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Ohhh so Im a segragenre??? What did you call me?????
nevermind......it's not important...let's just say I tend to dislike musical genres in general...a good song is a good song...they don't need separate neighborhoods on a library shelf or in a music store..I think it's divided music appreciation since FM radio..artists feel compelled to tailor their work to fit on the shelf. Neil Young is always found in rock sections even if he records a purely country CD....Hendrix can play redhouse and it's rock...Buddy Guy does and it's blues....always thought it was bullshit..nothin' personal.
 
nevermind......it's not important...let's just say I tend to dislike musical genres in general...a good song is a good song...they don't need separate neighborhoods on a library shelf or in a music store..I think it's divided music appreciation since FM radio..artists feel compelled. Neil Young is often found in rock sections even if he records a purely country CD....Hendrix can play redhouse and it's rock...Buddy Guy does and it's blues....always thought it was bullshit..nothin' personal.

Just messin with ya bro. :)

Have you ever been to Everyday music up here in Ptown? If not, well then next time your up here, hit me up. I will take you. This place will want you to ask them to segragate the music even more.

I think your right about Radio, but also segragation is good when simply browsing. Ive gone into Everyday music more than once intending to hit one section and end up spending all my time in the E-G section or something.
 
Just messin with ya bro. :)

Have you ever been to Everyday music up here in Ptown? If not, well then next time your up here, hit me up. I will take you. This place will want you to ask them to segragate the music even more.

I think your right about Radio, but also segragation is good when simply browsing. Ive gone into Everyday music more than once intending to hit one section and end up spending all my time in the E-G section or something.
I haven't unless I wandered in and forgot the name of the place...that'd be cool...if I opened a record shop it would be alphabetical straight across the board. Patsy Cline next to the Pretenders...Crowded House next to Bing Crosby...Hank Williams next to Wilco
 
I haven't unless I wandered in and forgot the name of the place...that'd be cool...if I opened a record shop it would be alphabetical straight across the board. Patsy Cline next to the Pretenders...Crowded House next to Bing Crosby...Hank Williams next to Wilco

What happens then though when a customer walks in and says. Im a metal head, but I need some smooth jazz for this party i'm throwing. He wont have a clue where to look. :)
 
What happens then though when a customer walks in and says. Im a metal head, but I need some smooth jazz for this party i'm throwing. He wont have a clue where to look. :)
"No Music for you! Next!!"

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I keep seeing people say to trade Plumlee, but what if Ezeli doesn't work out and Portland let's him go after the season? There's no cap space left.
 
I keep seeing people say to trade Plumlee, but what if Ezeli doesn't work out and Portland let's him go after the season? There's no cap space left.

I think Stotts will play Plums about 28 mpg and Ezeli around 20 mpg at the 5. I'm hoping Olshey works his magic by trading Meyers to a team for a draft pick and signing Plums to a team-friendly contract. Personally, this situation would be ideal for me.
 
I wouldn't count on Ezeli playing more than 18 MPG. His career high is 16.7 MPG in a season where he missed 36 games. It would be great if he was capable of playing more, but here's his playing time over the last 3 seasons:

2013-15 - o Games, 0 MPG
2104-15 - 46 Games, 11.0 MPG
2016-16 - 46 Games, 16.7 MPG

If he's able to play 50 games at 18 MPG, that will be the healthiest he's been since J.J. Hickson was our starting center.

Like others, I think Vonleh is the odd man out, at least for now. Barring major injury, I think Noah will get Cliff Alexander minutes this coming season.

I think, with the addition of Turner as our starting 3, I think Aminu continues in the role he played late last year as our starting PF, but he will continue to see plenty of PT as our back up 3. In spite of starting all 82 games last season, AND playing two positions, Aminu only averaged 28.5 MPG, which is a career high for him. So, that leaves us at least 24 MPG for others to play the 4, probably more as I think Aminu will play more than 4.5 MPG at the 3 spot.

That leaves 4 players, Plumlee, Davis, Ezeli and Leonard to divide up the the center and back up power forward minutes. That's really not THAT big of a logjam, given that none of these guys are accustomed to playing big minutes.

Rather than divide it up on a MPG basis, as their will be injures (hopefully minor) and DNP-CDs, lets look at the total minutes available. Assuming 48 MPG available at the center position and 24 MPG (at least) available backing Aminu at the 4, times 82 games, that comes out to 5904 total minutes for these four guys to share.

