OREGON MINIMUM WAGE SET AT $14.75 AFTER GOVERNOR SIGNED THE BILL AMIDST OPPOSITION’S DEFIANCE

[lawai'a]

Screwed up! quote here for answer above ^^^

just trying to get you back on topic first discussed, you were ignoring some key facts with your wandering.

 

[lawai'a]

History glosses over how powerful lobbyists were back then with no restrictions and guys like Grant were heavy drunks with PTSD compounded. There was not one reason for the Civil War....it was a long list and presidents didn't have JP Morgan like power...the titans pretty much monopolized whatever they wanted to monopolize. It was not a real law abiding time in our history. Slavery was something that was part of the issue and succession is plenty of reason for declaring war depending on the circumstance. Genocide or slavery or the cost of doing business.
If you cut off someone's port of access or watershed...they'd be mighty pissed off.

so siege the fort.

 

[MarAzul]

it was still federal property, i do not for 1 moment believe your implication that this was a conspiracy all along by the railroads or whomever. the reason the garrison was moved to fort sumter, a federal property, since 1776 in fact, was because there previous position was indefensible to a land assault from the carolina shores. an implicit threat if you take into account the tensions and aggressions on the part of south carolina. the fact that south carolina feared a possible, not factual, blockade surely led to their attack on the fort. in fact their was no blockade or method of resuppling sumter at the time. it would have likely led to a simple surrender over the due course of time without resupply.

I guess we differ.

 

[MarAzul]

If you cut off someone's port of access or watershed...they'd be mighty pissed off.

Yes, it is in it's self an act of war in international law. The first act of war in the Civil war.

 

[MarAzul]

so siege the fort.

And this has to do with how the Slaves should have been freed and set up? How?

 

[MarAzul]

There were probably less than a million slave owners in the US at the time of the Civil war. The owners owned about 3.8 million slaves with a market value of about 114 million dollars
The federal government bought out more fisherman than this during the 70s - 90s.
Lincoln was fool going to war over slaves (I don't think he did), as he killed one third as many people as he freed and in effect dumped them, without a means of support. Spending far more
money that it would have cost to buy them, free them and set them up to be self supporting. We did it with Fisherman years later but Lincoln had no such plan nor was he motivated to find one.
Lincoln's Union budget fighting the war for one year, crossed the One Billion mark, the first nation in history to do so. Years of this resulted in way more spending than doing the right thing would have cost doing it in style, leaving the people with a way to proceed. History here is a white wash of a true trajedy in this country history lead by Lincoln and continued by Grant.

 

[dviss1]

Lincoln's plan for the slaves he freed were as lacking as Clinton's plans for Libya. Most of the lands worked by the slave probably, rightfully should have been redistributed to new owners. It was not,
most was sold at action for back taxes and the slaves were just moved out of the way. Much of the land went to Northern bidders.
The great Lincoln's only plan for the slaves was repatriation back to African, Liberia. Those that think the war was about slavery really need to study the actual history. Some slaves did come out of the fracas and turmoil owning a bit of land, most were not even permitted to own land until after the 14th amendment was passed making them citizens. This, some how began the myth of 40 acres and a Mule.

Lincoln was assassinated before he could execute his plan for the slaves, but I am not so sure this was of any help, Grant's did not seem ( my historical view) to give a damn at all what happened with the former slaves or the multitude of white non slave owners through out the South. Exploitation of the people of the South by the Northern powerful went on for decades. The north wanted the South to take it rightful place as consumers in their industrial economy and that was the extent of their concern. But then, this pretty much cause the war to begin, no reason to expect a change in the goal after a win.

Lincoln's plan for former slaves that had been there for 80 years was to send them back to a continent where they'd never been to.

 

[MarAzul]

Lincoln's plan for former slaves that had been there for 80 years was to send them back to a continent where they'd never been to.

I haven't read another.

 

[dviss1]

I haven't read another.

Exactly. So basically you're on board with the send them back to Africa plan?

"Yeah, we got enough work out of em'... They plowed our fields, picked our cotton, breastfed our children, and even built the White House. Now we'll send their asses back to a country that they've never been to and won't have a home to go to when they get there... They'll figure it out."

 

[MarAzul]

So basically you're on board with the send them back to Africa plan?

uh, Lincoln's plan, not mine!

