Post-deadline Olshey Keep or Fire

[chzbrgr]

One thing that is always interesting to look back on is how are the players who are gone doing now? How are the players he missed on doing now? I lokk back over the list and there are only a couple guys I really think I would want back or wish had signed based on rumored offers. Will Barton, Hasaan Whiteside and maybe Nic Batum... maybe.

What about guys like Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Malik Beasley (the 1st rounder we traded to Denver for Afflalo along with Barton) or Malcom Brogdon (one of the 2nd rounders we sent to Sac for Robin Lopez)? If you dive into all of his transactions it is not a great list of characters and if you include the guys he offered and got rebuffed it only gets worse. Guys like Roy Hibbert and Chandler Parsons start coming up and boy does that make Neil look more lucky than good.

 

[Schilly]

Looking back on the overall signings for summer 2016...

Batum 5 years 120mil (12/4/4)
D Howard 3 years 70mil
Parsons 4 years 98.5mil (9/3/2)
Bazemore 4 years 70mil (14/4/3.6)
R Anderson 4 years 80mil (10/5/1)
Biyombo 4 years 72mil (6/6/1)
Marvin Williams 4 years 54mil (9.5/4.8/1)
Fournier 5 years 85mil (18/3/3)
H Barnes 4 years 94mil (18/7/2)
Crabbe 4 years 75mil (12/4/2)
Mahinmi 4 years 64mil (4/4/1)
Afflalo 2 years 25mil (3/1.5/0.7)
Noah 4 years 72mil (exiled from team)
Luol Deng 4 years 72mil (2/0/1)
Tyler Johnson 4 years 50mil (11/3/2)
Mozgov 4 years 65mil (4/3/0)
Solomon Hill 4 years 52mil (7/4/2 last year)
John Leuer 4 years 42mil (5.4/4/0.6)

Harkless 4 years 40mil (5.6/2.7/0.7)
Leonard 4 years 41mil (3.9/2.0/0.5)
Turner 4 years 70mil (8.3/3.4/2.2)

Just some comparative numbers to consider.

 

[Schilly]

What about guys like Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Malik Beasley (the 1st rounder we traded to Denver for Afflalo along with Barton) or Malcom Brogdon (one of the 2nd rounders we sent to Sac for Robin Lopez)? If you dive into all of his transactions it is not a great list of characters and if you include the guys he offered and got rebuffed it only gets worse. Guys like Roy Hibbert and Chandler Parsons start coming up and boy does that make Neil look more lucky than good.

I think that is completely selective analysis.

Hibbert the summer we made the offer to him was 25 and had just come off an All Star season and a strong playoff run with the Pacers. Averaged 12.8pts, 8.7 rebounds and 2.0 blocks per game. Indiana matched the offer sheet which was essentially 4 years and $58mil

We don't know what Portland offered Parsons, but who boy in looking at the contract the Grizzlies gave him I'm glad they outbid us.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The fact that all you need is names means you’ve missed the point completely. But since you asked so nicely....

Troy Weaver
Brian Wright
Chauncey Billups
Tommy Shepard
Austin Ainge
Dave Lewin
Brian Pauga.

All with promising futures and/or have had an integral part in building a contending roster in more ways than one. Troy Weaver will be someone’s GM within the next couple years, might as well be ours.

And then in 2 years when they dont do much, you will want them gone too.

I think you missed the point. you said might as well be ours.. as if we could just get anyone.

I love how the same people who say we cant get people to come here, jsut think we cna get anyone to come here.

Lets just pay them more..

SOO glad you guys arent my financial advisers..

 

[tester551]

Again, if you look back at the board comments in July 2016, there were plenty of people who opined:

A) $70M for Turner was ridiculous, even in the new economy;
B) $75M for Crabbe was unreasonable, even in the new economy;
C) $41M for Meyers made no sense, regardless of what any other team might have offered him;
D) Extending CJ was unnecessary, since we could just as easily max him in RFA summer of 2017.​

If a wide-swath of ignorant message-board geeks could reach several if not all of those conclusions at the time (not solely in hindsight), it's not unreasonable to think that Olshey should have been able to see some of them.

I nominate this for the best post of the year.

Sadly, there are a few who are so ignorant to actually comprehend what the results of that were

 

[Hobbesarable]

The fact that all you need is names means you’ve missed the point completely. But since you asked so nicely....

