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Phatguysrule said:
More importantly than all of this. When are the Ducks going to wise up and bring back Mark Campbell?

But as head coach.

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Oregon women’s basketball loses 10th in a row, collapses late at Washington
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Would be shocked if that happened.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Out of curiosity, why? Some kind of drama I haven't heard about?

They've gone down hill ever since he left... And he's done incredibly well.
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  1. I don't think Oregon would have any appiete to pay Graves' contract for 5 more years on top of another coach for a non-revenue generating sport
  2. Campbell didn't leave Oregon (or Oregon St) on good terms from what I heard. Rueck wouldn't even acknowledge him at games when he was at Oregon.
  3. TCU is currently 5-11 in conference (yes, they've had injuries like Oregon) so he's far from a proven winner
I think Campbell is an interesting candidate, but I think too much credit has been given to him for the success Graves' has or hasn't had. Graves has 3 Sweet 16 and 1 Elite Eight appearance on his resume w/out Campbell.
 
Tince said:
  1. I don't think Oregon would have any appiete to pay Graves' contract for 5 more years on top of another coach for a non-revenue generating sport
  2. Campbell didn't leave Oregon (or Oregon St) on good terms from what I heard. Rueck wouldn't even acknowledge him at games when he was at Oregon.
  3. TCU is currently 5-11 in conference (yes, they've had injuries like Oregon) so he's far from a proven winner
I think Campbell is an interesting candidate, but I think too much credit has been given to him for the success Graves' has or hasn't had. Graves has 3 Sweet 16 and 1 Elite Eight appearance on his resume w/out Campbell.
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Solid points about leaving Oregon and OSU on bad terms. And about Oregon not being interested in firing Graves yet.

But regarding winning, this is his first season at TCU. In 2 seasons he turned around Sacramento State and took them to heights the school has never seen before.

https://gofrogs.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster/coaches/mark-campbell/1330
Campbell served the last two seasons as head coach at Sacramento State. He was previously an assistant coach for seven years at Oregon where he brought in some of the nation's top recruiting classes, including a No. 1 ranking in 2020. His recruiting efforts with the Ducks included unanimous national player of the year and WNBA No. 1 draft pick Sabrina Ionescu.

Campbell led Sacramento State to a school record 25 wins this season and its first NCAA Tournament appearance in program history. The Hornets won a share of their first Big Sky regular season championship and first Big Sky Tournament title. The 25 victories marked the first 20-win season in program history and were also the most ever by a Sacramento State men's or women's basketball team.
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I think he'll be an elite coach competing for national championships in a few years.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Solid points about leaving Oregon and OSU on bad terms. And about Oregon not being interested in firing Graves yet.

But regarding winning, this is his first season at TCU. In 2 seasons he turned around Sacramento State and took them to heights the school has never seen before.

https://gofrogs.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster/coaches/mark-campbell/1330


I think he'll be an elite coach competing for national championships in a few years.
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I would bet against him coaching for national championships (at least at TCU) in a few years, though I don't have anything bad to say about him as a coach.

And while Campbell has turned around one G5 school and may be on path to turn around a P5 school, Graves has also done that three times (St Mary's, Gonzaga, and Oregon). Having said all that, I'm very curious what the real issue is with WBB at Oregon. I've heard they've lost some of their better players because they're not competitive at the NIL level. Having lost 6, 5-star players in 3 years is alarming, even if some of them may have been overrated coming out of HS. Oregon did just get a commit from a 5* earlier this week, so who knows!
 
Tince said:
I would bet against him coaching for national championships (at least at TCU) in a few years, though I don't have anything bad to say about him as a coach.

And while Campbell has turned around one G5 school and may be on path to turn around a P5 school, Graves has also done that three times (St Mary's, Gonzaga, and Oregon). Having said all that, I'm very curious what the real issue is with WBB at Oregon. I've heard they've lost some of their better players because they're not competitive at the NIL level. Having lost 6, 5-star players in 3 years is alarming, even if some of them may have been overrated coming out of HS. Oregon did just get a commit from a 5* earlier this week, so who knows!
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I haven't heard anything, one way or the other, about WBB NIL. But Graves was losing lots of transfers before NIL became a thing. I've heard he is really inflexible as a coach and demands players fit his system without adjusting the system to fit players. Now, that's not unusual, generically, for a college coach. I'd imagine Tara VanDerveer is pretty demanding, but she also is a master at adjustments

But Graves success at Oregon without Sabrina+Ruthy+Satou is unimpressive. With those three playing, Oregon was 97-12 overall, and 49-5 in-conference and won the PAC-12 all three years. In his other 6 seasons he has a 112-77 (.592) record overall. Worse is that his conference record is under .500 at 51-55; and his average finish in the Pac-12 is 6th.