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Yes, throwing money in the garbage is something to really hope for.

Eh. I was on food stamps for 2 months when I lost a job. I wouldnt have minded taking a drug test. Im tired of seeing people trade food stamps for cash so they can buy pot.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Im glad my first job at fred Meyer didnt pay enough for me to want to stay. Stocking the yogurt while people ask me what isle the soda is on when there is a giant mound of soda 10 feet away would have been a total shit career path.

It's really simple economics. If Im building a product and selling it for $1000. I know parts cost $200 and labor to build it costs $300 an after operations costs (building rent, electricity, tools, ect.) For simple math that costs $100 per unitand r&d costs $100 a unit now I spend $700 to make $1000 a 30% profit margin (which is pretty incredible) now wages double now I have 0% profit margin. To stay alive I either have to raise product cost, or cut cost. I can either use shittier parts and save $50 a unit, but now increase my returns and warranty repairs, or I can cut my labor force or find ways to lower the cost, like lower the I hours or move some of my manufacturing to cheaper areas.

Or I can raise product cost to $1300 and people wont care cause they make more now. Oh wait that's Inflation

Im thankful a college graduate and coworker pulled me aside one day in the dairy isle and said "your boss makes $12/hr tops. Get out of here as soon as you can, this is not a career."

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Then Sly comes with the first guess about your bigness as, Dick.

I meant personality, get your mind out of the gutter.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

uh! That is boarder line ignorant. Did you just take a hit to suppress your intellect so you can fit in?

I was being facetious. Money can give you an incentive to eat a shit sandwich, but it doesn't make it any more palatable.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Eh. I was on food stamps for 2 months when I lost a job. I wouldnt have minded taking a drug test. Im tired of seeing people trade food stamps for cash so they can buy pot.

Where are you hanging out that you see this so much?

The fact is, drug testing welfare recipients is a huge waste of money. I'd rather just give everyone free drugs.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Where are you hanging out that you see this so much?

The fact is, drug testing welfare recipients is a huge waste of money. I'd rather just give everyone free drugs.

I wasnt always a model citizen. I used to be a liberal too. Then I grew up.

 

[Denny Crane]

Where are you hanging out that you see this so much?

The fact is, drug testing welfare recipients is a huge waste of money. I'd rather just give everyone free drugs.

Seriously. If you're going to give people money, let them spend it as they see fit.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Seriously. If you're going to give people money, let them spend it as they see fit.

I dont like to take a hard right or left stance on food stamps. I think the idea of helping people temporarily is good and dont mind paying taxes for it. My far right stance would say that is what charities are for, but it was pretty humbling when I found myself using them and I was grateful it was there. Now I only spent 2 months on them before I found a job and even though they said I could qualify for them still I said id rather pay my own way. But not everyone is like that. Not everyone is abusing the system either but I've seen a lot of people perfectly capable of working just collecting food stamps and living off the tax refunds/child support from their 6 kids.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Personal insult removed.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Me neither. Somewhere along the line, something changed. And if I had the answer to this problem, I'd gladly give it.

In my father's day, he worked because he had a family to support. In the 70s, he hitchhiked back and forth to Texas from the Bay Area to work as a sheet-rock layer in Construction. Then he married his first wife, who drowned in the ocean one day while they were at a beach. Then he met my mother in....I want to say 1980?

In the 80s, he had to move out of his MIL's house because my mother was expecting her second child (my sister), and he had bills to pay. He was in recovery from cocaine addiction and alcohol addiction, and my mother followed him there herself shortly after he sobered up.

So he moved us into a one-room apartment in San Jose, and lived there for 5 years while he started from the very bottom once again at a new company. Then we moved into a 5 bedroom house. Then he got a job transfer in the mid 90s to a higher paying position, and he moved the family here to Vancouver.

Now he's Vice President of a company, owns 3 houses (one paid off), and 4 cars. He has a patent, and also holds more Salesman awards and President's Club awards than anyone at his old company. In the next 4 or 5 years, he'll retire a millionaire.

Not bad for a guy who never went to college.

But he did what he HAD to do, and nobody gave him a fucking hand out. He's NEVER been on welfare. There weren't the kinds of services in the Bay Area during the 80s that there is now. Or if there were, they weren't widely known. Remember: no internet back then.

