicious can't be that they're black (or non-white generally). If they're suspicious for other reasons (like, they're creeping around in your backyard or they're looking into a neighbor's windows) and just happen to be black, of course you could call 911.
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This is why I generally don't engage him. He is completely unable to see another perspective besides the white male's.
 
Minstrel said:
Sure they can. You seem unwilling to actually read what I said. I said that the reason for why the person is suspicious can't be that they're black (or non-white generally). If they're suspicious for other reasons (like, they're creeping around in your backyard or they're looking into a neighbor's windows) and just happen to be black, of course you could call 911.
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The #1 way to recognize a burglar or home invader is if you see someone who you don't recognize as a neighbor going door to door knocking on doors (to see if nobody is home, or to see if a woman/child is home alone). Any LEO or burglar/rapist will tell you that.

Race doesn't play into it, and a person's intent can never be proven.

All this law will do is result in less 911 calls and a slew of unnecessary deaths.
 
dviss1 said:
That has nothing to do with proving to authorities that she was being racist. You actually have to prove it. Something that is hard to do.

Chipotle fucked up here plain and simple. They could've waited til more evidence surfaced and they didn't.

Also, I don't want the fucking police at my BBQ.

And when you say:

"We as a society have a long way to go before we see anything other than skin color."

It WREAKS of not understanding what it's like to be me.

Frankly, you can't CHOOSE how you see me. I CHOOSE how I want to be seen. And I want to be seen as a black man.
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Please understand I mean no disrespect but I'm trying to wrap my head around this to an extent.
I obviously do not understand what it's like to be you, nor do you understand what it's like to be me. I do put forth an effort to try to understand why other people (including you) react to certain situations the way they do. To Empathize, and do my best to understand, but I think(?) we would all say we can't know for sure exactly how someone else perceives a situation, or how their neurons clicked to make a reaction to the perception.

The second part is really what I find interesting, and maybe I need to your help to educate me here. I generally just try to see people as people. I'm not blind, I know you're black man, and I know some guys are brown, or orange as well, but ultimately I think of you as a human, as a person, and your skin color, sex, world views, etc are all secondary to that. If that makes sense. I'm not sure I'm understanding that I should look at a Black man and think, oh that's a Black guy, my first thought would be oh that's a person.

When you say you choose how you want to be seen, isn't that only partially true, you can make a lot of choices for how people will perceive you, however, many people, in this case, racists will see you a certain way no matter what you do?
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
I was talking about stop and frisk.

I tried to find an answer for one simple question. Who is the judge when this goes to court.

Judges are supposed to recuse themselves if they have any conflicts of interest. Well as much as I hate to say it a white person could claim bias if they got a black judge.


This law seems like a bad reaction to a real problem. Especially after all these years of "see something say something"

Middle aged white women are going to go broke because of this.

I've called the cops 3 or 4 times in my life and that was to keep me from taking the law into my own hands.
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I've never called the police in my life.
Once when I was about 11, I was shooting off fireworks late at night in a city park. The police came and shined their spotlight all over the athletic field trying to find me but I lay flat on my tummy and they couldn't spot me. What a criminal.
Another time I went from apartment building to apartment building ringing the door bells. Nobody called the police 'cause that's what kids do. Must have been some keep off my lawn type that called the police when I was shooting off buzz bombs, sparklers and very small skyrockets in the park.
I guess I don't hang out in neighborhoods where you really need to call the police.
 
Lanny said:
I've never called the police in my life.
Once when I was about 11, I was shooting off fireworks late at night in a city park. The police came and shined their spotlight all over the athletic field trying to find me but I lay flat on my tummy and they couldn't spot me. What a criminal.
Another time I went from apartment building to apartment building ringing the door bells. Nobody called the police 'cause that's what kids do. Must have been some keep off my lawn type that called the police when I was shooting off buzz bombs, sparklers and very small skyrockets in the park.
I guess I don't hang out in neighborhoods where you really need to call the police.
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I called the cops last week because some lady hit rear ended me and then took off, but before that, I hadn't ever done it.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Please understand I mean no disrespect but I'm trying to wrap my head around this to an extent.
I obviously do not understand what it's like to be you, nor do you understand what it's like to be me. I do put forth an effort to try to understand why other people (including you) react to certain situations the way they do. To Empathize, and do my best to understand, but I think(?) we would all say we can't know for sure exactly how someone else perceives a situation, or how their neurons clicked to make a reaction to the perception.

The second part is really what I find interesting, and maybe I need to your help to educate me here. I generally just try to see people as people. I'm not blind, I know you're black man, and I know some guys are brown, or orange as well, but ultimately I think of you as a human, as a person, and your skin color, sex, world views, etc are all secondary to that. If that makes sense. I'm not sure I'm understanding that I should look at a Black man and think, oh that's a Black guy, my first thought would be oh that's a person.

