Pirates, Ninjas, Vikings (Was Big Time Centers Rookie #'s)

[THE HCP]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Hey Rizz, nice try. This is a waste of time man. I hope these cats go back to their teams forum instead of ours. No more starting threads for me. Next time I see Greg (tomorrow afternoon) I'll let him know how this went!

 

[GMJ]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

I guess your right in that cpaw is clueless and didnt understand the simple point HCP was trying to make

That's not what I was conveying. Quote the part of my post that lead you to believe that and I would be more than happy to make myself clear.

How can anyone forget Wilt's numbers?

37.6 ppg, 27 rpg,

blocks weren't counted. Although his field goal percentage was his career worst in his rookie year at 46%.

"Awesome. As a fan of Oden that's all I need to consider in terms of what I can expect from him this year."

 

[DaRizzle]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Keep it up DaRizzle. Keep making the thread about me instead of the topic.

lol...you killed it with you needless bashing of a quality poster. I saw that and took a stand because i dont want HCP to bail because of ridiculously stupid comments. I wanted to let him know there werent just idiots here...oh Im definitely NOT fucking with you

HCP>You every day of the week

 

[DaRizzle]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Hey Rizz, nice try. This is a waste of time man. I hope these cats go back to their teams forum instead of ours. No more starting threads for me. Next time I see Greg (tomorrow afternoon) I'll let him know how this went!

So when are you hiring that flunky you need?

 

[GMJ]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Hey Rizz, nice try. This is a waste of time man. I hope these cats go back to their teams forum instead of ours. No more starting threads for me. Next time I see Greg (tomorrow afternoon) I'll let him know how this went!

Actually I would thank Rizz for arguing your point while you've sat back and been to lazy to support your own ideas. He's been brilliant in providing the opinion of one party while acknowledging the ideas of the other. All you've done recently is insert some quip about "woes me, I'll never create another Blazer thread" and no one is buying it. Step up to the plate, my man!

 

[DaRizzle]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

He did in the beginning and then got fed up with the stupid responses he was getting back...I took the liberty of taking over when he left since you guys nitpicked his thread to death

 

[THE HCP]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

So when are you hiring that flunky you need?

Just wear that jersey opening night!

 

[DaRizzle]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Just wear that jersey opening night!

Oh so the front row ticket is in the mail then?

 

[THE HCP]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Actually I would thank Rizz for arguing your point while you've sat back and been to lazy to support your own ideas. He's been brilliant in providing the opinion of one party while acknowledging the ideas of the other. All you've done recently is insert some quip about "woes me, I'll never create another Blazer thread" and no one is buying it. Step up to the plate, my man!

This is why I used to never go to the OT thread. All they do is argue about bull shit! I'll come on here and discuss "basketball", but not how I should or should not start a thread. This is a waste of time. I have to be at work early tomorrow and you guys are not even talking about hoops. You don't even know me, and now I'm lazy.

 

[GMJ]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

He did in the beginning and then got fed up with the stupid responses he was getting back...I took the liberty of taking over when he left since you guys nitpicked his thread to death

Ok, and I'll say that's true, since we're (Cpaw if I'm incorrectly speaking for you, stop me) having a problem with the structure of his rhetor. However I'd say the points that we're arguing over are fair, and valid in terms of creating quality discussion and analysis.

Anyone can say only talk about the positives of a player, but to what end? At some point you've got to take your time and be precise. After all, that's what's keeping "Sean Williams is a first round pick, and there fore he can be Wilt and Kareem" threads from popping up in the Nets forum.

 

[DennisRodman]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Oden will pwn each poster here.

Ok, and I'll say that's true, since we're (Cpaw if I'm incorrectly speaking for you, stop me) having a problem with the structure of his rhetor. However I'd say the points that we're arguing over are fair, and valid in terms of creating quality discussion and analysis.

Anyone can say only talk about the positives of a player, but to what end? At some point you've got to take your time and be precise. After all, that's what's keeping "Sean Williams is a first round pick, and there fore he can be Wilt and Kareem" threads from popping up in the Nets forum.

Don`t tell that to Kobe fans, he clearly does no wrong!

 

[cpawfan]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

This is why I used to never go to the OT thread. All they do is argue about bull shit! I'll come on here and discuss "basketball", but not how I should or should not start a thread. This is a waste of time. I have to be at work early tomorrow and you guys are not even talking about hoops. You don't even know me, and now I'm lazy.