Today, you've got people who are trying to make ends meet in menial jobs to fund....IPhones. Or car stereos. Or other pointless bullshit that our "Give Me First" and instant gratification society has taught them is somehow okay, rather than putting food on the table and working towards a better future.

Like you, I don't know where it went wrong, and I don't have all the answers for it. But I have a feeling much of it has to do with how far technology has advanced in this country, and the job skills required to get them have changed dramatically as well.

When my father was starting over, he was put in charge of a job that, literally, all he had to do was plug a small chip into a light bulb and watch it light up. That told him the chip was okay.

That's it. That's all he had to do. A drunk monkey could do it.

Today, you have companies requiring serious college JUST to get into apprenticeship programs. And that has left many people behind, because that part of our society just hasn't caught up with the times yet. Because many people get out of high school and have bills to pay; never mind having time to go to college.

Mind you....this is merely speculation on my part.

So then they get stuck in the same menial jobs for years and years. It happened to me. When I got out of High School, I was on my own. Had problems with my parents, and they weren't interested in supporting me. So I did 7 years of hourly-wage Security work, which I have absolutely nothing to show for it. There were many times where I slept in my fucking car on job sites because of the hours I worked.

Now I'm having to start over with another kind of career that pays more, and is far more flexible with better opportunities.

Those who HAVE to work to pay the bills know the true value of wealth, because they see what they need at the end of the tunnel to be successful and prosperous in our society. The rest focus on what's in front of them and live day by day.

My father knew he wanted a better life, and drove himself to many grey hairs, month-long business trips to foreign countries, and had to make hard sacrifices that effected our family greatly; both positively and negatively.

I guess it was just a different time?

So I don't have all the answers. And what I posted above is merely MY speculation of why society moved on from the rest of us: I believe the overwhelming technology boom we have today has played a huge part in what jobs are like in this country.

But I do know hard work pays off, and you're right: minimum wage jobs were never meant to be careers.

Sorry about the life-story, by the way. I rarely ever talk about my family to anyone except my shrink, but it feels good to do so once in a while. I love my parents to death, and I'm very proud of my father's accomplishments.

Good post. I honestly think it started with credit. Then the boomers hit overdrive when they had the benefit of a booming economy and riding the coat tails of the hardest working generation. and now millennials think they should be able to have the wealth their parents had without all the work. I was one of them coming out of high school i felt like i should have all the toys and people owed me, this link of thinking eventually cost me a really good job. I taught myself to critically think and quickly realized wealth takes a lifetime to build. I began setting long term goals and short term goals to help achieve them. Hey, by 29 im a home owner, so it's working, and I didnt need government hand outs or a million dollar loan from my parents. No im not a trump fan, hell, I dont even vote because I cant in good conscience vote for any of these shit bags we are presented. I'm not a republican, but I do hate the democratic agenda just a little more.

Man was made to work. I've learned to find work gratifying. Now the next goal, working for myself instead of making someone else rich.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Good post. I honestly think it started with credit. Then the boomers hit overdrive when they had the benefit of a booming economy and riding the coat tails of the hardest working generation. and now millennials think they should be able to have the wealth their parents had without all the work. I was one of them coming out of high school i felt like i should have all the toys and people owed me, this link of thinking eventually cost me a really good job. I taught myself to critically think and quickly realized wealth takes a lifetime to build. I began setting long term goals and short term goals to help achieve them. Hey, by 29 im a home owner, so it's working, and I didnt need government hand outs or a million dollar loan from my parents. No im not a trump fan, hell, I dont even vote because I cant in good conscience vote for any of these shit bags we are presented. I'm not a republican, but I do hate the democratic agenda just a little more.

Very well said, and I agree. Home owner at 29? Wow! I'm in a one-bedroom apartment approaching my big 33. That is quite an accomplishment, and you should be proud!

I actually classify myself as a Libertarian. There are views I'm Liberal about, such as Gay Rights and Global Warming, and there are things that I'm Conservative about, such as Gun Rights and Smaller Government/Lower Taxes. In my view, Libertarians embrace much of these things equally.