Here's what they all played last season:

Mason Plumlee - 2084 minutes (a new career high)
Ed Davis - 1684 Minutes (second highest of his career)
Meyers Leonard - 1333 minutes (a new career high)
Festus Ezeli - 719 minutes (second highest of his career)
Total - 5820

Logjam, what logjam? Assuming Vonleh is not part of the regular rotation and Aminu sucks up half the minutes at PF, that still leaves enough minutes for all of these guys to play just as much as they are used to playing. The actual division of minutes will depend on health, effectiveness and match ups, and while a consolidation trade that improves the quality of our front court should always be considered, from a PT standpoint, I don't think it's absolutely necessary.

Let these guys fight it out in training camp, preseason and the first month and a half of the regular season to see who earns the minutes and fits in best with the other players. Use the two months between December 15th, when trades become much more doable, and the trade deadline to determine if a trade is beneficial and one is available that improves our team. There is absolutely no reason to make any move before then (unless a no-brainer trade drops into Neil's lap).

BNM
 
Our frontcourt brings all the boys to the yard, and they're like, it's better than yours, damn right, it's better than yours..
 
I wouldn't count on Ezeli playing more than 18 MPG. His career high is 16.7 MPG in a season where he missed 36 games. It would be great if he was capable of playing more, but here's his playing time over the last 3 seasons:

2013-15 - o Games, 0 MPG
2104-15 - 46 Games, 11.0 MPG
2016-16 - 46 Games, 16.7 MPG

If he's able to play 50 games at 18 MPG, that will be the healthiest he's been since J.J. Hickson was our starting center.

Like others, I think Vonleh is the odd man out, at least for now. Barring major injury, I think Noah will get Cliff Alexander minutes this coming season.

I think, with the addition of Turner as our starting 3, I think Aminu continues in the role he played late last year as our starting PF, but he will continue to see plenty of PT as our back up 3. In spite of starting all 82 games last season, AND playing two positions, Aminu only averaged 28.5 MPG, which is a career high for him. So, that leaves us at least 24 MPG for others to play the 4, probably more as I think Aminu will play more than 4.5 MPG at the 3 spot.

That leaves 4 players, Plumlee, Davis, Ezeli and Leonard to divide up the the center and back up power forward minutes. That's really not THAT big of a logjam, given that none of these guys are accustomed to playing big minutes.

Rather than divide it up on a MPG basis, as their will be injures (hopefully minor) and DNP-CDs, lets look at the total minutes available. Assuming 48 MPG available at the center position and 24 MPG (at least) available backing Aminu at the 4, times 82 games, that comes out to 5904 total minutes for these four guys to share.

Here's what they all played last season:

Mason Plumlee - 2084 minutes (a new career high)
Ed Davis - 1684 Minutes (second highest of his career)
Meyers Leonard - 1333 minutes (a new career high)
Festus Ezeli - 719 minutes (second highest of his career)
Total - 5820

Logjam, what logjam? Assuming Vonleh is not part of the regular rotation and Aminu sucks up half the minutes at PF, that still leaves enough minutes for all of these guys to play just as much as they are used to playing. The actual division of minutes will depend on health, effectiveness and match ups, and while a consolidation trade that improves the quality of our front court should always be considered, from a PT standpoint, I don't think it's absolutely necessary.

Let these guys fight it out in training camp, preseason and the first month and a half of the regular season to see who earns the minutes and fits in best with the other players. Use the two months between December 15th, when trades become much more doable, and the trade deadline to determine if a trade is beneficial and one is available that improves our team. There is absolutely no reason to make any move before then (unless a no-brainer trade drops into Neil's lap).

BNM

Just depends on the health factor. If Ezeli's knee surgery was successful in bolstering his knee tendons, then he could be ready for a breakout season. Same with Leonard. He missed a lot of games with the shoulder injury last season. I could easily see both of those guys cracking 2,000 minutes this year, resulting in the logjam that we've been concerned about.
 
I'd still be looking at consolidating 2 bigs for Vucevic. An upgrade and more minutes for the rest of our bigs.. Something like:

Team A Gets: Mason Plumlee
Orlando Gets: Ed Davis, Team A 1st, 2018 CLE 1st
Portland Gets: Nikola Vucevic

That would leave us with an Aminu/Leonard/Vucevic/Ezeli/Vonleh frontcourt.

But better yet: A package around Vucevic has the potential to land Cousins.
 
Just depends on the health factor. If Ezeli's knee surgery was successful in bolstering his knee tendons, then he could be ready for a breakout season. Same with Leonard. He missed a lot of games with the shoulder injury last season. I could easily see both of those guys cracking 2,000 minutes this year, resulting in the logjam that we've been concerned about.