When you say you choose how you want to be seen, isn't that only partially true, you can make a lot of choices for how people will perceive you, however, many people, in this case, racists will see you a certain way no matter what you do?
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It shouldn't be too difficult to put yourself in the shoes of someone who gets the police checking up on them on a regular basis just because of their skin color. I imagine that I would feel like I wasn't really free to live like other folks. Think about it. Every time you walked down a sidewalk in a White neighborhood and you have to be looking around to see if some police officer were coming up on you to check you out or if someone was giving you a disapproving look from across the street. That sucks.
I remember when I was in high school and I would walk home with this very friendly black kid. We would arrive at my house first. I would invite him in for some dessert that my mom always had on hand and he would say no thanks. I often wondered why and I finally figured it out. It was because my household was all White and he was uncomfortable around White adults. These are things that those of us on the other side of the fence don't think about. This is why I struggled to understand and only years later figured out.
 
Lanny said:
It shouldn't be too difficult to put yourself in the shoes of someone who gets the police checking up on them on a regular basis just because of their skin color. I imagine that I would feel like I wasn't really free to live like other folks. Think about it. Every time you walked down a sidewalk in a White neighborhood and you have to be looking around to see if some police officer were coming up on you to check you out or if someone was giving you a disapproving look from across the street. That sucks.
I remember when I was in high school and I would walk home with this very friendly black kid. We would arrive at my house first. I would invite him in for some dessert that my mom always had on hand and he would say no thanks. I often wondered why and I finally figured it out. It was because my household was all White and he was uncomfortable around White adults. These are things that those of us on the other side of the fence don't think about. This is why I struggled to understand and only years later figured out.
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I "understand" that, but it wasn't really my question. Maybe I didn't phrase what I was asking very well.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Please understand I mean no disrespect but I'm trying to wrap my head around this to an extent.
I obviously do not understand what it's like to be you, nor do you understand what it's like to be me. I do put forth an effort to try to understand why other people (including you) react to certain situations the way they do. To Empathize, and do my best to understand, but I think(?) we would all say we can't know for sure exactly how someone else perceives a situation, or how their neurons clicked to make a reaction to the perception.

The second part is really what I find interesting, and maybe I need to your help to educate me here. I generally just try to see people as people. I'm not blind, I know you're black man, and I know some guys are brown, or orange as well, but ultimately I think of you as a human, as a person, and your skin color, sex, world views, etc are all secondary to that. If that makes sense. I'm not sure I'm understanding that I should look at a Black man and think, oh that's a Black guy, my first thought would be oh that's a person.

When you say you choose how you want to be seen, isn't that only partially true, you can make a lot of choices for how people will perceive you, however, many people, in this case, racists will see you a certain way no matter what you do?
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To answer the first part: When you have racism inflicted on you (constant bombardment on multiple levels every day all day) you have a better grasp of discerning who is exhibiting this behavior.

I can't even watch porn without seeing racism.

To the 2nd part about not seeing color... It's offensive and frankly just not true.

The idea of not seeing skin-color is nice in theory, but in actuality it’s just a lie. Anyone who is able to see can discern and recognize one skin color from the next. To say you don’t see color is a misnomer. How can you possibly fix something that you don’t believe you actually see? If you are conducting training to help individuals move past their racial biases, it’s important to understand that the goal is not to be color-blind. The goal is not actually to see and recognize skin color but to control and regulate your innate impulse to make decisions based on such characteristics. Being able to first recognize this is critical. We all see color. To say one doesn’t is just not accurate. We have to first, recognize that each of us, no matter our color, have preconceived notions and expectations about different racial groups. Recognition and acknowledgment are crucial.

Another reason why this phrase is counterproductive is that it diminishes the unique differences and experiences racial groups face. Each of us is different and by saying that one of the most obvious and conspicuous characteristics about a person is something you ignore is dismissive and trivializing. Ideally, we would live in a Utopian society where there were rainbows and butterflies and skin color was not a factor in our decision-making, but the unfortunate reality is that it is. Racism has not been eradicated but rather has changed and become more covert and insidious.

What's the first step to solving a problem? Recognizing it exists.
 
In my neighborhood, there never is police patrol. But we do watch for unknown persons driving in the area. It is all private road and all residents and their vehicles are known to the Neighborhood watch. When new people move in there are made know to the watch. People do check when people are known to be out of the area for awhile. It works pretty well, no one calls 911 unless they need an ambulance or assistance with a fire.
 
dviss1 said:
To answer the first part: When you have racism inflicted on you (constant bombardment on multiple levels every day all day) you have a better grasp of discerning who is exhibiting this behavior.