Now, if only they had political power in this country....sigh. I wouldn't have to vote for any shit bag in the Republican party. Because I DO agree with you that they are all nothing but shit bags.

And people are often surprised to know that I was a Liberal Democrat as a young adult. Then I grew up, had life-experiences, and saw the world for how it really was, and realized that the Republican party was far more realistic in their views and policies than Democrats were.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Very well said, and I agree. Home owner at 29? Wow! I'm in a one-bedroom apartment approaching my big 33. That is quite an accomplishment, and you should be proud!

I actually classify myself as a Libertarian. There are views I'm Liberal about, such as Gay Rights and Global Warming, and there are things that I'm Conservative about, such as Gun Rights and Smaller Government/Lower Taxes. In my view, Libertarians embrace much of these things equally.

Now, if only they had political power in this country....sigh. I wouldn't have to vote for any shit bag in the Republican party. Because I DO agree with you that they are all nothing but shit bags.

And people are often surprised to know that I was a Liberal Democrat as a young adult. Then I grew up, had life-experiences, and saw the world for how it really was, and realized that the Republican party was far more realistic in their views and policies than Democrats were.

I thought i was libertarian for a while but now I just dont know. Take gay rights for instance, rather than making gay marriage legal or not, i think the state should have no say in a marriage. If 2 people love eachother and want to have a ceremony celebrating their love, go right ahead. Why should the state issue a piece of paper about it? I guess im just against marriage period, or at least in a legal sense. Removing the state's permission from the equation would solve the problem in my mind. Man and woman, man and man, transgender pansexual bilingual hermaphrodite and dog, do your thing, state doesnt get to grant love.

Really I want government completely out of social issues, I dont think morals, emotions, and ethics can be governed. I think government should focus on state infrastructure and national defense.

I think a lot of previous social governing was necessary, the removal of Jim crow, granting women the right to vote, ect. All important, but I think we could simplify it. How about the preamble to the constitution? "We hold these truths to be self evident, all men are created equal" that squashed the need for any of these amendments. Sorry, you cant make racist, homophobic, or sexist laws, because we are all equal. Pretty simple, and I wish we as a society could simplify it like that, but then we cant sue eachother every time we break a random law

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Also a little light hearted trolling is good. I use to wear my beard like an Arab when I went to church, just cause I knew everyone was wondering about me and on edge. If I was black, id probably sport dreads, just to scare some white people. People need to lighten the fuck up.

 

[MarAzul]

Where are you hanging out that you see this so much?

The fact is, drug testing welfare recipients is a huge waste of money. I'd rather just give everyone free drugs.

Well I don't know about the freebees, but I agree about wasting the money. Bad management.

 

[MarAzul]

I'm not a republican, but I do hate the democratic agenda just a little more.

Man was made to work. I've learned to find work gratifying. Now the next goal, working for myself

Hell man, you get it! Now suck it up, forget about what you want, and vote for the person that will follow the Constitution the closest. That is you best shot for you to get the chance to go where you are aiming. I wish you a speedy journey.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Hell man, you get it! Now suck it up, forget about what you want, and vote for the person that will follow the Constitution the closest. That is you best shot for you to get the chance to go where you are aiming. I wish you a speedy journey.

Lmao. Another reason I dont vote, in oregon I knew we'd be blue, my vote didnt matter. Here in south carolina, I know we will be red, why waste my time?

 

[MarAzul]

Lmao. Another reason I dont vote, in oregon I knew we'd be blue, my vote didnt matter. Here in south carolina, I know we will be red, why waste my time?

I know, but just perhaps. It doesn't cost much.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Where are you hanging out that you see this so much?

The fact is, drug testing welfare recipients is a huge waste of money. I'd rather just give everyone free drugs.

In oregon they give ebt food and ebt cash. I can't tell you how many times I saw people get cash back from ebt cash and immediately go buy alcohol or cigarettes when I worked at a grocery store as a cashier.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

The Wendy's on SE Powell has closed. Signage stripped from the building and a for sale sign put up.

This is a war on fast food! :MARIS61:

 

[MarAzul]

The Wendy's on SE Powell has closed. Signage stripped from the building and a for sale sign put up.

This is a war on fast food! :MARIS61:

Naw! It's the beginning of the the $17 Cheeseburger as soon as someone invents it. But will it sell?