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SharpesTriumph said:
Only stat all time Kobe ranks highly on is missed shots. He's a chucker that had some great teammates and won a few titles with them.

I certainly think he's a hall of famer. But saying he's in the top20 or top10 of NBA all time is a joke. He's right there with Wade and Ginobili and many other great guards who won titles when paired with very good teammates. Without great teammates his teams were irrelevant and often in the lottery.
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Do you hate the Lakers?

Do you think his 12 all defensive nba team awards are a fraud?
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Many say he's on the same level as Lebron, top 5 all time, etc. I don't believe he belongs in that conversation.
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Jordan said Kobe was better than LeBron just because everybody thinks Kobe is the poor man's Jordan, so it was just a way of saying that he (Jordan) is better than LeBron.

Kobe's one truly elite feature was singlemindedness. Which is perilously close to assholery.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
Do you hate the Lakers?

Do you think his 12 all defensive nba team awards are a fraud?
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I used to hate the Lakers but don't really care enough to hate any more. I follow the whole league and history.

Magic and Shaq were both much better than Kobe. Magic is top5 all time, I have no problem acknowledging great Lakers such as him.

I think Kobe was a very good defender in his younger years but got later awards from reputation not his performance.

It's not like I'm saying he was bad. Wade and Ginobili were amazing players too just like Kobe and all of them can lead teams to a title. He is up there for players in NBA history just not close to top10 as many overrated him.

Kobe has an odd following and cult fans. If he spent his career in Minnesota or Indiana I suspect he'd be remembered much differently.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
I used to hate the Lakers but don't really care enough to hate any more. I follow the whole league and history.

Magic and Shaq were both much better than Kobe. Magic is top5 all time, I have no problem acknowledging great Lakers such as him.

I think Kobe was a very good defender in his younger years but got later awards from reputation not his performance.

It's not like I'm saying he was bad. Wade and Ginobili were amazing players too just like Kobe and all of them can lead teams to a title. Kobe just has an odd following and cult fans. If he spent his career in Minnesota or Indiana he'd be remembered much differently.
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Jordan and Lebron. Those guys won with top 50 players of all time on their squads. Are we dinging them for that?
 
SharpesTriumph said:
I used to hate the Lakers but don't really care enough to hate any more. I follow the whole league and history.

Magic and Shaq were both much better than Kobe. Magic is top5 all time, I have no problem acknowledging great Lakers such as him.

I think Kobe was a very good defender in his younger years but got later awards from reputation not his performance.

It's not like I'm saying he was bad. Wade and Ginobili were amazing players too just like Kobe and all of them can lead teams to a title. He is up there for players in NBA history just not close to top10 as many overrated him.

Kobe has an odd following and cult fans. If he spent his career in Minnesota or Indiana I suspect he'd be remembered much differently.
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For example, Kobe was never as good of a defender as Jrue Holiday, at any point. Certainly not after he was 30.
 
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I think Kobe is easily top 10. A tremendous athlete, he was also about as fundamentally sound as you can be. Over the course of his career he was unquestionably elite offensively and defensively. He was fiercely competitive and a winner. Guys like Jerry West, who could possibly be the best talent evaluator in NBA history, puts Kobe among the very best to ever play. He scored inside and out (not a great 3pt shooter) and obviously on the break. All Defensive team 12 times and an all star 18 times. 5 NBA titles, 2x Finals MVP. By any measure, he’s a top 10 player in my opinion.
 
Reed Sheppard may be overrated too. He was considered the front runner for ROTY. He averages about 3ppg. If that.
 
Oh another one- Haliburton. Played really well at start of last season and then fell off a cliff and has been so so. More Jamal Murray than DeAron Fox.
 
GoZers said:
I think Kobe is easily top 10. A tremendous athlete, he was also about as fundamentally sound as you can be. Over the course of his career he was unquestionably elite offensively and defensively. He was fiercely competitive and a winner. Guys like Jerry West, who could possibly be the best talent evaluator in NBA history, puts Kobe among the very best to ever play. He scored inside and out (not a great 3pt shooter) and obviously on the break. All Defensive team 12 times and an all star 18 times. 5 NBA titles, 2x Finals MVP. By any measure, he’s a top 10 player in my opinion.
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Some decent points you make but you just have to many people ranked above Kobe.

