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wizenheimer said:
continuing the autopsy on the demise of the Pac-12...a video that summarizes the timeline last week:



to summarize:

the deal Kliavkoff outlined on Wednesday, was not the actual GOR that he presented to the presidents on Friday morning. On Wednesday, he had said he had a 23m/year offer from Apple, AND a potential linear TV deal for premier games that would ad another 2-5M/year. And the potential fro a lot more money if subscriptions could get to the 1.7M level (which was crazy). But on Friday, all he actually had was the Apple offer for streaming only with no linear TV package. And the 23M/year was bullshit because Apple was demanding that the conference pay all production costs for the game. That would cost each school about 5M/year

in other words, the actual offer was in the 16-20M/year range for streaming only

the production cost component has been confirmed:

View attachment 57181



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this entire situation has been a slow-moving train-wreck sine the PAC hired Larry Scott. Missteps and miscalculations every step of the way. The reporting that Oregon/Washington didn't even show up for the Friday conference is false. They did, but realized immediately that Kliavkoff had been shoveling malarkey about what he had lined up; so they said bye and left for the Big-10; Oregon first, then Washington. Then the 3 other corner schools for the Big-12 although it's clear that the Arizona schools actually had left before Ducks/Huskies
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Sad. They ran the conference into the ground over the last 15 years.
 
it has been mentioned here, but a year ago, the LA Times had an article detailing how it was USC, and it's president, who essentially killed the move to bring several Big-12 teams into the Pac-12 after Texas/Oklahoma defected to the SEC. Then 10 months later USC announced it was joining the BIG, along with UCLA

it would be extremely naive to believe that USC wasn't already hoping/planning to leave the PAC when they torpedoed the potential merger of the Pac-12 with some of the Big-12. This was a strategy on their part to get into the BIG while at the same time locking up the Southern California recruiting area. Specifically, the comments from USC power brokers clearly demonstrate that USC feared what Oregon was able to do against them, on the field, and in LA recruiting

USC wanted the Pac-12 to be effectively neutered as a Power-5 conference, and they desperately wanted Oregon to be part of the neutering

upload_2023-8-10_10-12-7.png

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2022-07-29/usc-president-carol-folt-pac-12-expansion

USC has always been a arrogant piece of shit institution. That they would actively work to destroy the Pac-12 is despicable.

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another autopsy from USA Today (if you can stomach all the adds) that actually lays the foundation of the current situation as a 1984 SCOTUS ruling saying the NCAA did NOT have an anti-trust exemption so it could not legally control all media contracts.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...m_term=hero&utm_content=usat-mclean-nletter06
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wizenheimer said:
it has been mentioned here, but a year ago, the LA Times had an article detailing how it was USC, and it's president, who essentially killed the move to bring several Big-12 teams into the Pac-12 after Texas/Oklahoma defected to the SEC. Then 10 months later USC announced it was joining the BIG, along with UCLA

it would be extremely naive to believe that USC wasn't already hoping/planning to leave the PAC when they torpedoed the potential merger of the Pac-12 with some of the Big-12. This was a strategy on their part to get into the BIG while at the same time locking up the Southern California recruiting area. Specifically, the comments from USC power brokers clearly demonstrate that USC feared what Oregon was able to do against them, on the field, and in LA recruiting

USC wanted the Pac-12 to be effectively neutered as a Power-5 conference, and they desperately wanted Oregon to be part of the neutering

View attachment 57184

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2022-07-29/usc-president-carol-folt-pac-12-expansion

USC has always been a arrogant piece of shit institution. That they would actively work to destroy the Pac-12 is despicable.

**********************************************************************************

another autopsy from USA Today (if you can stomach all the adds) that actually lays the foundation of the current situation as a 1984 SCOTUS ruling saying the NCAA did NOT have an anti-trust exemption so it could not legally control all media contracts.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...m_term=hero&utm_content=usat-mclean-nletter06
***********************************************************************************
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They were clearly scorched earth.

They are so threatened by UO and our ability to recruit in their backyard that they were clearly hoping to move on to the B1G and then burn the bridge behind them. They wanted to kill the Ducks as a top tier school. Completely fucked up. They didn't give a shit about anyone.
 
It wasn't USC that ultimately killed the PAC. It was the Ducks and Huskies. The PAC would have survived had they not bolted. The Ducks and Huskies just followed the $ signs rather than see the PAC survive.
 
tlongII said:
It wasn't USC that ultimately killed the PAC. It was the Ducks and Huskies. The PAC would have survived had they not bolted. The Ducks and Huskies just followed the $ signs rather than see the PAC survive.
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Stay in the PAC (without Arizona, Arizona State, or Colorado) at half what the Big12 gets from their GOR and a quarter of what the Big10 gets?