Yep. I never like to bring up the dreaded i-word, but it's part of the game, especially for big men. Having four big bodies, especially given the history of two of them, plus Aminu and Vonleh is a good thing. If they all prove healthy, we can always move one, or more, between 12/15 and the trade deadline in mid-February.

Given the organization's past history with centers, I think having "too many" is better than the other way around. We've got four guys that can play the center position. None of them are perfect, none of them are redundant. They all have their own unique strengths and weaknesses. It will be interesting to see how Terry uses them.

BNM
 
How 'bout we wait until January and then offer Allen Crabbe, Meyers and their pick out of Harkless/Aminu/Davis for Kevin Love?
 
Lol,

Not saying he was the most technically talented, but yes. Look at what all he has done, the different styles and he is up there, but I wold like to change that to top 20.

Stevie Ray Vaughn
Van Halen
Randy Rhodes
Jimi Hendrix
Jimmy Page
Keith Richards
Slash
BB King
Jeff Beck
Tony Iomi
Steve Vai
Santana
Townsend
Satriani
Les Paul
Dave Navarro
George Harrison
etc.


Thats how I would list them in aprox order without thinking much about it.
How the hell is George Harrison on that list, and Sammy Hagar isn't?
 
Whenever I read a greatest guitarist list there is never a Rory Gallagher or Richard Thomson anywhere on it. Hell. Richard Thompson is one of the greatest songwriters who ever lived as well. He should start getting his plaudits.
 
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What happens then though when a customer walks in and says. Im a metal head, but I need some smooth jazz for this party i'm throwing. He wont have a clue where to look. :)
That's why you hire knowledgeable people to work there...if I ran the place I'd tell them to check out Larry Carlton or Blueseum or Lee Ritnour, etc...Yellowjackets, Geri Allen, Cyrus Chestnut, Gerald Albright..and on and on. In other words, if you want to open a music store, you have to hire the occasional geezer like me to reference artists that aren't current pop stars
 
How 'bout we wait until January and then offer Allen Crabbe, Meyers and their pick out of Harkless/Aminu/Davis for Kevin Love?
No. Because
1.) Kevin Love is a horrible pick n roll defender and that's where we already struggle the most.
2.) The salaries wouldn't match. We'd need to take back another $12M in salary.
3.) Love doesn't fit our culture.
4.) Losing 3 role players for a guy that's not even an all star caliber player isn't a recipe for success.
 
Whenever I read a greatest guitarist list there is never a Rory Gallagher or Richard Thomson anywhere on it. Hell. Richard Thompson is one of the greatest songwriters who ever lived as well. He should start getting his plaudits.
I almost put Richard Thompson on there....my list did have Rory Gallagher though..I should have added Peter Green, Justin Hayward, Johnny Winter, Lowell George and Steve Miller
 
That's why you hire knowledgeable people to work there...if I ran the place I'd tell them to check out Larry Carlton or Blueseum or Lee Ritnour, etc...Yellowjackets, Geri Allen, Cyrus Chestnut, Gerald Albright..and on and on. In other words, if you want to open a music store, you have to hire the occasional geezer like me to reference artists that aren't current pop stars
Steve Lukather.
 
No. Because
1.) Kevin Love is a horrible pick n roll defender and that's where we already struggle the most.

A fair point.

2.) The salaries wouldn't match. We'd need to take back another $12M in salary.

Really? I think you need to remind yourself how much Allen Crabbe will earn next year. [Edit: Duh - misread you. See post below - Cleveland can unload Frye and/or Shumpert.]

3.) Love doesn't fit our culture.

Huh? We don't like people with rings?

4.) Losing 3 role players for a guy that's not even an all star caliber player isn't a recipe for success.

The rule of any trade is if you get the best player, you win. I've never been a huge Love fan, but he's the best player in that trade.
 
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Really? I think you need to remind yourself how much Allen Crabbe will earn next year.
I think you need to re read the response. He wasn't saying we weren't sending enough; rather that we'd be sending too much. Crabbe, Leonard, and one of Hark/Aminu/Davis would combine to around $35M. Love is only what, $21M?
 
I think you need to re read the response. He wasn't saying we weren't sending enough; rather that we'd be sending too much. Crabbe, Leonard, and one of Hark/Aminu/Davis would combine to around $35M. Love is only what, $21M?
Oh. Okay. My bad. We'll take back Channing Frye as well, then.
 

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