the trend is definitely heading the wrong way and I've heard some rumblings he might be losing Vanslooten and Gray to transfer after the season
 
Just a short note on Men's basketball. Very disappointing season. There is no big time shot maker on this team; no one who can make a shot under defensive pressure or in the clutch. Also no guy who can consistently make an open three point shot. Shelsted was looking great in pre-conference but really lost his shot after that. Cousinard had some good early games but fizzled out on offense. Kwame Evans a big disappointment. Almost a zero on offense and rebounding. I think Altman only played him consistently because he didn't want to lose him on the transfer portal. Dante pretty good but makes bad turnovers and lacks a real strong motor. Bittle injured pretty much all season.
 
wizenheimer said:
I haven't heard anything, one way or the other, about WBB NIL. But Graves was losing lots of transfers before NIL became a thing. I've heard he is really inflexible as a coach and demands players fit his system without adjusting the system to fit players. Now, that's not unusual, generically, for a college coach. I'd imagine Tara VanDerveer is pretty demanding, but she also is a master at adjustments

But Graves success at Oregon without Sabrina+Ruthy+Satou is unimpressive. With those three playing, Oregon was 97-12 overall, and 49-5 in-conference and won the PAC-12 all three years. In his other 6 seasons he has a 112-77 (.592) record overall. Worse is that his conference record is under .500 at 51-55; and his average finish in the Pac-12 is 6th.

the trend is definitely heading the wrong way and I've heard some rumblings he might be losing Vanslooten and Gray to transfer after the season
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Who are the key contributors Graves lost prior to NIL? McGuire? I'd argue that pre-NIL, he brought more talent in than he lost. Post-NIL, it's the opposite.

While I agree the program is clearly trending in the wrong direction, I think your exercise of taking out the best 4 seasons of a 10 year stretch is going to produce some misleading results; especially considering he took over a program that was near the bottom of the conference. If you remove his worst 4 seasons, his resume looks unbelievable, but likewise, that wouldn't paint the full picture.

If/when Vanslooten and Gray leave, it wouldn't be a surprise. Erik Skopil has reported in the past that Oregon has lost top contributors because they get out-bid in the NIL world. I think folks think Phil Knight is out there funding the entire athletic department like he is football.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Just a short note on Men's basketball. Very disappointing season. There is no big time shot maker on this team; no one who can make a shot under defensive pressure or in the clutch. Also no guy who can consistently make an open three point shot. Shelsted was looking great in pre-conference but really lost his shot after that. Cousinard had some good early games but fizzled out on offense. Kwame Evans a big disappointment. Almost a zero on offense and rebounding. I think Altman only played him consistently because he didn't want to lose him on the transfer portal. Dante pretty good but makes bad turnovers and lacks a real strong motor. Bittle injured pretty much all season.
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Yesterday they were down to 7 scholarship players and they've been at 8 for a good chunk, that's got to significantly handcuff what a team can do.
 
Tince said:
Who are the key contributors Graves lost prior to NIL? .
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(keeping in mind that Oregon's NIL program(s) didn't really get going till the spring term of 2022, at the earliest): Jaz Shelley; Taylor Chavez, Lucy Cochrane, Taylor Mikesell, Sydney Parish, Angela Dugalic

Maddie Scherr & Kylee Watson transferred in April of 2022, about 2 months after Division St was formed. And Division St was one of the earliest established NIL collectives so I'd be skeptical that NIL was the main reason for those two transfers

if the contention is that Oregon lags in NIL directed to the WBB team, I can't dispute that because I don't know. Maybe...probably? But it sure appears that the glue that held the program together was Sabrina+Ruthy+Satou, not Graves
 
wizenheimer said:
(keeping in mind that Oregon's NIL program(s) didn't really get going till the spring term of 2022, at the earliest): Jaz Shelley; Taylor Chavez, Lucy Cochrane, Taylor Mikesell, Sydney Parish, Angela Dugalic

Maddie Scherr & Kylee Watson transferred in April of 2022, about 2 months after Division St was formed. And Division St was one of the earliest established NIL collectives so I'd be skeptical that NIL was the main reason for those two transfers
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NIL started July 1, 2021 and all the players you listed above transfered that off-season or later. Oregon not forming an NIL for a year probably didn't help them compete in that area. Also, I don't believe Division St gives hardly any money to WBB. Ducks Rising gives $0.