Troy Weaver
Brian Wright
Chauncey Billups
Tommy Shepard
Austin Ainge
Dave Lewin
Brian Pauga.

All with promising futures and/or have had an integral part in building a contending roster in more ways than one. Troy Weaver will be someone’s GM within the next couple years, might as well be ours.

I would add Mike Zarren to that list as well.

 

[tester551]

And then in 2 years when they dont do much, you will want them gone too.

I think you missed the point. you said might as well be ours.. as if we could just get anyone.

I love how the same people who say we cant get people to come here, jsut think we cna get anyone to come here.

Lets just pay them more..

SOO glad you guys arent my financial advisers..

It's asinine to have that attitude. There are only so many roster spots available.

The right approach for the non-difference makers (90% of the league) is to place a value on everyone & if they don't like your offer - move onto the next one.

 

[AFully22]

And then in 2 years when they dont do much, you will want them gone too.

I think you missed the point. you said might as well be ours.. as if we could just get anyone.

I love how the same people who say we cant get people to come here, jsut think we cna get anyone to come here.

Lets just pay them more..

SOO glad you guys arent my financial advisers..

Are you really asking why any of those guys would take a promotion for more money to take a job working for the second richest owner at a team that already has a three time all star?

This would be a step up for everyone on that list. I’m guessing you have no idea who they are and are too lazy to do some research into their background. You asked for names, I gave them to you. Then you use a cop out and say “in two years when they don’t do much” like that has any factual reasoning behind it lol. You like Olshey, that’s fine, but those are logical alternatives should PA choose that route.

 

[tester551]

Locking a player like CJ up with an extension is a far safer thing than letting him have the option of signing a 1 year QO and walking.

That's a complete falicy.
No player worth a damn has signed a 1 yr QO & then walked.

There have been some who thought they were better that they were - so they took the QO, but more often than not it doesn't end well for the player.

 

[LayneStaley]

Backtracked on what? Please show evidence that Turner had another contract offer. Until then, using that insinuation as a fact is a failure.

I’m not saying he had another contract offer, which makes the overpay even worse, I’m saying the only reason he came to Portland was because of the massive overpay and he even said that it was too much money to turn down. Later he backtracked saying he took the offer because he actually wanted to be in Portland. I hope the following is hanging in Neil’s office.

 

[tester551]

Not if another team put in a huge trade kicker.

Trade kickers can't take you above the max....

 

[Orion Bailey]

Are you really asking why any of those guys would take a promotion for more money to take a job working for the second richest owner at a team that already has a three time all star?

This would be a step up for everyone on that list. I’m guessing you have no idea who they are and are too lazy to do some research into their background. You asked for names, I gave them to you. Then you use a cop out and say “in two years when they don’t do much” like that has any factual reasoning behind it lol. You like Olshey, that’s fine, but those are logical alternatives should PA choose that route.

Dude, have you read my posts? I've said this from the get go. I didnt use it as a copout. Go back and read the thread.

I actually dont care for Olshey. He is a little too used car salesman for me... with that said Im not into making changes for change sake. Have a plan. have a proven upgrade. Not take a chance on a possible upgrade, which is what NO is under the gun for with the contracts to Meyers and Turner. He banked on them getting better. Now you are banking on some unknown to do better.

Sorry, not good enough for me.

 

[CupWizier]

I need flood insurance. So much crying in this forum that the tears are up over my Nike's.

 

[chzbrgr]

I think that is completely selective analysis.

Hibbert the summer we made the offer to him was 25 and had just come off an All Star season and a strong playoff run with the Pacers. Averaged 12.8pts, 8.7 rebounds and 2.0 blocks per game. Indiana matched the offer sheet which was essentially 4 years and $58mil

We don't know what Portland offered Parsons, but who boy in looking at the contract the Grizzlies gave him I'm glad they outbid us.

Not sure how a list of his record as a gm is selective when you included Hassan Whiteside in your analysis so....

 

[dviss1]

What about guys like Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Malik Beasley (the 1st rounder we traded to Denver for Afflalo along with Barton) or Malcom Brogdon (one of the 2nd rounders we sent to Sac for Robin Lopez)? If you dive into all of his transactions it is not a great list of characters and if you include the guys he offered and got rebuffed it only gets worse. Guys like Roy Hibbert and Chandler Parsons start coming up and boy does that make Neil look more lucky than good.