I can't even watch porn without seeing racism.

To the 2nd part about not seeing color... It's offensive and frankly just not true.

The idea of not seeing skin-color is nice in theory, but in actuality it’s just a lie. Anyone who is able to see can discern and recognize one skin color from the next. To say you don’t see color is a misnomer. How can you possibly fix something that you don’t believe you actually see? If you are conducting training to help individuals move past their racial biases, it’s important to understand that the goal is not to be color-blind. The goal is not actually to see and recognize skin color but to control and regulate your innate impulse to make decisions based on such characteristics. Being able to first recognize this is critical. We all see color. To say one doesn’t is just not accurate. We have to first, recognize that each of us, no matter our color, have preconceived notions and expectations about different racial groups. Recognition and acknowledgment are crucial.

Another reason why this phrase is counterproductive is that it diminishes the unique differences and experiences racial groups face. Each of us is different and by saying that one of the most obvious and conspicuous characteristics about a person is something you ignore is dismissive and trivializing. Ideally, we would live in a Utopian society where there were rainbows and butterflies and skin color was not a factor in our decision-making, but the unfortunate reality is that it is. Racism has not been eradicated but rather has changed and become more covert and insidious.

What's the first step to solving a problem? Recognizing it exists.
Click to expand...

I agree, and like I said I'm not blind I recognize you're a Black male, and that my best friend growing up was a Chinese guy. I recognize those things and I'm sure they play a role in my decision making processes to some extent.

Absolutely realize racism exists, and that I'm not immune to stereotypes.

When I look at a Person the fact they're a Human is the first thing that comes to mind, you aren't a Dog, or a whatever, you're a person. I should treat you as a human. Then there are characteristics about you, you are Black, you are a Man, you are... etc. That process happens very quickly obviously we have trillions of neurons working at speeds that are almost incomprehensible. I have no problem seeing you as a "Black Man," because, you are one.
 
dviss1 said:
Explain.
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It discourages people to trust their natural instincts if they feel something isn't right. There will be instances where someone will ignore that due to a law such as this and someone will die as a result of the neglect to report something suspicious.

Its not different from the roving (muslim) migrant rape gangs in Europe. Its happening, but even news agencies can't report on it because it may offend someone or someone will be seen as racist for thinking such bad thoughts!
 
MarAzul said:
In my neighborhood, there never is police patrol. But we do watch for unknown persons driving in the area. It is all private road and all residents and their vehicles are known to the Neighborhood watch. When new people move in there are made know to the watch. People do check when people are known to be out of the area for awhile. It works pretty well, no one calls 911 unless they need an ambulance or assistance with a fire.
Click to expand...

I imagine Bandon has a lot of racial profiling issues. Hard to keep track of a dozen or so people, lol.
 
dviss1 said:
To answer the first part: When you have racism inflicted on you (constant bombardment on multiple levels every day all day) you have a better grasp of discerning who is exhibiting this behavior.

I can't even watch porn without seeing racism.

To the 2nd part about not seeing color... It's offensive and frankly just not true.

The idea of not seeing skin-color is nice in theory, but in actuality it’s just a lie. Anyone who is able to see can discern and recognize one skin color from the next. To say you don’t see color is a misnomer. How can you possibly fix something that you don’t believe you actually see? If you are conducting training to help individuals move past their racial biases, it’s important to understand that the goal is not to be color-blind. The goal is not actually to see and recognize skin color but to control and regulate your innate impulse to make decisions based on such characteristics. Being able to first recognize this is critical. We all see color. To say one doesn’t is just not accurate. We have to first, recognize that each of us, no matter our color, have preconceived notions and expectations about different racial groups. Recognition and acknowledgment are crucial.

Another reason why this phrase is counterproductive is that it diminishes the unique differences and experiences racial groups face. Each of us is different and by saying that one of the most obvious and conspicuous characteristics about a person is something you ignore is dismissive and trivializing. Ideally, we would live in a Utopian society where there were rainbows and butterflies and skin color was not a factor in our decision-making, but the unfortunate reality is that it is. Racism has not been eradicated but rather has changed and become more covert and insidious.

What's the first step to solving a problem? Recognizing it exists.
Click to expand...
Also as we talk this out, I think I'm understanding what you're getting at, sorry for being an idiot lol.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
It discourages people to trust their natural instincts if they feel something isn't right. There will be instances where someone will ignore that due to a law such as this and someone will die as a result of the neglect to report something suspicious.

Its not different from the roving (muslim) migrant rape gangs in Europe. Its happening, but even news agencies can't report on it because it may offend someone or someone will be seen as racist for thinking such bad thoughts!
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Like your president would say "WRONG".

It will make people fucking THINK before they dial 911. As everyone should.
 
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