That's suicide. The PAC was already dead.
 
kjironman1 said:
PIL in football was very strong when I grew up. Madison vs Grant and Benson was what it was all about. Course now you can't call it Madison any longer. Notice the color of my avatar. Blue and Red baby!
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Bloods and Crips?
 
HailBlazers said:
And getting half the money as Rutgers is not?
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Well, it's not ideal, but it beats getting a quarter of Rutgers like staying in the PAC would have gotten them...

And they get a full share for the next GOR...

I hate that the PAC is dying. Absolutely hate it. I love what Oregon State is doing.

But I honestly can't fault the Ducks for the decision they made...
 
Can't have a west coast league without LA schools. Once LA schools left the Pac was doomed.

Not sure how this will play out in the years ahead. Seems like the 4 schools being in Big10 will have travel issues and possibly consider doing something different in later years or reforming the Pac.

But with all teams in different conferences with different media deal expiration dates that would be near impossible to line up.

Seems like Oregon State would be better just going independent like BYU and try to push a new streaming service than get some 4 million per year WAC TV deal.
 
USC has firmly
Phatguysrule said:
Stay in the PAC (without Arizona, Arizona State, or Colorado) at half what the Big12 gets from their GOR and a quarter of what the Big10 gets?

That's suicide. The PAC was already dead.
Click to expand...
The AZ schools and Utah only bolted AFTER oregon and washington decided to take the money. I don't blame either of them for going to the B10 but make no mistake, they along with the LA schools are the ones that put the final nail in the coffin.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Can't have a west coast league without LA schools. Once LA schools left the Pac was doomed.

Not sure how this will play out in the years ahead. Seems like the 4 schools being in Big10 will have travel issues and possibly consider doing something different in later years or reforming the Pac.

But with all teams in different conferences with different media deal expiration dates that would be near impossible to line up.

Seems like Oregon State would be better just going independent like BYU and try to push a new streaming service than get some 4 million per year WAC TV deal.
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Oregon State doesn't have nearly the national brand that BYU does ... the Beavs would get killed trying to go at it on their own. The mormons will follow around BYU and watch whatever crappy network they have until the end of time.
 
bigbailes said:
USC has firmly

The AZ schools and Utah only bolted AFTER oregon and washington decided to take the money. I don't blame either of them for going to the B10 but make no mistake, they along with the LA schools are the ones that put the final nail in the coffin.
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Not how I've heard it. The AZ schools were already gone and were just waiting for the Big12 to make it official.
 
tlongII said:
It wasn't USC that ultimately killed the PAC. It was the Ducks and Huskies. The PAC would have survived had they not bolted. The Ducks and Huskies just followed the $ signs rather than see the PAC survive.
Click to expand...

USC wanted the PAC (and Ducks) to suffer. If the PAC is a lesser league, it gives the SoCal teams an advantage in recruiting and keeping West Coast top recruits. That’s why they’re so upset the Ducks followed suit. They thought they pulled a fast one and had gained an advantage.
 
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I currently have as much interest in future of the 8 soon-to-be former Pac-12 schools as I do in Lillard's future.

He said he heard about a couple living in the USA.
He said they traded in their baby for a Chevrolet.
Let's talk about the future now we've put the past away.

they think that I've got no respect
but everything means less than zero

barfo
 
Phatguysrule said:
Not how I've heard it. The AZ schools were already gone and were just waiting for the Big12 to make it official.
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Thats what various Bay Area media covering the story from Cal and Stanford's viewpoints are reporting.

STOMP
 
Phatguysrule said:
Stay in the PAC (without Arizona, Arizona State, or Colorado) at half what the Big12 gets from their GOR and a quarter of what the Big10 gets?

That's suicide. The PAC was already dead.
Click to expand...

Arizona, ASU, and Colorado would not have left for the Big 12 if UO and UW stayed in the PAC.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Bloods and Crips?
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Actually we had problems then with what were called “Gook Wars”. Terrible name I agree.
The influx of Vietnamese and a place called Halsey Square had a huge effect on the area.
Bloods and Crips came right after.
 
STOMP said:
Thats what various Bay Area media covering the story from Cal and Stanford's viewpoints are reporting.

STOMP
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Pretty much everything I've read have stated as much. In fact, it was pretty obvious the AZ schools were gone on Thursday.

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...s-arizona-deal-big-12-expected-finalized-soon

The expected move by Arizona has been viewed as a key fulcrum for the future of the Pac-12, which presented a primarily streaming-based deal with Apple to its membership Tuesday. That doesn't appear to have rallied the league together, as Arizona's intentions to finalize the deal with the Big 12 have emerged since the Pac-12 presentation. It's unknown how the move would impact that deal
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AZ was as good as gone as soon as they saw the Apple deal.
 
tlongII said:
Arizona, ASU, and Colorado would not have left for the Big 12 if UO and UW stayed in the PAC.
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Then why did their board of regents meet the night before and every bit of reporting said that Arizona was gone?