Pat+Nurk >> Plums+RHJ

 

[Schilly]

Not sure how a list of his record as a gm is selective when you included Hassan Whiteside in your analysis so....

Not sure where I included Whiteside...If you are taking about the list of contracts I put up I didn't include Lebron or Durant either, nor did I include guys like Eric Gordon. It was more of a comparison for relevant Value. Unless you meen somethign else.

My overall takeaway on Neil isn't that he's some great world class GM, I just don't think he's fire worthy as of yet.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Not sure where I included Whiteside...If you are taking about the list of contracts I put up I didn't include Lebron or Durant either, nor did I include guys like Eric Gordon. It was more of a comparison for relevant Value. Unless you meen somethign else.

My overall takeaway on Neil isn't that he's some great world class GM, I just don't think he's fire worthy as of yet.

EXACTLY THIS!!!!

 

[Minstrel]

It was use it or lose it. CJ's contract extension would have kicked in and used it all

As I said, it wasn't "use it or lose it" because the important line(s) are the luxury tax line and the "apron line." Portland would have more space under both lines if they hadn't signed Turner and would still have the capability to use that space, for re-signing their own players.

 

[chzbrgr]

And then in 2 years when they dont do much, you will want them gone too.

Let's compare Neil to one of his contemporaries who started at a similar time and situation: Toronto's Masai Ujiri.

Neil 2012-Present
Masai 2013-Present

Both have stellar back courts who drive the offense. Both markets are smaller markets as far as the NBA is concerned. Both have actively involved ownership.
Which supporting cast roster would you rather have? Toronto's or Portland's? Which of the two executives would you say had more success targeting and signing free agents? Neil or Masai.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Let's compare Neil to one of his contemporaries who started at a similar time and situation: Toronto's Masai Ujiri.

Neil 2012-Present
Masai 2013-Present

Both have stellar back courts who drive the offense. Both markets are smaller markets as far as the NBA is concerned. Both have actively involved ownership.
Which supporting cast roster would you rather have? Toronto's or Portland's? Which of the two executives would you say had more success targeting and signing free agents? Neil or Masai.

Honestly, I think I would still rather have our team over theirs. As far as who has made better moves, I don't know what Masai has done vs what fell in his lap. Id have to check that out first, but im willing to say without knowing it would probably be Masai.

But now here is the catch. How do you get him to leave Toronto and come here?

 

[AFully22]

Dude, have you read my posts? I've said this from the get go. I didnt use it as a copout. Go back and read the thread.

I actually dont care for Olshey. He is a little too used car salesman for me... with that said Im not into making changes for change sake. Have a plan. have a proven upgrade. Not take a chance on a possible upgrade, which is what NO is under the gun for with the contracts to Meyers and Turner. He banked on them getting better. Now you are banking on some unknown to do better.

Sorry, not good enough for me.

So you don’t like Olshey, don’t wanna take a chance on a top up and coming executive, and don’t think we can lure away a current GM. Have you ever heard of the saying don’t come to me with a problem unless you have a solution?

This is the exact type of thinking I just can’t jive with. When shit starts to get ugly you wait around and see if it will get any uglier.

 

[LayneStaley]

So you don’t like Olshey, don’t wanna take a chance on a top up and coming executive, and don’t think we can lure away a current GM. Have you ever heard of the saying don’t come to me with a problem unless you have a solution?

This is the exact type of thinking I just can’t jive with. When shit starts to get ugly you wait around and see if it will get any uglier.

I said this a few days ago, the solution is MONEY, you leak it to a couple agents that Paul Allen is willing to double or triple the current gm rate(which is 1-3mil) for one of the top guys and see which one is willing to resign or force their way out. If Allen really wanted a Danny Ainge or Masai he could buy one.

 

[tester551]

Let's compare Neil to one of his contemporaries who started at a similar time and situation: Toronto's Masai Ujiri.

Neil 2012-Present
Masai 2013-Present

Both have stellar back courts who drive the offense. Both markets are smaller markets as far as the NBA is concerned. Both have actively involved ownership.
Which supporting cast roster would you rather have? Toronto's or Portland's? Which of the two executives would you say had more success targeting and signing free agents? Neil or Masai.