Well discuss basketball. I've asked you multiple times what you wanted to discuss about these numbers since it was obvious that you didn't want to discuss the merit of the numbers.

 

[DennisRodman]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

What is Oden`s middle name?

 

[DaRizzle]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Ok, and I'll say that's true, since we're (Cpaw if I'm incorrectly speaking for you, stop me) having a problem with the structure of his rhetor. However I'd say the points that we're arguing over are fair, and valid in terms of creating quality discussion and analysis.

Anyone can say only talk about the positives of a player, but to what end? At some point you've got to take your time and be precise. After all, that's what's keeping "Sean Williams is a first round pick, and there fore he can be Wilt and Kareem" threads from popping up in the Nets forum.

Your right...lets start a thread titled "The All encompassing Greg Oden thread" and point out every single way we want to analyze him in that one thread. No other thread about him is allowed. God forbid these POR fans want to talk about HOF aspirations in this thread and not talk about how he has the chance to be the next Kwame Brown....Damn them!!!!

 

[GMJ]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

This is why I used to never go to the OT thread. All they do is argue about bull shit! I'll come on here and discuss "basketball", but not how I should or should not start a thread. This is a waste of time. I have to be at work early tomorrow and you guys are not even talking about hoops. You don't even know me, and now I'm lazy.

Well this is correct. Yeah, this is something that I can support 100% believe it or not.

You see the issue at hand is not the subject of your discussion, but rather the quality of the structure of your argument. Lets consider what you just said (see: quoted). Is Oden's potential based on how well we "know" you? No? Then is it relevant? Oden has the luxury of being disjointed from both our parties, and we can both talk about his potential as outsiders who have no influence on his success. Now that we can objectively say that familiarity of a poster is irrelevant, we can start to critique other forms of your argument that in the end will only make you a better poster. The most evident, obviously, is the issue of you presenting evidence that is biased toward your opinion without giving any considerations to the opposition.

This may be a bit unfamiliar, but this level of basketball discussion is the standard that you will find on this site. It was rough for myself as well (I used to hate the shit out of cpaw ), but in the end as I became used to people challenging my views, I became a better basketball analysis.

 

[DennisRodman]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Your right...lets start a thread titled "The All encompassing Greg Oden thread" and point out every single way we want to analyze him in that one thread. No other thread about him is allowed. God forbid these POR fans want to talk about HOF aspirations in this thread and not talk about how he has the chance to be the next Kwame Brown....Damn them!!!!

Well they should at least keep threads speculating about Oden in their own forum, so it won't offend others.

 

[DaRizzle]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Well they should at least keep threads speculating about Oden in their own forum, so it won't offend others.

Yes! We need a POR sub sub sub sub form for the ambitious threads! Gotta hide those!

 

[DennisRodman]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Yes! We need a POR sub sub sub sub form for the ambitious threads! Gotta hide those!

Precisely!!!!! Gee Whiz I think he has solved the riddle of our lives.

 

[GMJ]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Your right...lets start a thread titled "The All encompassing Greg Oden thread" and point out every single way we want to analyze him in that one thread. No other thread about him is allowed. God forbid these POR fans want to talk about HOF aspirations in this thread and not talk about how he has the chance to be the next Kwame Brown....Damn them!!!!

You've done a great way in isolating the precise matter at hand. While I think you and I can agree that few Portland fans here would want to spend time talking about how Oden might fail, you can also acknowledge the situation at hand:

You say that Portland fans would so obviously want to talk about the positive things, and in fact in that post use sarcasm to denote how obvious that is...

...do you not sense that there might be a bias?

 

[DaRizzle]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

sigh..Im going to bed...goodnight all

 

[GMJ]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Yes! We need a POR sub sub sub sub form for the ambitious threads! Gotta hide those!

haha my friend, all I can say is that you've joined a forum where fans of a specific team do thoroughly enjoy talking about many other teams, as their enjoyment of the game of basketball extends to teams other than their own.

 

[THE HCP]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

sigh..Im going to bed...goodnight all

I am too.............. with your sister!

 

[julius]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

so...anyways...

I think that Oden should have a rookie season in the ballpark of those #'s. I don't think that comparing him to the other big men who came out in the last 20 years (or so) is valid, because very few of those guys were touted as highly as Greg has been.