Career box score plus minus is a good list, Kobe is #30 since 1973.
 
PER is another decent stats to rank these all time greats. Can be misleading during a part of a season but it's more accurate when viewed over an entire career. Kobe is #29
 
SharpesTriumph said:
PER is another decent stats to rank these all time greats. Can be misleading during a part of a season but it's more accurate when viewed over an entire career. Kobe is #29
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I know when I'm rating the top 20 players of all time that Neil Johnston is almost top 10 for me.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
PER is another decent stats to rank these all time greats. Can be misleading during a part of a season but it's more accurate when viewed over an entire career. Kobe is #29
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Ok I disagree there because Kobe’s mediocre early years and late years should have no bearing on ranking Kobe’s or any player’s greatness.
 
I think you guys are forgetting the fact that AI gave us what might be the greatest press conference of all time; so good that DJ Jazzy Jeff mixed it into a song.



*NSFW Lyrics*
 
Stevenson said:
For the record @THE HCP :

Kareem: Career FG%: 55.9
Magic: Career FG%: 52.0
John Stockton: Career FG%: 51.5
Michael Jordan: Career FG%: 49.9
Larry Bird: Career FG%: 49.6
Reggie Miller: Career FG%: 47.1
Andre Miller: Career FG% 46.1
Carmelo Anthony: Career FG%: 44.7
Russell Westbrick, errrr Westbrook: Career FG%: 43.8

Allen Iverson: Career FG%: 42.5
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At this point, I'd take Scoot shooting 42.5%...
 
Phatguysrule said:
Lol. Top 25 is a hell of an accomplishment. That's not a diss.
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It cracks me up when the Kobe lovers get their panties twisted up when you say he was in the 20ish range of all time players. To be 20th best at something that probably a BILLION people have done at some point in their lives is a big freaking deal, but they act like you slapped him personally across the face.
 
bigbailes said:
It cracks me up when the Kobe lovers get their panties twisted up when you say he was in the 20ish range of all time players. To be 20th best at something that probably a BILLION people have done at some point in their lives is a big freaking deal, but they act like you slapped him personally across the face.
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The Kobe lovers are very odd, they have a personal delusional attachment to him that we don't see with the other great hall of fame players.

Maybe they enjoy that he was rapist.
 
bigbailes said:
It cracks me up when the Kobe lovers get their panties twisted up when you say he was in the 20ish range of all time players. To be 20th best at something that probably a BILLION people have done at some point in their lives is a big freaking deal, but they act like you slapped him personally across the face.
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It cracks me up when people downplay Kobe Bryant because they either hate the Lakers or hate Los Angeles altogether. Almost every list/publication/NBA historian, former player, etc., has Kobe on their all time top 10 list. For fun i just checked. ESPN, Hoopshype, CBM, Complex, The NYT, have him in there, which clearly doesn't mean everything but it obviously shows that thinking Kobe is top 10 is pretty common.
 
GoZers said:
It cracks me up when people downplay Kobe Bryant because they either hate the Lakers or hate Los Angeles altogether. Almost every list/publication/NBA historian, former player, etc., has Kobe on their all time top 10 list. For fun i just checked. ESPN, Hoopshype, CBM, Complex, The NYT, have him in there, which clearly doesn't mean everything but it obviously shows that thinking Kobe is top 10 is pretty common.
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People also voted Westbrook for MVP for a team that finished 6th in the west. Sometimes the mainstream media makes dumb choices.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
People also voted Westbrook for MVP for a team that finished 6th in the west. Sometimes the mainstream media makes dumb choices.
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I agree. One of those examples was Dame making the 75th team instead of Kyrie Irving.
 
GoZers said:
It cracks me up when people downplay Kobe Bryant because they either hate the Lakers or hate Los Angeles altogether. Almost every list/publication/NBA historian, former player, etc., has Kobe on their all time top 10 list. For fun i just checked. ESPN, Hoopshype, CBM, Complex, The NYT, have him in there, which clearly doesn't mean everything but it obviously shows that thinking Kobe is top 10 is pretty common.
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Looking at ESPN, they have him #9. They also have Shaq, the Big-O, and Hakeem behind him. I personally would put all 3 ahead of Kobe. I think 12 is a reasonable place for him.
 
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