Masai.... and it's not even remotely close.

I'm also very impressed with Casey. Previously the Raptors played a very ball dominant, isolated style. This year they are passing more & much more of a cohesive team. I wish I could say the same about Portland

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Let's compare Neil to one of his contemporaries who started at a similar time and situation: Toronto's Masai Ujiri.

Neil 2012-Present
Masai 2013-Present

Both have stellar back courts who drive the offense. Both markets are smaller markets as far as the NBA is concerned. Both have actively involved ownership.
Which supporting cast roster would you rather have? Toronto's or Portland's? Which of the two executives would you say had more success targeting and signing free agents? Neil or Masai.

In fairness, Masai has the advantage of working in a city with a much stronger Turkish community.

 

[Orion Bailey]

So you don’t like Olshey, don’t wanna take a chance on a top up and coming executive, and don’t think we can lure away a current GM. Have you ever heard of the saying don’t come to me with a problem unless you have a solution?

This is the exact type of thinking I just can’t jive with. When shit starts to get ugly you wait around and see if it will get any uglier.

No, I believe in giving a five year plan at least four before saying it’s a failure. ALOT can happen in two years.

These things take time. Roster was completely different three years ago.

The difference between you and I is you think the shit is a lot uglier than I do.

 

[tester551]

No, I believe in giving a five year plan at least four before saying it’s a failure. ALOT can happen in two years.

These things take time. Roster was completely different three years ago.

The difference between you and I is you think the shit is a lot uglier than I do.

He's had 5.5 years already.

We've been overly patient with him. You want to give him another two years to 'work his magic'.

I'm looking at his tenure here, and haven't been that impressed. Looking at the potion the team is in going into this summer - there will not be a lot of options for improvement.

One thing I've learned, is when something isn't working right it's best to address the issue sooner than to let it keep festering.

It doesn't matter how 'ugly' things are. The question is 'How confident are you that NO can advance the team forward'? On a scale of 1-10, I'd give him a 3.

 

[Orion Bailey]

He's had 5.5 years already.

We've been overly patient with him. You want to give him another two years to 'work his magic'.

I'm looking at his tenure here, and haven't been that impressed. Looking at the potion the team is in going into this summer - there will not be a lot of options for improvement.

One thing I've learned, is when something isn't working right it's best to address the issue sooner than to let it keep festering.

It doesn't matter how 'ugly' things are. The question is 'How confident are you that NO can advance the team forward'? On a scale of 1-10, I'd give him a 3.

He has had three years since lma left and the rebuild began. Be real or leave me out of the convo. Come on now.

 

[Orion Bailey]

He's had 5.5 years already.

We've been overly patient with him. You want to give him another two years to 'work his magic'.

I'm looking at his tenure here, and haven't been that impressed. Looking at the potion the team is in going into this summer - there will not be a lot of options for improvement.

One thing I've learned, is when something isn't working right it's best to address the issue sooner than to let it keep festering.

It doesn't matter how 'ugly' things are. The question is 'How confident are you that NO can advance the team forward'? On a scale of 1-10, I'd give him a 3.

I’d give him a 6.
We disagree. Get over it.

 

[AFully22]

He's had 5.5 years already.

We've been overly patient with him. You want to give him another two years to 'work his magic'.

I'm looking at his tenure here, and haven't been that impressed. Looking at the potion the team is in going into this summer - there will not be a lot of options for improvement.

One thing I've learned, is when something isn't working right it's best to address the issue sooner than to let it keep festering.

It doesn't matter how 'ugly' things are. The question is 'How confident are you that NO can advance the team forward'? On a scale of 1-10, I'd give him a 3.

But it’s a 5 year rebuild bro didn’t you know!! Even though he wouldn’t call it a rebuild in year 1 then spent money on the team like it was a contender and also said with Aminu at the 4 we project as a 54 win team and blah blah blah.

Some just have a higher tolerance for bull shit I guess.

 

[tester551]

He has had three years since lma left and the rebuild began. Be real or leave me out of the convo. Come on now.

My point is he's been here long enough to know the trajectory of the team.
You like him, I think he's decidedly mediocre & it's time to move on