You guys so desperately want to blame UO for this, when they were basically the 5th school to leave.
 
tlongII said:
It wasn't USC that ultimately killed the PAC. It was the Ducks and Huskies. The PAC would have survived had they not bolted. The Ducks and Huskies just followed the $ signs rather than see the PAC survive.
Click to expand...

that's a total crock-of-shit. It's a whiny, woe is us we-did-nothing-wrong-beavers-were-innocent-victims-of-the-evil-ducks-none-of-it-is-our-fault holier than thou nonsense

I don't have the connections I used to have, but I do have a couple and I'll repeat some things that I have been told, most of which is easy to confirm. :

* the first big mistake that Pac-12 made was hiring Larry Scott and allowing him to have the conference form an independent Pac-12 network. Rob Mullens and Phil Knight were against it and Oregon wanted the PAC to form a broadcast/streaming partnership like the Big-10 has with FOX and the SEC has with. But most schools were enthusiastic about the crap Scott was selling and that includes OSU and WSU whose presidents were two of the biggest Scott cheerleaders along with ASU's president. If ESPN, for instance, had a big investment in the Pac-12 network and were a primary partner, they would have been much less likely to abandon the PAC when the next round of media GOR was being negotiated. That decision went a long way in killing the PAC and it was OSU on the stupid side of it

* in 2021, when Texas/Oklahoma announced they were leaving the Big-12 for the SEC, the Big-12 was a shipwreck. In the next month or so, several of the premier Big-12 schools called the PAC and negotiated with Kliavkoff about joining the Pac-12. Kliavkoff called for a meeting of Pac-12 presidents to vote on the issue of expansion with selected Big-12 teams. Oregon was in favor of expansion and argued for it. USC led the charge AGAINST expansion and OSU/WSU both voted with USC (IIRC the vote was 8-4 against). If the Pac-12 had done the expansion, there would have been nowhere else for ESPN and Fox to have gone for their media deals. This was another nail in the coffin for the Pac-12 and again, OSU was on the stupid side

* a few months after that, Kliavkoff was deep into negotiations with ESPN, FOX, and Amazon about a new media GOR. By all reports, the media companies were prepared to sign a deal that would have paid Pac-12 teams slightly more than what the Big-12 signed for in the vacuum of Pac-12 hubris. Again, Oregon was in favor of accepting the deal. And again, the majority said no, and that majority included OSU & WSU

* finally, as has been widely reported, the deal(s) Kliavkoff told the Pac-12 presidents, last Wednesday, he had lined up was a base streaming package with 23M/year per school in payout with subscription escalators; and that he had several different media interested in a linear TV package that would add 2-6M/year more. But when he presented the actual deal Friday morning, not only didn't it have any linear TV component; and not only did it have unreachable subscription thresholds, it included a clause from Apple that said the conference was responsible for all production costs which was estimated to deduct at least 5M/year from each school's payout. Meaning the actual deal was for 16-18M/year....all on a streaming platform

it was a classic bait & switch and that's when Oregon/Washington finally said enough

If you're going to single out any school for destroying the Pac-12, it was USC. As I linked above, when Kliavkoff came to the presidents advocating the Pac-12 expand with 4-6 Big-12 teams, it was USC's president who was most responsible for scuttling the deal. And just a few months later, USC bolted to the BIG. It would be incredibly naive to think this wasn't a strategy to neuter the PAC-12 and especially neuter Oregon in their ability to recruit southern California

and if you're wanting to point a finger at one of the Oregon schools, point it at OSU for it's constant 'we-believe-in-Larry-Scott's-pie-in-the-sky' wishful thinking

when this all started, I was feeling bad for OSU; hoping they might find a soft landing somewhere. But as Beaver fans, and even OSU officials, have tried to blame Oregon for this situation; as the beaver bile and venom has been spewed at the Ducks; as they try and act like innocent blameless victims in all this, I find I don't give a shit about the Beavers any more. Maybe they will somehow climb into the Big-12 on a reduced share; doubtful but possible I suppose. If not, enjoy the MWC
 
Natebishop3 said:
Then why did their board of regents meet the night before and every bit of reporting said that Arizona was gone?

You guys so desperately want to blame UO for this, when they were basically the 5th school to leave.
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practically speaking, assuming all the reporting about Arizona/ASU is accurate (which it is), Oregon was the 6th school to leave; UofW 7th; Utah 8th
 
wizenheimer said:
practically speaking, assuming all the reporting about Arizona/ASU is accurate (which it is), Oregon was the 6th school to leave; UofW 7th; Utah 8th
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Everything I had read was that ASU was dragging their feet but Arizona was gone. Of that Zona/ASU/Utah trio, I think ASU and Utah wanted to stay for some reason.
 
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