I know I'm a relative "newbie" but it rubbed me the wrong way how this thread was hijacked by people.

 

[cpawfan]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

so...anyways...

I think that Oden should have a rookie season in the ballpark of those #'s. I don't think that comparing him to the other big men who came out in the last 20 years (or so) is valid, because very few of those guys were touted as highly as Greg has been.

I know I'm a relative "newbie" but it rubbed me the wrong way how this thread was hijacked by people.

Eliminating the last 20 years takes out Howard, Duncan (who wasn't on the list in the first post), Shaq and Zo (who wasn't on the list in the first post) among others.

Also, by going back that far, almost every comparison is going to be to a player that was significantly older than Greg when they were rookies. There is Moses Malone, but then you are looking at ABA stats.

 

[mook]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Rather than whine about the original poster's data, I took 5 minutes to rebuild it with what I thought was useful. I didn't bother to check exact age on my source--it's based on their first NBA season's year (say, "1988" for the 88-89 season) minus their birthday year (say, 1972). (In my example, the player is listed as 26. I'm too lazy to work any harder than that.)

Anyway, I left out blocks per game because it wasn't listed in a column at BasketballReference.com.

<table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 299pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="398"><col style="width: 107pt;" width="142"> <col style="width: 48pt;" span="4" width="64"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt; width: 107pt;" width="142" height="17">
</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 48pt;" width="64">Age</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 48pt;" width="64">PPG</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 48pt;" width="64">Rebs</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 48pt;" width="64">FG%</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Howard</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">19</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">12</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">10</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">0.520</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Moses Malone</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">19</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">19</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">14</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="0.57099999999999995">0.571</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Oden</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">20</td> <td class="xl24">?</td> <td class="xl24">?</td> <td class="xl24">?</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Shaq</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">20</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">23</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">14</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="0.56200000000000006">0.562</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Olajuwon</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">21</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">20</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">12</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="0.53800000000000003">0.538</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Duncan</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">21</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">21</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">12</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="0.54900000000000004">0.549</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Yao</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">22</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">13</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">8</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="0.498">0.498</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Mourning</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">22</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">21</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">10</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="0.51100000000000001">0.511</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Ewing</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">24</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">20</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">9</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="0.47399999999999998">0.474</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Robinson</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">24</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">24</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="">12</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="0.53100000000000003">0.531</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

 

[mook]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

My take on my own (not terribly rigorous) rookie data is that Oden is almost a certain lock for double-digit rebounding and scoring. 20 ppg seems a bit high, but he ought to do better than Howard or Yao.

Yao was incredibly soft entering the league, and he played beside real chuckers in Francis/Mobley.

In his first year Howard could only score on dunks, and that was if you couldn't foul him before he got the shot up. And he just wasn't very aggressive with his shot.

I'm looking for around 15 ppg and 12 rebounds, with FG% in the mid-to-high .500's.

 

[cpawfan]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Amare as a 20 year old rookie (using the same scale as mook) averaged 14.6 PPG after the All Star game. He played with two 20+ PPG scorers in Marbury and Marion.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Jesus tits on toast.

I confess I ran out of steam reading all the posts in this thread, but I did get the gist of HCP's original intent to show that those centers he listed represent the bar by which we can measure Greg's rookie season against. This clearly wasn't some attempt to project what Greg will do in his rookie year.

A little reading comprehension goes a long ways.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Breakdown of how I see Oden doing this year on the low end. I could easily see him exceeding the points, presuming he gets 3-4 offensive rebounds he'll score 6 pts a game on putbacks. Rebound wise I think it's safe to say he'll get 10 a game. Blocks could be higher but at the minimum I think 3

10-12 shot attempts shooting 60% 12 pts
5-6 free throws a game shooting 75% 4.5 pts
Total scoring roughly 16 pts a game.

Rebounds minimum 10 per game probably closer to 12

Blocks-3 per game

 

[cpawfan]

Re: Big Time Centers Rookie #'s

Jesus tits on toast.

I confess I ran out of steam reading all the posts in this thread, but I did get the gist of HCP's original intent to show that those centers he listed represent the bar by which we can measure Greg's rookie season against. This clearly wasn't some attempt to project what Greg will do in his rookie year.

A little reading comprehension goes a long ways.

So disagreeing that it was the bar by which to measure Greg's rookie season isn't allowed?