I would agree NIL was unlikely the only reason every transfer left. Again, per Erik Skopil, who covers the team fairly closely, I think there were differing reasons for the majority of the players you listed transferring. Cochrane had a very difficult path to playing time. Even the Shelley decision was reportedly mutual because of Scherr and Paopao being in front of her. Dugalic reportedly had issues connecting with the rest of the "fab 5". Scherr and Parrish transferred closer to home. Mikesell and Graves didn't get along, though Miksell had issues with her coach at Maryland too, so take that for what it's worth. Similar story with Chavez, who ended up having a falling out with Barnes and quiting basketball all together. Never heard a story about Watson, and while she would be a real contributor on this team, she's just a decent role players who wouldn't turn this squad into a tournament team. Same with Bigby.

Paopao and Rogers departures sounded like they were causalities of NIL.

Having said all that, all those people left, and no matter how legit the reasons were or were not, some of them were replaced with much lesser talent. And that's a problem.
 
Tince said:
NIL started July 1, 2021 and all the players you listed above transfered that off-season or later. .
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the SCOTUS ruling was in 2021, yes. But the ramifications of it weren't fully understood for months, nor how the NCAA was going to respond. Also, I sure seem to remember that Division Street was one of the first collectives actually formed, not a late arrival.

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https://www.on3.com/nil/news/the-co...ollege-football-nil-alabama-duke-iowa-oregon/

Personally, I think the notion that most programs had NIL collectives up and running for WBB a few weeks or months after the SCOTUS ruling is giving way too much credit to them wading thru the confusion. Most programs struggled to get NIL programs for football up and running in less than a year

Jaz Shelley, Taylor Chavez, Lucy Cochrane, Taylor Mikesell, and Angela Dugalic all transferred in 2021, some in the summer of 2021 and I have a hard time believing the schools they transferred to had WBB NIL collectives up and running within weeks of the SCOTUS ruling. Maddie Scherr, Kylie Watson, Taylor Bigby, and Sydney Parrish transferred in the summer of 2022. Sedonna Prince in April of 2023

by the way, Oregon just lost their 11th in a row earlier today
 
wizenheimer said:
the SCOTUS ruling was in 2021, yes. But the ramifications of it weren't fully understood for months, nor how the NCAA was going to respond. Also, I sure seem to remember that Division Street was one of the first collectives actually formed, not a late arrival.

View attachment 63213


https://www.on3.com/nil/news/the-co...ollege-football-nil-alabama-duke-iowa-oregon/

Personally, I think the notion that most programs had NIL collectives up and running for WBB a few weeks or months after the SCOTUS ruling is giving way too much credit to them wading thru the confusion. Most programs struggled to get NIL programs for football up and running in less than a year

Jaz Shelley, Taylor Chavez, Lucy Cochrane, Taylor Mikesell, and Angela Dugalic all transferred in 2021, some in the summer of 2021 and I have a hard time believing the schools they transferred to had WBB NIL collectives up and running within weeks of the SCOTUS ruling. Maddie Scherr, Kylie Watson, Taylor Bigby, and Sydney Parrish transferred in the summer of 2022. Sedonna Prince in April of 2023

by the way, Oregon just lost their 11th in a row earlier today
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We agree it is unlikely every player that transferred was strictly do to NIL. See my previous response for the breakdown for each player you listed, I think I covered most of them.

I watched the entire game today, the team is awful. Gray shooting 2-17 despite 10ish good looks was head-scratching. I dislike how the roster is unbalanced, slow of foot, and frankly lacks talent in the backcourt.

If Graves' contract was up, I would expect Mullens to go in a different direction. However, it's not, and I would be surprised if Mullens dipped into the athletic department budget to pay Graves $6m (3 years of WBB revenue) to not coach. Last year the WBB program got $200k worth contributions/donations, so it's hard for me to imagine there are enough folks out there willing to donate $6m. I could be way off though, maybe there is more financial backing in the program than I'm aware of.
 
Tince said:
We agree it is unlikely every player that transferred was strictly do to NIL. See my previous response for the breakdown for each player you listed, I think I covered most of them.

I watched the entire game today, the team is awful. Gray shooting 2-17 despite 10ish good looks was head-scratching. I dislike how the roster is unbalanced, slow of foot, and frankly lacks talent in the backcourt.

If Graves' contract was up, I would expect Mullens to go in a different direction. However, it's not, and I would be surprised if Mullens dipped into the athletic department budget to pay Graves $6m (3 years of WBB revenue) to not coach. Last year the WBB program got $200k worth contributions/donations, so it's hard for me to imagine there are enough folks out there willing to donate $6m. I could be way off though, maybe there is more financial backing in the program than I'm aware of.
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yeah...I'm not saying he'll be fired; not with a contract that runs thru 2029. I am saying if he was gauged by the product he's put on the floor the last 3 years since the big-3 left, firing him would be justified
 
BBert said:
You mean Spring 2024?
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Technically it's part of the 2023-24 scholastic year which is why spring teams are still playing in the Pac-12. There is no real reason to make a new thread unless the idea is that football is the only thing that matters to you.
 
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